swipe/swoop to get more english

PaulM said:
It's even worse when you consider that this technique has been clearly discredited in this thread, yet there are those that still hold onto the concept.
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Hilarious! Discredited by whom? Where? When? I didn't see that occurring anywhere in this thread. Maybe in word, but not in deed. Just a lot of opinions on both sides is all I see.

You know, you came on here a very short while ago with a gazilion questions, like the instructors really need to cater to all of your specific queries in a very short time span. How rude and self-important is that? Now, a few months later, you apparently never need ask questions here because it's clear you know it all.

For the record, a lot a past champions used the swoop stoke at times. Even Mosconi swooped when he saw the need. Now, when you can run 527 balls without missing and become the new king of pool, we'll all be sitting at the computer awaiting your next words of wisdom. In the meantime, why don't you go to the table and give this an honest try for a couple hundred strokes before you come back here with all your pontificating. You just might be surprised.;)
 
pleforowicz said:
Any thoughts of working with Al Pacino for these 3 weeks? Just curious, as he has always been my favourite actor.
Regards.
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I found Al to be the consummate pro. He was a gentleman and respectful at all times, and a real down-to-earth guy --- not at all full of himself, even though they treated him like royalty on the set. My job was to trail Al for three weeks. Wherever he went, I went. Not such a bad thing to do. When he was called to the set, that meant me as well.

He is a very intense actor and takes his craft very seriously. He wanted to know every little nuance about moving around the pool table --- Not just shooting, but how a player walks and chalks, and sights a shot.

I created the trick shot used for the movie where both the cue ball and object ball were placed on the chalk. I was really pleased to find that it became one of the popular posters used for the film.
 
"Tuck & roll" is kinda like a mini-swoop with a twist, isn't it?

How'd that tuck & roll work out for the great Buddy Hall? :)

If Buddy was kidding himself with tuck & roll, I sure would love to know how to use that illusion -- arguably the best cue ball ever!

I appreciate what the JAX experiment did for our understanding of the physics of pool. If I'm wrong in thinking a Buddy Hall puts a more complex (or at least a more realistic) stroke on the ball than the JAX, I can live with my mistake.
 
FranCrimi said:
I am... I... I've...
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You have an impressive resume, no doubt about that.

One has to still wonder why can't you justify the things you post here when they are counter to positions that are justified with clear and convincing arguments?

FranCrimi said:
Why don't you stop blaming us for your inability to shoot straight and spend some decent time practicing?
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Can you back up this statement? When have I blamed anyone for how I shoot? You have never seen me shoot, so how can you say I don't shoot straight. How can you suggest that I need to spend decent time practicing when you have no Idea how much time in a week I practice? Who's on that high horse?
 
PaulM said:
You have an impressive resume, no doubt about that.

One has to still wonder why can't you justify the things you post here when they are counter to positions that are justified with clear and convincing arguments?



Can you back up this statement? When have I blamed anyone for how I shoot? You have never seen me shoot, so how can you say I don't shoot straight. How can you suggest that I need to spend decent time practicing when you have no Idea how much time in a week I practice? Who's on that high horse?
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Unlike you, Paul, I have a history of information that I draw from when I post something here. I shared a little bit of my history with you here. There is much, much more behind that.

I hope that someday you will learn the important lesson that not everything can be quantified at the moment in time that you require it. I explained to you before that there are things yet to be discovered about this game.

As for your level of play, it was you who classified your level, not me. And yes, you are acting like a whiny baby. Your lack of maturity is displayed in your wanting the perfect information for yourself so that you don't have to endure the uncomfortable experience of trying something and finding out that you need to go back to square one.

That's what it's all about, Paul. That's the beauty of the learning experience, and if you're not up for that then you may as well quit life. So go and learn, and the best advice I can offer you is to not limit yourself to charts and graphs.
 
MitchDAZB said:
"Tuck & roll" is kinda like a mini-swoop with a twist, isn't it?

How'd that tuck & roll work out for the great Buddy Hall? :)

If Buddy was kidding himself with tuck & roll, I sure would love to know how to use that illusion -- arguably the best cue ball ever!

I appreciate what the JAX experiment did for our understanding of the physics of pool. If I'm wrong in thinking a Buddy Hall puts a more complex (or at least a more realistic) stroke on the ball than the JAX, I can live with my mistake.
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Great point. Yes, I think you're right about Buddy. Earl Strickland swoops the ball also. Earl's swoop is very pronounced.
 
Man...I just spent the better part of three years getting rid of my swoop, too!! :mad: I still sometimes do it on stroke shots, and it seems to work. But I don't pretend to know why or if it's really true or just voodoo. I will say an open mind is a terrible thing to waste, though. :wink:
 
would most agree to this statement or not??
1)the swoopers are changing the angle of the cue to the cue ball at some point before contact even tho they think its all happenning at contact???
2)if you lined up on that angle line or got on that angle line with bhe or fhe and stroked straight you would get the same amount of english on the cue bal??
assuming the contact point on the cue ball is the same
 
bbb said:
would most agree to this statement or not??
1)the swoopers are changing the angle of the cue to the cue ball at some point before contact even tho they think its all happenning at contact???
2)if you lined up on that angle line or got on that angle line with bhe or fhe and stroked straight you would get the same amount of english on the cue bal??
assuming the contact point on the cue ball is the same
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I agree, and I will add that some on here still think the OP was talking about swooping the cue all the way to the cb, because that is all they respond to in this thread. He wasn't, he asked a very specific question about swiping. And, I will go to my grave saying it can't be done except very rarely and by accident. And, when it is done, it will have no effect on the amount of spin added because the dwell time will barely be changed at all.
 
bbb said:
would most agree to this statement or not??
1)the swoopers are changing the angle of the cue to the cue ball at some point before contact even tho they think its all happenning at contact???
2)if you lined up on that angle line or got on that angle line with bhe or fhe and stroked straight you would get the same amount of english on the cue bal??
assuming the contact point on the cue ball is the same
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It is impossible for anyone to say what most swoopers think.

Number 2 is probably fairly accurate. There has never been a demonstration that swoop helps in spite of hitting the same place on the cue ball to the best of my knowledge.
 
FranCrimi said:
You're a C player and you get up on your high horse?? WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE! Well, heck, you can't even get out of your own way on a pool table and you stand there in judgement of us all. How pathetic.

I am the former President of the WPBA, a recipient of the BCA President's award, a former touring pro on the WPBA tour for a couple of decades, and particularly when we had one tournament per month, living out of a suitcase, traveling around the country and playing day and night. I was ranked in the top 16 for several years and have had several top 10 tournament finishes, including a second place finish. And that's just on the pro tour. I've won many regional and local events over the years.

I have trained several of the instructors of the PBIA, some may have crossed your path and met with your 'high' standards.

I have trained actors for feature films and choreographed sequences for famous films such as 'Carlito's Way' and worked day and night for three weeks with Al Pacino.

I have taught probably about a thousand or more players over the years.

I was the North American representative and Executive Board Member of the World Pool Billiard Associaion for 4 years.

So what have you done for our industry lately, other than falsely accusing accomplished individuals of selling snake oil?

If you are the type who has an obsessive need to see documented proof for everything you see and do, then fine, that's your thing, but realize that is YOUR limitation and not the limitations of others.

Now please crawl back in the smelly hole you crawled out of.

Oh, and here's a novel idea: Why don't you stop blaming us for your inability to shoot straight and spend some decent time practicing? And start acting like an adult and take responsibilty for your own game.
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Yikes, that's a bit strong. Any particular reason?
 
FranCrimi said:
Yup. He previously accused me of selling snake oil. Setting him straight was in order.
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Your disrespectful outburst has only shown your true character, and it's not the professional one your resume suggests. It reminded me of Oz behind the curtain.

The way to show that you, or anyone for that matter, isn't selling snake oil, is to provide something of substance that supports your statements. That's not unreasonable to ask that of anyone. Please feel free to do so, to remove any appearance of you as a snake oil salesman that you may have.

I'm sure you and others here have a lot to offer a student, but there is a lot of BS here and students have every right to question statements made here. Instructors, especially Master Instructors, should be providing solid, proven information, and be able to back it up. To do otherwise doesn't help the student, the sport, this forum, or themselves.
 
since i didnt get a responce directly i asked fran via pm her opinion
to my question
her responce
dont know
i expected more


Re: your answer please - Today, 08:13 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...5&postcount=71
thanks
larry landsman (bbb)

Don't know.
 
Swooping or SWIPING can likely enhance the probability of pocketing an extreme spin shot......I think I just watched this....

If not why would an advocate of "straight through the cue ball" for extreme spin shots show a swiping technique of sorts when executing a shot that requires terrific spin.

Could it be that math-type logic and camera analysis is one thing while the actual execution of such a demanding shot on a table is another?

Stan Shuffett
 
fran
for someone with your credentials
i expected more of an answer
im probably wrong to make public a pm
but im appalled at your responce
if im wrong
ill apologize
what do you all think??
 
stan shuffett said:
Swooping or SWIPING can likely enhance the probability of pocketing an extreme spin shot......I think I just watched this....

If not why would an advocate of "straight through the cue ball" for extreme spin shots show a swiping technique of sorts when executing a shot that requires terrific spin.

Could it be that math-type logic and camera analysis is one thing while the actual execution of such a demanding shot on a table is another?

Stan Shuffett
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The swooping technique it's a form of backhand English. Backhand English reduce squirt considerable. That's why those fast extreme spin shots (like the ones earl loves to warm up with) are done more precisely with swoop or backhand English.

I've tried to stay away from this argument. But the truth is that there is no conclusive evidence that swooping does or does not produce more spin than regular parallel English. I've see dr Dave's videos and read pretty much the whole archive from bob (several gems found there) but there are some fundamental issues with their test which makes the results not conclusive.
As a player I have tried all the methods, and use them all, different strokes for different shots, and when I have to load the cueball with tons of spin I always aim center then on my last stroke hit the cueball where intended.
 
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