swipe/swoop to get more english
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
occasionally they're "behind a tree" and it becomes a useful weapon.
It's like the "Duck Hook" in golf, players spend a lot of time to eliminate it, but occasionally they're "behind a tree" and it becomes a useful weapon.
Man...I just spent the better part of three years getting rid of my swoop, too!!I still sometimes do it on stroke shots, and it seems to work. But I don't pretend to know why or if it's really true or just voodoo. I will say an open mind is a terrible thing to waste, though. :wink:
It's like the "Duck Hook" in golf, players spend a lot of time to eliminate it, but occasionally they're "behind a tree" and it becomes a useful weapon.
Pathetic Shark
Banned
He is entitled to his opinion...
Yup, and she is entitled to set him straight about his opinion as well.
Again, you continue to demand answers from me when you want them. I thought we moved on from that. Apparently not. You guys are blowing things way out of proportion. Swooping exists--- top level players do it, some consistently. I don't know anything else about it. I have lots of questions and no answers, just speculation, and I have not seen any conclusive evidence in either direction but I'm intrigued and interested by the technique, especially because I use it myself at times. I'm keeping an open mind about it which is what I've been saying all along.
You guys went on the attack against me just because I didn't buy into the minimal studies done on it which were agreed here by all that they were inconclusive. Some of you made me the immediate bad guy here because I dared to dissent. Now others are stepping in and agreeing that it may be possible to gain more spin that way. Yet you continue to come after me.
It's time to lay off guys, and behave yourselves. Act like grown ups.
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fran
please dont lump me with anyone else
i asked a question via pm
that was not an attack
i didnt give you a deadline to answer
i wasnt looking for an answer when i want it
i just wanted your opinion
within your responce quoted you have answered my question
thaks for the reply...:thumbup:....:smile:
Pathetic Shark
Banned
She is indeed, although a proportional response is generally advisable.
I agree, I also thought she let the guy off too lightly. If someone started an entirely separate thread calling me a snake oil salesman, my idea of a "proportional response" might have included a lot of expletives. Fran's just too damn polite for her own good.
for example??
I thought it was a few weeks away.
It's a beautiful thing that we all agree on everything now, I knew this day would come, but I thought it was a few weeks away. :wink:
It's a beautiful thing that we all agree on everything now, I knew this day would come, but I thought it was a few weeks away. :wink:
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I learned about swiping the cue ball back in the 70s. I tried it, but didn't like it. When I need extreme side spin, I don't try to do it, but it naturally happens. I don't realize it until after the stroke. :grin-square: 
I'd like to see several top players, like Larry Nevel, who use this stroke, be filmed. A player that can execute this stroke would be a better candidate to demonstrate the technique.
Best,
Mike
I'd like to see several top players, like Larry Nevel, who use this stroke, be filmed. A player that can execute this stroke would be a better candidate to demonstrate the technique.
Best,
Mike
extreme english is rarely really needed to play the game, just for "showin off".
This is one thing that may be purely natural. I do it on some "trick shots," but I"m not sure how to explain it, it just happens. The reality is you don't need to do it, that type of extreme english is rarely really needed to play the game, just for "showin off".
"Even when I'm just showin off" Steve Mizerak - Lite Beer from Miller Commercial
CLICK PIC
I learned about swiping the cue ball back in the 70s. I tried it, but didn't like it. When I need extreme side spin, I don't try to do it, but it naturally happens. I don't realize it until after the stroke. :grin-square:
I'd like to see several top players, like Larry Nevel, who use this stroke, be filmed. A player that can execute this stroke would be a better candidate to demonstrate the technique.
Best,
Mike
This is one thing that may be purely natural. I do it on some "trick shots," but I"m not sure how to explain it, it just happens. The reality is you don't need to do it, that type of extreme english is rarely really needed to play the game, just for "showin off".
"Even when I'm just showin off" Steve Mizerak - Lite Beer from Miller Commercial
CLICK PIC
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Sorry to be showing up so late, but I didn't see this thread with the BU stuff keeping me busy. Here's my reply, after reading the entire thread:
This has been debated many times over many years and it is difficult to change people's opinions on this topic. Some people seem to feel really strong about the effectiveness of stroke swoop and won't accept any arguments that try to convince them otherwise. At some point, we just need to accept this reality. Stroke swoop does offer advantages to some people and in some situations; however, I think the explanations, videos, and illustrations on the stroke swoop resource page provide "proof" that stroke swoop isn't any better than a straight stroke in terms of its spin-generating capability.
Tom Ross was (before his medical "stroke") a great player and an excellent stroke swooper. He swooped his stroke on almost every shot with english. If you watch our VEPS DVDs or online clips, you will see this. He didn't do this because he thought it was better ... it was just the way he learned to apply english, probably from watching some great old-school players who did it that way. One day, we did a fairly long experiment trying to get more spin with a swooping stroke (with Tom doing all of the shooting) and we did not find a significant difference between straight and swooping strokes. Some of the highlights are in: NV B.34 - Using back-hand swoop to get maximum english.
Now, if you twist the cue with your wrist while you swoop the stroke, you can do amazing things with the cue ball. I haven't mastered this technique yet, but I am still able to get tremendous curving action on the cue ball. For demonstrations, see: NV B.33 - Back-hand swoop and twist ball-turn techniques.
Again, check out the explanations of both advantages and disadvantages of a stroking swoop on the stroke swoop resource page. I obviously think a straight stroke (with appropriate aiming corrections for squirt, swerve, and throw, done either intuitively or using methods like FHE/BHE) is much more accurate and consistent (with the same spin-generating capability) than a swooping stroke, but I also accept that some people will play better with a swooping stroke, especially if that's the way they've always done it.
Thank you for the entertaining thread,
Dave
Here is a related page on why it is difficult to change opinions. The bottom line is that it's important to get things right the first time.
http://www.dangreller.com/confirmation-bias-do-you-really-have-an-open-mind/
to be a better player we must all be willing to experiment, incorporate and utilize
Yes, you can certainly generate extra power/spin by snapping your wrist playing any game like tennis, golf, or pool....even in martial arts we are trained to twist the hand and foot for extra power and penetration in breaking.
Speaking of "breaking," this is a way for those of you that need extra power in your break......I advise cuing the ball TOI, then using the "twist" to create extra acceleration.....Wade Crane, one of the best all time breakers showed me this technique one year at the US Open and I finished 9th and hadn't played a tournament in 8 years.
Experiment with this technique on the break, you'll be glad you did. I believe to be a better player we must all be willing to experiment, incorporate and utilize new and better fundamentals and techniques. 'The Game is my Teacher'
Yes, you can certainly generate extra power/spin by snapping your wrist playing any game like tennis, golf, or pool....even in martial arts we are trained to twist the hand and foot for extra power and penetration in breaking.
Speaking of "breaking," this is a way for those of you that need extra power in your break......I advise cuing the ball TOI, then using the "twist" to create extra acceleration.....Wade Crane, one of the best all time breakers showed me this technique one year at the US Open and I finished 9th and hadn't played a tournament in 8 years.
Experiment with this technique on the break, you'll be glad you did. I believe to be a better player we must all be willing to experiment, incorporate and utilize new and better fundamentals and techniques. 'The Game is my Teacher'