My toi

[cool_hand_ljb]

I have been using toi since I got cjs dvd. I am a 9 in bca in a good area for pool. The last two weeks toi has really clicked for me, but it has taken a lot of work. I destroyed a 10 last week and a 9 this week and my confidence is growing. I will be a 10 soon I think, once I work out some of my position play(cj any advise would be helpful). But I feel I am very close, starting to run tables again.I wanted to post this not to brag but to tell you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I considered going back many times because I got frustrated with how I was playing. I am glad I didn't though because I see a lot more upside than I did spinning the cue. Good luck to all working on toi or any system, thanks cj for the system and thanks geno for helping me understand how the eyes work.

 

[LAMas]

I have been using toi since I got cjs dvd. I am a 9 in bca in a good area for pool. The last two weeks toi has really clicked for me, but it has taken a lot of work. I destroyed a 10 last week and a 9 this week and my confidence is growing. I will be a 10 soon I think, once I work out some of my position play(cj any advise would be helpful). But I feel I am very close, starting to run tables again.I wanted to post this not to brag but to tell you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I considered going back many times because I got frustrated with how I was playing. I am glad I didn't though because I see a lot more upside than I did spinning the cue. Good luck to all working on toi or any system, thanks cj for the system and thanks geno for helping me understand how the eyes work.

Spinning the cue [ball]?

 

[ln817]

Float that ball!

 

[cool_hand_ljb]

Exactly In817. Floating not spinning which makes the cue light, harder to predict. Floating makes it heavy easier to predict.

 

[8pack]

Exactly In817. Floating not spinning which makes the cue light, harder to predict. Floating makes it heavy easier to predict.

Not really.Just like TOI touch of outside plays with the same rules just in a different way.If we both pocket balls well, who is to say which is better.
Toi does apply to some shots when needed just as TOO does but to say ones easier to predict is just your lack of practicing.(Our)

Anthony

 

[victorl]

On the surface, TOI and TOO may seem the same but the predictability and speed control (along with several other benefits)you can get with TOI gives it a huge advantage over using outside. Everything changes once you've experienced the perfect "floating" cue ball that TOI players know and love.

 

[cool_hand_ljb]

well said victorl

Those of us that understand know the difference, and those that cannot open their minds will never grow. I know the difference and I like it.

 

[West Point 1987]

On the surface, TOI and TOO may seem the same but the predictability and speed control (along with several other benefits)you can get with TOI gives it a huge advantage over using outside. Everything changes once you've experienced the perfect "floating" cue ball that TOI players know and love.

Yep! Well said! Those that haven't tried this yet, please understand you can still spin the CB with outside when you need to...you just do it from the TOI position, back hand English to center CB or a shade outside, and voila! Just think of TOI as your "new center CB". But you'll also see you really don't need to rely on spinning the CB around the table nearly as much as you think you do. This really surprised me, and I've been playing a LONG time. :thumbup:

 

[Mitchxout]

Yep! Well said! Those that haven't tried this yet, please understand you can still spin the CB with outside when you need to...you just do it from the TOI position, back hand English to center CB or a shade outside, and voila! Just think of TOI as your "new center CB". But you'll also see you really don't need to rely on spinning the CB around the table nearly as much as you think you do. This really surprised me, and I've been playing a LONG time. :thumbup:

Centerball will get you around the table without spin but sometimes it causes "bad contact." When using TOI this never happens. I wish I could explain it better, sorry. All I can say is, TOI is for real, the balls go in alot cleaner than centerball.

 

[ps611846]

Centerball will get you around the table without spin but sometimes it causes "bad contact." When using TOI this never happens. I wish I could explain it better, sorry. All I can say is, TOI is for real, the balls go in alot cleaner than centerball.

Balls go in clean no matter if you use TOI, Pro one or other "pivot systems". I believe this has to do with "throw". But not "spin induced throw"...............

 

[Mitchxout]

Balls go in clean no matter if you use TOI, Pro one or other "pivot systems". I believe this has to do with "throw". But not "spin induced throw"...............

It has to do with collision induced throw (CIT). My point is, CIT with centerball can be unpredictable. TOI, don't ask me how, makes a cleaner, more predictable hit on the object ball. Where's CJ when you need him?

 

[8pack]

On the surface, TOI and TOO may seem the same but the predictability and speed control (along with several other benefits)you can get with TOI gives it a huge advantage over using outside. Everything changes once you've experienced the perfect "floating" cue ball that TOI players know and love.

Again its just ones lack of practice.:wink:

There are common sence rules to cb direction after contact with ob for desired shape.
We can bend on these rules but we still must have something in common to run the table.Your floating cb gives you know advantage in any area except shots that require a similar hit.We still must build a connection to the shot and ones preference is just that,his preference(are cb must still take a similar route)

What is your huge advantage?

Anthony

 

[victorl]

What is your huge advantage?

Anthony

From my experiece, although many others say the same thing:

-Shots pocket more smoothly, especially along the rail.
-Cue ball floats into position
-Shots are hit firmer, but with more control
-Contact induced spin is eliminated and the cue ball rebounds off the rails at perfect angles

With TOI, you are eliminating cue ball spin, which can't be done with outside.

That's all I'm going to say, though. You can try to discredit it all you want and you're not the first to try, but you're just wasting your time, as there are plenty of very good players and instructors here who have worked with TOI and see the value in it.
Cheers and good luck with your game.

Vic

 

[8pack]

From my experiece, although many others say the same thing:

-Shots pocket more smoothly, especially along the rail.
-Cue ball floats into position
-Shots are hit firmer, but with more control
-Contact induced spin is eliminated and the cue ball rebounds off the rails at perfect angles

With TOI, you are eliminating cue ball spin, which can't be done with outside.

That's all I'm going to say, though. You can try to discredit it all you want and you're not the first to try, but you're just wasting your time, as there are plenty of very good players and instructors here who have worked with TOI and see the value in it.
Cheers and good luck with your game.

Vic

Not trying to discredit anything just saying its just a matter of preference .I get that it is easy to undercut a shot and go just a tad bit inside to create a thinner cut,not a bad ideal on certain type of shots.
Toi ,TOO,or any other thing you do, you still need to build the connection to make it work.(everything we do, we must do it enough to trust it)

Good luck to your game also.

Anthony

 

[CJ Wiley]

The answer with golf, tennis and pool is to force the ball off course

It has to do with collision induced throw (CIT). My point is, CIT with centerball can be unpredictable. TOI, don't ask me how, makes a cleaner, more predictable hit on the object ball. Where's CJ when you need him?

The thing about hitting the "center" of the ball is it's very difficult to do, just like hitting a perfectly straight golf ball or tennis ball is also difficult. The answer with golf, tennis and pool is to force the ball off course slightly (tennis and golf use spin and in pool we use spin/deflection) and create a "zone" which can also increase your margin of error. If you try to hit center and miss a ball you won't have the feedback to understand immediately if you miss hit the cue ball or not...this feedback will be there for you when you favor one side of the cue ball because you shouldn't be able to hit either side....which reduces a big veritable.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Your points are all very accurate. It's easy to tell

From my experience, although many others say the same thing:

-Shots pocket more smoothly, especially along the rail.
-Cue ball floats into position
-Shots are hit firmer, but with more control
-Contact induced spin is eliminated and the cue ball rebounds off the rails at perfect angles

With TOI, you are eliminating cue ball spin, which can't be done with outside.

That's all I'm going to say, though. You can try to discredit it all you want and you're not the first to try, but you're just wasting your time, as there are plenty of very good players and instructors here who have worked with TOI and see the value in it.
Cheers and good luck with your game.

Vic

Your points are all very accurate. It's easy to tell who actually has used the TOI for a few hours and who hasn't.

TOI is not some kind of "magic" or "opinion," it's just as effective as using topspin in tennis or a "draw" or "fade" in golf. Our minds don't except straight lines as well as "zones" in sports and games. All balls we have ever thrown or caught had some kind of curve or arch to them, and it's deeply ingrained in our subconscious. You can either learn how to make this an advantage or not, it's entirely up to the individual.

Thanks, Vic, your foundation of TOI is solid and should lead to some great games in the future......CJ

 

[victorl]

Thanks CJ, it means a lot coming from you.
It's still a work in progess, but I feel like I'm on my way there!

 

[CJ Wiley]

words are not that convincing, but experience often is

Thanks CJ, it means a lot coming from you.
It's still a work in progess, but I feel like I'm on my way there!

Hey, we've all been a "work in progress" and the "work" is a journey, not a destination.

One thing I recommend is experimenting with different techniques to learn what works and what doesn't for your own personal game. Set up a shot and hit it with "center," then "inside," then "outside english," and see what the results are. This will teach you how the cue ball moves after strike, and will enable more awareness of tip/cue ball contact and the different feel feedback in your hand.

This will also allow you to develop your own opinion on favoring a certain side of the cue ball for consistency. No matter how many times myself or another Pro talks about the advantages, it's still up to the individual to experience it firsthand.....words are not that convincing, but experience often is, especially when they align and you sense immediate improvement. 'The Game is the Teacher'