Was Tunica a success?

[fathomblue]

I honestly think an easy way for struggling pro's to offset expenses is to make themselves available to amateurs. As in:

Find a roommate for the event. Splitting the hotel costs offsets $380 for the full, 10-day Tunica package right there. As an amateur, I did that in 2012 in Tunica. It helped the guy's expenses out. I didn't nut-hug too much, but I got the chance to drink a beer and talk pool here and there. Learned thru osmosis. Got him to the table and he showed me 3-4 things, just in 15 minutes, that have stuck with me to this day.

Then, if they give some lessons to amateurs here and there, they could break even or better for the whole she-bang.

I paid a different pro last year $125 to spend 2 hours with me working on things. I even took him to a $25 dinner once to pick his brain a bit more.

Basically, with a single 2-hour lesson.....plus throwing him a nice dinner, the guy got his meals covered for about 5-6 days (that's $25 a day or $12.50 a meal, based on the fact that I generally ate twice a day there). I learned some things, so it was worth it to me. If a player did just 1 lesson a day at that event, they'd probably be money ahead by the time it was over, even if they didn't cash.

Now, if a pro or super strong amateur doesn't want to associate with players lower on the totem pole, then that's their choice. They either need to find a day job that pays their pool expenses (like us regular folk do) or get a corporate sponsor.

If they're not a good teacher.......find another pro or instructor who IS good at teaching and say........"Show me how to be a good instructor. I have things that I don't mind sharing with people, but I just don't know how to articulate or present it."

Now, if a pro is going to blow their wad in the casino, on hookers, eat steak twice a day, lose in bad match-up games.......then I have no sympathy for them.

I understand that there are these similiarities between amateurs and pro's at an event:

Hotel, food, transportation, entry fees. Those are the basics. You travel to an event. You get shelter. You get food. You compete in the event. ANYTHING else is frivilous and needs to be done within a budget based on THAT overall event and FUTURE ones.

The difference between the pro and the amateur is that when I go to work......I'm guaranteed a check. The pro is not. HOWEVER, I also have to work 50 hours a week at a job that I don't even like, just so I can play in my state pool league and a couple of big Open events a year.

I don't know any pro's, Shane included, that put 50 hours a week in playing pool. I asked Shane himself, in Tunica, how much he practices a day. He said 7-8 hours. I suppose if that were truly 7 days a week, then yes, he puts in over 50 hours. I know he also works out to increase performance and stamina for his pool career. You could even factor that in. Seems to me that he's doing it the right way. And guess what? Shane is at the top.

So, as a summation, and I can't even remember how this started, a pro should:

Put in an hour a day exercising.
Let's say 5 hours a day practicing.
2 hours a day giving lessons.

Boom, you have a nice 8 hour day.

Then they spend a couple of hours a day matching up/playing in tournaments.......which is where the rubber hits the road. They gamble only as much as they can afford to lose. They work their ass off to cash in the tourney.

I know it's the competitive nature of a pool player to live on the edge, but there's a price to be paid for living on that edge. It's called comfort and security. They push the envelope probably when they shouldn't and that allows them to have higher highs than most, but also lower lows.

But, with a budget and lifestyle managed correctly, a pro should be able to survive as well as any of us working stiffs.

 

[Diamond69]

Now, if a pro is going to blow their wad in the casino, on hookers, eat steak twice a day, lose in bad match-up games.......then I have no sympathy for them.
.

I saw the thread on the gambling and the bad match up games.

Couldn't find the one with hookers and steak!! Is my search feature broken?? Me LOVES a good hooker and steak story!!!

 

[JCIN]

I honestly think an easy way for struggling pro's to offset expenses is to make themselves available to amateurs. As in:

Find a roommate for the event. Splitting the hotel costs offsets $380 for the full, 10-day Tunica package right there. As an amateur, I did that in 2012 in Tunica. It helped the guy's expenses out. I didn't nut-hug too much, but I got the chance to drink a beer and talk pool here and there. Learned thru osmosis. Got him to the table and he showed me 3-4 things, just in 15 minutes, that have stuck with me to this day.

Then, if they give some lessons to amateurs here and there, they could break even or better for the whole she-bang.

I paid a different pro last year $125 to spend 2 hours with me working on things. I even took him to a $25 dinner once to pick his brain a bit more.

Basically, with a single 2-hour lesson.....plus throwing him a nice dinner, the guy got his meals covered for about 5-6 days (that's $25 a day or $12.50 a meal, based on the fact that I generally ate twice a day there). I learned some things, so it was worth it to me. If a player did just 1 lesson a day at that event, they'd probably be money ahead by the time it was over, even if they didn't cash.

Now, if a pro or super strong amateur doesn't want to associate with players lower on the totem pole, then that's their choice. They either need to find a day job that pays their pool expenses (like us regular folk do) or get a corporate sponsor.

If they're not a good teacher.......find another pro or instructor who IS good at teaching and say........"Show me how to be a good instructor. I have things that I don't mind sharing with people, but I just don't know how to articulate or present it."

Now, if a pro is going to blow their wad in the casino, on hookers, eat steak twice a day, lose in bad match-up games.......then I have no sympathy for them.

I understand that there are these similiarities between amateurs and pro's at an event:

Hotel, food, transportation, entry fees. Those are the basics. You travel to an event. You get shelter. You get food. You compete in the event. ANYTHING else is frivilous and needs to be done within a budget based on THAT overall event and FUTURE ones.

The difference between the pro and the amateur is that when I go to work......I'm guaranteed a check. The pro is not. HOWEVER, I also have to work 50 hours a week at a job that I don't even like, just so I can play in my state pool league and a couple of big Open events a year.

I don't know any pro's, Shane included, that put 50 hours a week in playing pool. I asked Shane himself, in Tunica, how much he practices a day. He said 7-8 hours. I suppose if that were truly 7 days a week, then yes, he puts in over 50 hours. I know he also works out to increase performance and stamina for his pool career. You could even factor that in. Seems to me that he's doing it the right way. And guess what? Shane is at the top.

So, as a summation, and I can't even remember how this started, a pro should:

Put in an hour a day exercising.
Let's say 5 hours a day practicing.
2 hours a day giving lessons.

Boom, you have a nice 8 hour day.

Then they spend a couple of hours a day matching up/playing in tournaments.......which is where the rubber hits the road. They gamble only as much as they can afford to lose. They work their ass off to cash in the tourney.

So what you are saying is that a professional pool player should treat playing pool as a profession?

Hell of a thought isn't it?

I agree there are many things a smart motivated player can do to improve his chances at making money. The ones who do often do not get the credit they deserve. Off the top of my head I can name Oscar, Neils, Ralf and Thorsten among others who approach the game as a job and make decisions accordingly. Mike Dechaine has a good outlook on how to do things and create opportunities for himself. (Even if he pisses people off sometimes in the delivery )

I once got into it with a top pro when he started complaining about not making any money in pool. I told him it wouldnt matter if he was winning 100K at a time instead of 10K. He would just bet higher and spend more. What you make is only part of the equation. What you do with it is the important part.

What you said sums it up perfectly when I hear certain guys complaining about expenses:

"Now, if a pro is going to blow their wad in the casino, on hookers, eat steak twice a day, lose in bad match-up games.......then I have no sympathy for them".

 

[denzy]

Tunica couldnt have been a success. Last year Justin Hall won 20,000 for the all around and this year they didnt payout the 20,000. Some of the other posts I have read bringing up things from over 5 years ago that may or may not have happened is childish.

 

[Eric.]

As long as there's no nipples.

OH no she d'int....


Eric >uh yes, she did

 

[fathomblue]

So what you are saying is that a professional pool player should treat playing pool as a profession?

Hell of a thought isn't it?

I agree there are many things a smart motivated player can do to improve his chances at making money. The ones who do often do not get the credit they deserve. Off the top of my head I can name Oscar, Neils, Ralf and Thorsten among others who approach the game as a job and make decisions accordingly. Mike Dechaine has a good outlook on how to do things and create opportunities for himself. (Even if he pisses people off sometimes in the delivery )

I once got into it with a top pro when he started complaining about not making any money in pool. I told him it wouldnt matter if he was winning 100K at a time instead of 10K. He would just bet higher and spend more. What you make is only part of the equation. What you do with it is the important part.

What you said sums it up perfectly when I hear certain guys complaining about expenses:

"Now, if a pro is going to blow their wad in the casino, on hookers, eat steak twice a day, lose in bad match-up games.......then I have no sympathy for them".

So, I'm not alone in this thought? :thumbup:

You brought up some other lil things that would supplement their income. Such as Oscar being a table mechanic. It's still part of pool. You're around the table all the time. Learn how to repair them. Doesn't hurt to get your hands dirty with something besides chalk, right? Hell, who knows how a table is SUPPOSED to play better than a pro? Even if you don't want to do a full-blown table job, maybe you could re-stretch the cloth. Re-cover the bed. Level the tables. Something for a few bucks.

Offer up a challenge table. "I'll play any amateurs for $20/game in rotation. Along the way, you can ask any questions, allow me to critique any facets of your games, etc. If you win, you get your $20 back, gain some knowledge and post on FB that you beat (insert pro's name here). If you lose, I keep the $20, but you'll still have the knowledge and post on FB how you played me. Who's first?"

Ya know what? The entire time I was in Tunica, I never bet a thin dime in the casino. Walked past 10,000 machines and 1000 tables. I never called a hooker. I never had a steak (though I did spend $20 on a meal a couple of times).

I bet a single dinner against a strong amateur, who happens to be on this board, playing 1P on a 10-footer. I told him up front that I had no problem losing, I just wanted him to help me with my game and to play as hard as he could.......well, as hard as one could when only a simple dinner is on the line. Just answer any questions I had and point out bad AND good shot selection. I lost, but I learned. We went to dinner. I got off cheap, but I learned several very valuable lessons and methods about 1P and HAD FUN to boot. Thanks, Hippie, btw. :wink:

I also attempted to play 2 different pro's a race to 3 in Banks for $20. I told them up front that it was very cheap action, but that it was a guaranteed win for them. They both turned me down. One guy said he really didn't like Banks and it bored him. I can understand that. He offered me some 1P, but I told him that it was his specialty and that he would probably beat me in under 15 minutes and that I might not get anything out of it. It was also 6 a.m. Lol. In hindsight, I should have just played, because I think this guy would have showed me some things, even if it was just a 15 minute match at daybreak. Maybe next time.

The other pro politely said that it was 5 a.m. and he was just plain beat. And I could tell he was. He tried to steer me to another guy that I don't think is nearly as good, but I said that I really wanted to play HIM. He said that he understood, but he was just in no shape to play and didn't even have his cue with him at that time. Again, that situation was understandable, so I had no problem with it.

I do wonder what they would have said, if I had asked much earlier in the evening.

In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have been so shy about really cheap action when it was earlier in the night, but it took a lot of courage for me to even approach those guys and basically say, "Here's $20. Beat my brains out for a few minutes, but teach me something while you do it." (There's a few pro's that I know well enough that I wouldn't have been shy with, but even tho I had said hi to these guys before, I still didn't know how they'd react to such an offer).

And to be honest, if something apocalyptic had happened and I had beaten either of those guys.......they could have kept their $20 and I'd have given them $20 of mine, just for the experience and nuggets of knowledge gleaned.

The word "hustle" has several different meanings. I just wish more people knew the positive connotation.

 

[lfigueroa]

You can go on Facebook and read what Scott Frost today thinks about American promoters. :frown:

It has always been my opinion that many tournaments, such as the DCC, are built on the backs of amateurs who come out and support with little to no hope of finicial renumeration, and not the pros who just come to suck off the cream... and complain.

If the pros believe that it is such a hardship to play and succeed in such events, then the only logical conclusion a tournament promoter can come to is: increase support to the amateurs, who don't bee-atch, and come out year after year, and make it *even more attractive* for them to come out and support the event by paying out deeper into the field and reduce the payouts to the top slots.

Let the amateurs, who come out and suck up the expenses -- because they have real jobs -- have a decent chance at cashing and spread the wealth and payout. I know I would love to go three or four rounds deep and at least get my entry fee back.

Believe me, in a scenario like that, no one will miss the pros who choose to stay away and whine on FB..

Lou Figueroa

 

[wrickyb]

Wrong

Tunica couldnt have been a success. Last year Justin Hall won 20,000 for the all around and this year they didnt payout the 20,000. Some of the other posts I have read bringing up things from over 5 years ago that may or may not have happened is childish.

YOU ARE Wrong!

I spoke with Greg about not having the All Around this year. He indicated he did not want an All Around Champion aka King of The Table for every event. He wanted it to be a DCC item. Also the money for the All Around only helps 1 player so he took that money and put it into the Added money for the other events and the Big Foot event. Look at the Added Money from last year and this year. I know Greg also offered to Stake players for the entry fee (not your travel, hotel or food) and some players went that route and others that complained actual borrowed the entry because they didn't want to give up any winnings if there was any. Diamond worked with having the Ultimate 10 ball before there event so the Pro's could have 2 events for one travel. Keep in mind that no mater if you at an event or setting at home you eat some people more than others. Performance Fees to come play are not going to happen There is not that much in the Gate at these events or even Bonus Ball. Greg and Diamond are trying to grow a tour but it doesn't happen overnight and if the numbers are not there with the Casino it may never happen again.

 

[JCIN]

Tunica couldnt have been a success. Last year Justin Hall won 20,000 for the all around and this year they didnt payout the 20,000. Some of the other posts I have read bringing up things from over 5 years ago that may or may not have happened is childish.

Selling bootlegs of other peoples works is childish. I held the printed emails and list of titles in my hand. It was a well known thing among those who produce content. Just because everything isn't on AZ doesnt mean it didn't happen.

Also see the post above. That 20K was there it was distributed differently. How do I know this? Because I actually talked to the guy who created the event. Who did you talk to?

If they filled their room block, made the hotel happy and decided it is worth doing again it was a success. If not then IMO it was not. Unless you have access to that information saying it was one or the other at this point is foolish.

I realize knowing what you are talking about is optional on the internet but you might consider it.

 

[JAM]

About pros attending these week-long events, mixing it up with the recreational, social, amateur players, as well as railbirds, pool enthusiasts, and pool afficionados, that is kind of the point of the Derby City Classic, Tunica, and prospective Greg/Diamond happenings.

My opinion is that Greg may want to consider eliminating the pro-caliber tournaments because they are usually not a money-making venture for anyone, especially with the current sentiment by some -- not all -- pro players in Vegas today.

About Vegas, I have never, ever thought it was a good venue to host pro-caliber pool tournaments. I understand why, though, as there are more hospitality options available to promoters, making it financially attractive.

This quote is so true in pool: "Money won is sweeter than money earned." In pool, especially the gambling/action games, making money is an easy-come/easy-go kind of thing. You can be broke today and pumped up by nightfall if you can get played, match up well, and win. Being broke for some players is just a temporary inconvenience. Myself, as an example of a working stiff, if I'm broke, it takes me a long while to make enough money to be flush again.

Keith won $380,000-plus in Vegas playing pool and was broke a month later. :angry:

Some pool players that gamble do have control. I won't name names, but I am familiar with one player who made $280,000-plus last year in pool. He gambles, he plays in tournaments, and he knows how to hang onto his dough. :wink:

Bottom line, most pro players of today cannot, and do not, appreciate or understand the value of a dollar.

I wish Greg nothing but success in his future ventures. If anybody deserves accolades in this industry, it is him. My thoughts are that he should ditch the pro-player element of his events and see how it goes next year, if there is one.

 

[rivercitysledge]

.......................

 

[cardiac kid]

About pros attending these week-long events, mixing it up with the recreational, social, amateur players, as well as railbirds, pool enthusiasts, and pool afficionados, that is kind of the point of the Derby City Classic, Tunica, and prospective Greg/Diamond happenings.

My opinion is that Greg may want to consider eliminating the pro-caliber tournaments because they are usually not a money-making venture for anyone, especially with the current sentiment by some -- not all -- pro players in Vegas today.

About Vegas, I have never, ever thought it was a good venue to host pro-caliber pool tournaments. I understand why, though, as there are more hospitality options available to promoters, making it financially attractive.

This quote is so true in pool: "Money won is sweeter than money earned." In pool, especially the gambling/action games, making money is an easy-come/easy-go kind of thing. You can be broke today and pumped up by nightfall if you can get played, match up well, and win. Being broke for some players is just a temporary inconvenience. Myself, as an example of a working stiff, if I'm broke, it takes me a long while to make enough money to be flush again.

Keith won $380,000-plus in Vegas playing pool and was broke a month later. :angry:

Some pool players that gamble do have control. I won't name names, but I am familiar with one player who made $280,000-plus last year in pool. He gambles, he plays in tournaments, and he knows how to hang onto his dough. :wink:

Bottom line, most pro players of today cannot, and do not, appreciate or understand the value of a dollar.

I wish Greg nothing but success in his future ventures. If anybody deserves accolades in this industry, it is him. My thoughts are that he should ditch the pro-player element of his events and see how it goes next year, if there is one.

Jen,

Expect some flak from the "experts" on AZ. I trust your opinion on things pro pool more than some of the players themselves. Keith lived it. You lived it.

Greg and his family have done great things for the pool world. He deserves to be successful. Wish I was on better financial footing. Spending more than a week in Tunica or Louisville is just impossible for me to do by myself. Rochester's pool scene is just not what it used to be. Guess it has become a microcosm of the pool world in general!

Hope to see both of you at the Stone this year.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

It has always been my opinion that many tournaments, such as the DCC, are built on the backs of amateurs who come out and support with little to no hope of finicial renumeration, and not the pros who just come to suck off the cream... and complain.

If the pros believe that it is such a hardship to play and succeed in such events, then the only logical conclusion a tournament promoter can come to is: increase support to the amateurs, who don't bee-atch, and come out year after year, and make it *even more attractive* for them to come out and support the event by paying out deeper into the field and reduce the payouts to the top slots.

Let the amateurs, who come out and suck up the expenses -- because they have real jobs -- have a decent chance at cashing and spread the wealth and payout. I know I would love to go three or four rounds deep and at least get my entry fee back.

Believe me, in a scenario like that, no one will miss the pros who choose to stay away and whine on FB..

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

Guess great minds think alike . Been saying this for too long. 50 (or so) pro players versus half a million amateur players. Where do you think my loyalty is at?

Lyn

 

[denzy]

Selling bootlegs of other peoples works is childish. I held the printed emails and list of titles in my hand. It was a well known thing among those who produce content. Just because everything isn't on AZ doesnt mean it didn't happen.

Also see the post above. That 20K was there it was distributed differently. How do I know this? Because I actually talked to the guy who created the event. Who did you talk to?

If they filled their room block, made the hotel happy and decided it is worth doing again it was a success. If not then IMO it was not. Unless you have access to that information saying it was one or the other at this point is foolish.

I realize knowing what you are talking about is optional on the internet but you might consider it.

Being that you check out back rounds of people on the internet. Do you check out back rounds of the players on TAR ?

 

[JCIN]

Being that you check out back rounds of people on the internet. Do you check out back rounds of the players on TAR ?

Ohhhhh I see someone read Eric's thread and learned a new trick.

Whenever someone pops up talking out of their ass I like to look at their history to see if they are just having a bad day or if they have a track record of acting dumb. Its crazy I know.

As to TAR players you seem like you are really trying to imply something sinister but you are going to have to spell it out for me big fella.

By the way...the word you were looking for is "background".

 

[Woof Biscuit]

From the sound of it, a lot of players blew their dough in the casino. I'm sure that Harrah's is happy about that. So it was probably a success from their prospective.

 

[JCIN]

About pros attending these week-long events, mixing it up with the recreational, social, amateur players, as well as railbirds, pool enthusiasts, and pool afficionados, that is kind of the point of the Derby City Classic, Tunica, and prospective Greg/Diamond happenings.

My opinion is that Greg may want to consider eliminating the pro-caliber tournaments because they are usually not a money-making venture for anyone, especially with the current sentiment by some -- not all -- pro players in Vegas today.

About Vegas, I have never, ever thought it was a good venue to host pro-caliber pool tournaments. I understand why, though, as there are more hospitality options available to promoters, making it financially attractive.

This quote is so true in pool: "Money won is sweeter than money earned." In pool, especially the gambling/action games, making money is an easy-come/easy-go kind of thing. You can be broke today and pumped up by nightfall if you can get played, match up well, and win. Being broke for some players is just a temporary inconvenience. Myself, as an example of a working stiff, if I'm broke, it takes me a long while to make enough money to be flush again.

Keith won $380,000-plus in Vegas playing pool and was broke a month later. :angry:

Some pool players that gamble do have control. I won't name names, but I am familiar with one player who made $280,000-plus last year in pool. He gambles, he plays in tournaments, and he knows how to hang onto his dough. :wink:

Bottom line, most pro players of today cannot, and do not, appreciate or understand the value of a dollar.

I wish Greg nothing but success in his future ventures. If anybody deserves accolades in this industry, it is him. My thoughts are that he should ditch the pro-player element of his events and see how it goes next year, if there is one.

Lot of knowledge in that post.

Nicely done.

 

[cardiac kid]

From the sound of it, a lot of players blew their dough in the casino. I'm sure that Harrah's is happy about that. So it was probably a success from their prospective.

And that is exactly why Caesar's Corporate allows these events to happen. It will be interesting to see what happens at the Rio in two weeks.

Lyn

 

[denzy]

Ohhhhh I see someone read Eric's thread and learned a new trick.

Whenever someone pops up talking out of their ass I like to look at their history to see if they are just having a bad day or if they have a track record of acting dumb. Its crazy I know.

As to TAR players you seem like you are really trying to imply something sinister but you are going to have to spell it out for me big fella.

By the way...the word you were looking for is "background".

Justin not trying to be sinister maybe just consider it in the future.

 

[thewhiffer]

About pros attending these week-long events, mixing it up with the recreational, social, amateur players, as well as railbirds, pool enthusiasts, and pool afficionados, that is kind of the point of the Derby City Classic, Tunica, and prospective Greg/Diamond happenings.

My opinion is that Greg may want to consider eliminating the pro-caliber tournaments because they are usually not a money-making venture for anyone, especially with the current sentiment by some -- not all -- pro players in Vegas today.

About Vegas, I have never, ever thought it was a good venue to host pro-caliber pool tournaments. I understand why, though, as there are more hospitality options available to promoters, making it financially attractive.

This quote is so true in pool: "Money won is sweeter than money earned." In pool, especially the gambling/action games, making money is an easy-come/easy-go kind of thing. You can be broke today and pumped up by nightfall if you can get played, match up well, and win. Being broke for some players is just a temporary inconvenience. Myself, as an example of a working stiff, if I'm broke, it takes me a long while to make enough money to be flush again.

Keith won $380,000-plus in Vegas playing pool and was broke a month later. :angry:

Some pool players that gamble do have control. I won't name names, but I am familiar with one player who made $280,000-plus last year in pool. He gambles, he plays in tournaments, and he knows how to hang onto his dough. :wink:

Bottom line, most pro players of today cannot, and do not, appreciate or understand the value of a dollar.

I wish Greg nothing but success in his future ventures. If anybody deserves accolades in this industry, it is him. My thoughts are that he should ditch the pro-player element of his events and see how it goes next year, if there is one.

Well put, young lady, and be of good cheer, there will be a next year and it will be the best one ever.