Who's job is it to call a shark move?

JC

JC

Coos Cues
BCA pool league. Player "A" scratches and leaves a combination on the ten ball. (ten ball is the game). Player "A" walks briskly away from the table and unscrews his stick and jams it in his case as this is the last game of the match. I'm not sure whether his opponent, player "B" noticed or not. The team captain observes this and tells his player, player "B" that the game is over and Player "A" has conceded and not to shoot the shot. The shot was easy but also easy to miss as are a lot of combinations. The ten was not a hanger.

Player "A" says it's out of line and the captain has no right to interfere in the game. The captain says it's a clear concession and needs to be called immediately. The entire team of player "A" left mad about this with no hand shakes.

This team of player "A" is involved in something like this BS week in and week out. At what point should the league take action? And what action?

Player "B" and the team captain in question are two of the three league officers which makes it extra sensitive.


JC
 
Only the players at the table can deal with fouls, since player A unscrewed and B didn't see it. I would guess that to tell player B about this would be ok since the guy left the table. Still just tell player B and let him handle it.

Question : Who was he sharking since his opponent was unaware of what he did.



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Lonestar_jim said:
Only the players at the table can deal with fouls, since player A unscrewed and B didn't see it. I would guess that to tell player B about this would be ok since the guy left the table. Still just tell player B and let him handle it.

Question : Who was he sharking since his opponent was unaware of what he did.
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I said I didn't know whether player "B" was aware of it or not. I know unscrewing is a move left over from the age of feeding the polar bears marshmallows at the zoo.

JC
 
DoubleD said:
One question:

Does everybody at the table agree that unscrewing the cue is a forfeit?

If so, then the game was already over when the captain said something. In the future, the captain should run over to his player, high-five him and congratulate him for winning instead of telling him not to shoot.

dld
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Doesn't matter if everybody agrees or not. Is clear in BCAPL rules that unscrewing your playing cue in the last game when your opponent is at the table is a concession.
 
DoubleD said:
One question:

Does everybody at the table agree that unscrewing the cue is a forfeit?

If so, then the game was already over when the captain said something. In the future, the captain should run over to his player, high-five him and congratulate him for winning instead of telling him not to shoot.

dld
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I don't think everyone agrees about that but it is the league rule. It's just some folks living in the past refuse to acknowledge that times have changed. Personally when I have it done to me I just leave the table and wait to see what happens next. Just this week in 9 ball league a guy on the other team kept throwing his cue down on the next table when the opponent got on the 8 ball. When he did it to me I just turned and offered my hand to him. To his credit he shook my hand and accepted the game was over. Maybe make him think next time about when to pull a move.

JC
 
So the consensus of us three is that anyone can call the concession (as I think yous guys are right).

It would be nice to get more concession rules added to the book, especially the ones that are shark moves.

It is funny though to watch pros unscrew their cue and then rush to put it back together.

I never really thought unscrewing was distracting as compared to throwing stuff around.

JC, I like what you did in your league match by offering your hand.

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JC said:
I know unscrewing is a move left over from the age of feeding the polar bears marshmallows at the zoo.
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Whew, I'm glad you mentioned this. We're headed to the zoo tomorrow and now I know not to take the marshmallows.

As for the unscrewing, I don't know what the rulebook says, but it seems to me that unscrewing means you forfeit or concede the game, and it doesn't matter who sees it.
 
In our local BCA league, only the player at the table, the captain, or the co-captain may call a foul/ forfeiture. Nobody else.

If both captain and co-captain must leave the area, they have to nominate a "watcher" and tell the other team's captain beforehand.

And the captain/ co-captain can explain a rule or call a foul, but they can't tell you if you're stripes/ solids, or coach in any way.
 
it wouldn't be coaching as the game ended the instant he broke his cue down.
 
If there is no coaching during the game then the player has to call it. The player at the table is the one who should ask if the other player is forfeiting or declare the forfeit. it's the shooter's responsibility to be aware of the rules.

The captain should stay out it.
 
Once your opponent breaks down their cue during your turn at the table the match is over... however --> I will always acknowledge the action with a handshake or saying good match to my opponent to be clear that I'm accepting their forfeit.

Don't leave any room for arguments.. players that pull moves won't cease to look for more opportunities.

The captain's involvement is irrelevant imo.

Dudley
 
The whole "whose job" thing is what's at the heart of those threads about "Should you call a foul on yourself".
The idea is, if no piece of paper says "it's this person's job" then people are left to guess,
so maybe the rule is no longer in effect, because we can't agree on which person enforces it.

If a player tries to make it their job, someone will say "But this paper doesn't say it's your job, so you have no right".
If a player refuses to make it their job, someone will say "Well the rule has to be enforced, so SOMEONE
needs to make it their job."

All this stuff is a red herring, distracting people away from simple reality.
There's a specific clearcut rule here. You unscrew, you forfeit.
There is no "asking if they forfeit". There is no "accepting their forfeit".
There is no "whose job it is it to formally acknowledge the forfeit."

It happened, it's done. The match is over. This is not a sharking foul, it's the end of the match.
No takebacks, no weaseling out on technicalities.
You can try to put your cue back together if you want, but the game is over.
You can shake hands or be pissy about it, but the game is over.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
We're in the gutter? How long have I been here?

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Only my mind is in the gutter... my pool game is just in the crapper. :)

To the OP, IMO I don't think it's anyone's "job". The rules don't say things like "unscrewing your cue is a forfeit... if the other guy notices it." The guy unscrewed his cue, therefore the match was conceded.

Or to put it another way, once the cue was unscrewed, the match was over so the coach could say any damn thing he wanted.
 
Maybe we should ask a pro. Like Orcullo.

This case was a team event, I'd think the captain would have the right to notify his player.


KK9 <-- the last time someone unscrewed on me, I instantly raked the balls and put my hand out for the cheese. His eyes grew as big as saucers. Yet, he paid. Played him 100 times since, and he hasn't repeated it, thankfully.
 
creedo said:
the whole "whose job" thing is what's at the heart of those threads about "should you call a foul on yourself".
The idea is, if no piece of paper says "it's this person's job" then people are left to guess,
so maybe the rule is no longer in effect, because we can't agree on which person enforces it.

If a player tries to make it their job, someone will say "but this paper doesn't say it's your job, so you have no right".
If a player refuses to make it their job, someone will say "well the rule has to be enforced, so someone
needs to make it their job."

all this stuff is a red herring, distracting people away from simple reality.
There's a specific clearcut rule here. You unscrew, you forfeit.
There is no "asking if they forfeit". There is no "accepting their forfeit".
There is no "whose job it is it to formally acknowledge the forfeit."

it happened, it's done. The match is over. This is not a sharking foul, it's the end of the match.
No takebacks, no weaseling out on technicalities.
You can try to put your cue back together if you want, but the game is over.
You can shake hands or be pissy about it, but the game is over.
Click to expand...



very well said...
 
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