Us open 10ball and 8ball

Lou and all others -

I will guarantee you they will roll straight.
They will bounce off each other just fine.
I would expect some minor differences in collision induced english (just like there is in the Super Pro and the newer Duramith balls).

The measle ball is not a mtched ball with the Super Pro and the measle ball is not matched to the Cyclop Balls.

The cyclop cue ball IS matched to the cyclop ball. We elected to stay with the measle ball for the 9' tables because it gives good feedback to the spectators and for future video viewing.

This is no difference than going to any other event. We try to minimize the differences in conditions. There are always differences; humidity, age of cloth etc. All the tables will be the same and all the balls will be the same.

I don't play much anymore - but I know how to 'read' the balls and their reactions. These play fine. I am not a fan of the measle ball but other than that, I expect no complaints after people get used to the different colors.

BTW - has anybody ever compared our equipment to that used in other league national championships? Granted - we are about the only ones that have additional 9' events along the amateurs, but on the 7' tables, I have seen balls from different sets at other events and people play their matches. We try to do better - so give us the chance.

Mark Griffin
 
Mark Griffin said:
I believe the event you are referring to was a recent regional event held at Snookers in Rhode Island. It was a handicap event.

It was in a pool room - and I am sure there was a good reason if they were changing cue balls. Often that is done so all tables use the same cue ball.

We have previously used the red circle - but it s NOT the ball that comes with any set of balls. I have always preferred the red circle but it seems the measle ball is gaining in popularity but it hardly qualifies as original cue ball. Everyone realizes that cue balls should be replaced every year or so, right? They wear much more than any other ball.

Before everyone gets their balls in an uproar lets just think about it. CSI has always considered the equipment quality more than any other league operation.

These balls have been tested and passed the test.
They play fine. The cue all weighs the same as every other all. The weight specs are excellent. The biggest difference will be discussions on the colors.

I am color blind so I stay out of that one. But I have never cared for the darkness of many pool balls and I cannot tell the balls number unless the light is very good.

I am not going to bad mouth Aramith balls- they have been the industry standard for many years. But now there is another option.

The only reason we use the measle ball on 9' tables is because of the audience. They give excellent feedback.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Mark, that cueball while good in quality, does NOT play well with others. Dechaine was playing at the table next to me and also commented about how the ball was acting weird with the Centennials they had at Snookers. It's a good idea in theory, but the cueball needs to be matched to the rest of the set. It was not just me that noticed that the cueball behaived different, every player I spoke with said that it was acting weird. It cost people games (myself included) because small draw shots turned into a stop shots, and I have seen several safety and position plays get messed up becase that changed cueball just pushed though the balls and bounced off rails more when follow was used.

It can't be just me that has noticed this, there are several cueballs that just don't work well due to whatever differences they have. I have seen the same type of thing with the Tournament ball set from Aramith, it's a noticiably tougher set to move the cueball in. Overall the specs on the balls are very good, they just don't react the same way. Going from the Centennials or the Pro Aramiths, you need about 20% more stoke to do the same thing with the Tournament set which is about how that other cueball acted. Another issue is that the cueball was only swapped out right when play began not first thing when the players had over an hour or practice.

I'm not bashing CSI or anyone else, I just think that the matched sets in a good room should be left alone, the cueball used should be what came in the set of balls used, or at least a replacement cueball that reacts the same way as the original one would.

While they are all made of the same material, from playing with several sets and weighing them, the difference must also be in how hard the plastic used is, not just the weight of the ball. Several cueballs weight exactly the same, or very very close, yet they play different. The only reason would be that the material used in them is more or less elastic in my thinking at least.
 
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Cyclop Billiard Balls

In my opinion the people that are complaining about the different balls are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We should be glad that we have a person like Mark that continues to keep investing and working hard for players to have a tournament to play in and don't have to worry about getting paid . The balls will make no difference to the true professionals (imo) . You could throw rocks on the table and these guys will figure it out.
The only ones that seem to be concerned are the ones that have no shot at winning anyway so why does it matter about the balls? Just be thankful you still have a person that has a well organized tournament.
 
railrider said:
In my opinion the people that are complaining about the different balls are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We should be glad that we have a person like Mark that continues to keep investing and working hard for players to have a tournament to play in and don't have to worry about getting paid . The balls will make no difference to the true professionals (imo) . You could throw rocks on the table and these guys will figure it out.
The only ones that seem to be concerned are the ones that have no shot at winning anyway so why does it matter about the balls? Just be thankful you still have a person that has a well organized tournament.
Click to expand...

The event I played in where the cueball was swapped out was NOT a pro event. I think the point is "don't mess with stuff that works". A cueball to make things even across the board is good, a cueball that replaces a matches set that is equal on all the tables is not good.

CSI is really what drives pool these days, TAR, CSI and that's about it. APA and the other leagues or groups do nothing for pro events that I could see. Bonus ball is their own thing, US Open is their own thing, CSI puts on several pro events, and some great leagues, and they are involved in Junior pool as well with having the Jr Nationals use the same tables as the Pro events in Vegas this month.
 
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hang-the-9 said:
Mark, that cueball while good in quality, does NOT play well with others. Dechaine was playing at the table next to me and also commented about how the ball was acting weird with the Centennials they had at Snookers. It's a good idea in theory, but the cueball needs to be matched to the rest of the set. It was not just me that noticed that the cueball behaived different, every player I spoke with said that it was acting weird. It cost people games (myself included) because small draw shots turned into a stop shots, and I have seen several safety and position plays get messed up becase that changed cueball just pushed though the balls and bounced off rails more when follow was used.

It can't be just me that has noticed this, there are several cueballs that just don't work well due to whatever differences they have. I have seen the same type of thing with the Tournament ball set from Aramith, it's a noticiably tougher set to move the cueball in. Overall the specs on the balls are very good, they just don't react the same way. Going from the Centennials or the Pro Aramiths, you need about 20% more stoke to do the same thing with the Tournament set which is about how that other cueball acted. Another issue is that the cueball was only swapped out right when play began not first thing when the players had over an hour or practice.

I'm not bashing CSI or anyone else, I just think that the matched sets in a good room should be left alone, the cueball used should be what came in the set of balls used, or at least a replacement cueball that reacts the same way as the original one would.

While they are all made of the same material, from playing with several sets and weighing them, the difference must also be in how hard the plastic used is, not just the weight of the ball. Several cueballs weight exactly the same, or very very close, yet they play different. The only reason would be that the material used in them is more or less elastic in my thinking at least.
Click to expand...


That last part about "elastically" is the coefficient of restitution, COR, I was talking about. It varies and can be a big deal. (Never a propeller-head around when you need one.)

From everything I've read, making pool balls is a tricky business. Yes, there's weight and diameter, but there are also issues related to the chemical properties of the materiel used; the manufacturing process that will produce bouncier or deader balls; the tolerances used to balance the balls (so they'll roll straight); and their finish, not only as an issue related to durability, and impact on the cloth, but how the balls react off each other and the rails.

No bashing here either. Just feeling a little dubious about this whole thing.

Lou Figueroa
doobie-doobbie-do
 
railrider said:
In my opinion the people that are complaining about the different balls are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We should be glad that we have a person like Mark that continues to keep investing and working hard for players to have a tournament to play in and don't have to worry about getting paid . The balls will make no difference to the true professionals (imo) . You could throw rocks on the table and these guys will figure it out.
The only ones that seem to be concerned are the ones that have no shot at winning anyway so why does it matter about the balls? Just be thankful you still have a person that has a well organized tournament.
Click to expand...


The promoters should be grateful they have the amateurs who "have no shot at winning" but still come out and support the events year after year. No amateurs = no events.

The promoters need them guys *far* more than the amateurs need them.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Bill is of course right. You could put lead weighted potatoes on a table and Bustamonte would say they are fine.

Can anyone imagine another sport having players show up for Open level events to be told they would be competing with completely alien equipment?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

You mean like golfers going to a new course?

Downhill skiers running a course during a snowfall?

Baseball players playing during the rain?

A field goal kicker kicking in blowing wind?

F1 race teams having to race on tires provided by an outside vendor that change during the year?

To start in on the whole "These balls are what is wrong with pool." before ever actually seeing them or using them is a bit premature but in no way surprising.
 
My guess is these cyclop balls can be purchased for a dollar two ninety five and play just about like the Aramith balls with the ever increasing price tag. That's just a guess but that's usually how it goes with the Chinese knock off products of all kinds.

JC
 
JC said:
My guess is these cyclop balls can be purchased for a dollar two ninety five and play just about like the Aramith balls with the ever increasing price tag. That's just a guess but that's usually how it goes with the Chinese knock off products of all kinds.

JC
Click to expand...

They look nothing like anything else. The only thing they possibly knocked off is that they ARE pool balls.

I'm not a big fan of Chinese stuff for the most part because they often do rip off others designs. Not the case here. The color way on these balls is very original. So much so I think it is too much for the very tradition oriented pool player in the US.

I'm sure Mark will take a tremendous amount of shit over it in the next three weeks. Because a vendor actually wanted to support his event by making a deal that is beneficial to it.
 
JCIN said:
They look nothing like anything else. The only thing they possibly knocked off is that they ARE pool balls.

I'm not a big fan of Chinese stuff for the most part because they often do rip off others designs. Not the case here. The color way on these balls is very original. So much so I think it is too much for the very tradition oriented pool player in the US.

I'm sure Mark will take a tremendous amount of shit over it in the next three weeks. Because a vendor actually wanted to support his event by making a deal that is beneficial to it.
Click to expand...

Do you have any pics of the balls?
 
rexus31 said:
Do you have any pics of the balls?
Click to expand...

I don't but if I have time later to go to the CSI office I will take some.

I don't like the colors but I believe they play like they are supposed to. I think there might be an issue with one of the balls blending a little too well with Simonis Tour Blue cloth but others have said they dont see it at all.

The color style is different enough from other sets that it will be a polarizing thing.
 
rexus31 said:
I'm only seeing a cueball in that link. Does anyone have any pics of the full set?
Click to expand...

That photo should rotate through three or four other photos in your browser. Here is the (small) photo of the whole set:
CyclopSet.jpg
 
Joe_Jaguar said:
That photo should rotate through three or four other photos in your browser. Here is the (small) photo of the whole set:
View attachment 283752
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting. For some reason, I couldn't change the pics on the site. I guess their site isn't Safari-friendly. From that pic, they look like a set of Aramith Super Pros. I don't see a color difference at all.
 
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Joe_Jaguar said:
That photo should rotate through three or four other photos in your browser. Here is the (small) photo of the whole set:
View attachment 283752
Click to expand...

Look identical to the Aramith Pro balls. If they use the full matched set, there would be no issues with a funky cue ball. Would love to see some tolerance specs and maybe measurements on those.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Look identical to the Aramith Pro balls. If they use the full matched set, there would be no issues with a funky cue ball. Would love to see some tolerance specs and maybe measurements on those.
Click to expand...

Those are not the balls.

This is making me nuts.

I am leaving to drive to the CSI office to take many photos of these balls and will post them today.
 
JCIN said:
Those are not the balls.

This is making me nuts.

I am leaving to drive to the CSI office to take many photos of these balls and will post them today.
Click to expand...

Save some of those, I'd like to see them when I get there with my son for Jr Nationals, the main CSI stuff will be over by then but I'm curious about them now hehe. I'll find you or Mark on the floor, although likely it will you first, you tend to stand over the crowd a bit hehe.
 
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