Racking Issue with SVB at 8 ball US Open
- Thread starter CantEverWin
- Start date
Never in my 4 years of playing with a Slug Doctor have I seen a ball be altered by the template. Again that is "NEVER" in 4 years. Maybe in two months from now I will see it but Im pretty sure that I wont. The borders of the holes are so thin it doesn't happen,
I know that everybody on here is gonna say it does but until I see it with my own two eyes im calling BS.
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The first time I saw the Magic Rack a zillion years ago, the demonstrator said that never in all her breaks did a ball ever remain on the Magic Rack. First break, a ball ended up on the Magic Rack.
I think most of us have see the magic rack affect ball travel. I still like it.
Freddie <~~~ need as much magic as I can get
BigBrother
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Is the Tony Robles situation agains Dennis a good thing to bring up here, he made a call against himself over ruling the call which the ref had ruled in his favor, which most likely resulted in his loss.
There are a lot of SVB fan boys and want him to win every match, every game, every time.
Should Shane of put the ball back where he know it was, possibly so but what i see is the ones who fight the fact about if it was a rule, and the ref this, and the opponent that, are the ones who would of done "EXACTLY" what Shane did and keep it moving, waiting for someone else to make the call.
There are a lot of SVB fan boys and want him to win every match, every game, every time.
Should Shane of put the ball back where he know it was, possibly so but what i see is the ones who fight the fact about if it was a rule, and the ref this, and the opponent that, are the ones who would of done "EXACTLY" what Shane did and keep it moving, waiting for someone else to make the call.
And yet the ball moved and Shane is no Copperfield.Johnnyt
OK so lets assume it moved. Are you stating that he moved it and said nothing? Are you saying he moved it on purpose and tried to get away with it? Are you saying his opponent knew he moved it and his English or lack there of caused him to be quiet about it? Are you saying the SVB shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll with the magic bullet?
It's over. Ever been in an argument with someone whether he double hit a ball. Ref gives a ruling or lack there of and that's the answer. SVB is the 8 ball champion. Now go run to the bank and put a stop payment on his oversized check.
We are all starting to make golfers look sane. Next TAR match I'm gonna text JCIN about some foul I saw and see what happens. Our village is officially on tilt. This guy is a cheat. This guy is a nit. This guy is a racist. This guy dumped on me.
Well this guy thinks this is all getting out of hand.
Nick B
I think it's ok to discuss incidents that we see but not ok to automatically assume a person is a cheat, racist, thief etc....we have a lot of mob justice on this forum. I think that this is one of the downsides of society is the rush to condemnation when a story is presented.
And it goes beyond isolated incidents and spreads to condemnation of institutions, countries, governments etc...
I mean equating some of Ken's calls with Shane bias is utterly ridiculous. As well some of the other outlandish claims made on these forums about the motivation of people and companies in the billiard industry is frankly ridiculous. That's always been one of my pet peeves.
A long time ago in a in a land far away I ran for the board of my pool club because I had some things I wanted to do that I thought would be better for the club. My opponent, a friend actually, stood up and said one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. He said, "John only wants to be president so that he can sell more cases." I was like what? Can I make a rule requiring people to buy my cases if I am president of the club? Of course not.
That's how I feel about it sometimes when people make wild speculations as to what the motivation is for decisions. Going away from the rack for a second I want to talk about the balls. Mark Griffin and I had about an hour conversation about the balls more than three years ago. I actually had sent him a couple sets to assist in his search for alternative balls that he felt were good enough. Some of you have the idea that this man takes whatever is put in front of him if the carrot is large enough but you would be absolutely wrong. He cares about the equipment deeply and cares about providing the highest quality he can get.
I promise you that many discussions surround every decision at CSI about equipment. When you have to deal with more than 300 tables and 7000+ players and the pro players you had be sure you can back up your decisions with more than "they are a sponsor".
So maybe, just maybe some of the folks who are being so accusatory could stop and simply try to look at things from another perspective. How about for once looking at it from the perspective of people who care deeply about the sport and make decisions based on that love?
And it goes beyond isolated incidents and spreads to condemnation of institutions, countries, governments etc...
I mean equating some of Ken's calls with Shane bias is utterly ridiculous. As well some of the other outlandish claims made on these forums about the motivation of people and companies in the billiard industry is frankly ridiculous. That's always been one of my pet peeves.
A long time ago in a in a land far away I ran for the board of my pool club because I had some things I wanted to do that I thought would be better for the club. My opponent, a friend actually, stood up and said one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. He said, "John only wants to be president so that he can sell more cases." I was like what? Can I make a rule requiring people to buy my cases if I am president of the club? Of course not.
That's how I feel about it sometimes when people make wild speculations as to what the motivation is for decisions. Going away from the rack for a second I want to talk about the balls. Mark Griffin and I had about an hour conversation about the balls more than three years ago. I actually had sent him a couple sets to assist in his search for alternative balls that he felt were good enough. Some of you have the idea that this man takes whatever is put in front of him if the carrot is large enough but you would be absolutely wrong. He cares about the equipment deeply and cares about providing the highest quality he can get.
I promise you that many discussions surround every decision at CSI about equipment. When you have to deal with more than 300 tables and 7000+ players and the pro players you had be sure you can back up your decisions with more than "they are a sponsor".
So maybe, just maybe some of the folks who are being so accusatory could stop and simply try to look at things from another perspective. How about for once looking at it from the perspective of people who care deeply about the sport and make decisions based on that love?
looks like the greatest american player has moves of his own. if it was unintentional he should have called it.
I think this is more important than any other goofy acusatory-with--no-bias crap that's been said here. And I agree that someone should have been an OFFICIAL referee for the finals.
However:
This will fly over the heads of those crap slingers, but both John Leymsn and Ken Shumn were in attendance for the MR ball moving incident (edit: i previously said 8-ball final, but it wasn't that match), yet neither said anything. Why? Because neither was officially a presider of the final so neither as professional referees could interfere.
Ken has always been consistent as a Sr National Referee. He knows more than the know-it-alls here that he CANNOT interfere with a match if he is not deemed an official referee.
Freddie <~~~ frickin whoosh
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I'm not sure if you were talking about something else, but the rack that the OP was about was not the final, and didn't seem to have an offical ref. I guess it could have and no one noticed. I think ken was called out to clean a ball or two during the match but maybe not.
It wasn't the scope of my original post to question a bias, but I'm going to give my two cents about that anyhow.
I've watched a lot of matches with Ken doing commentary. Quite a few of those have had SVB playing.
There is next to no doubt in my mind that Ken wants SVB to win his matches. The tone of kens voice, comments made, and stories told seem to lean towards him being a SVB fan. I used to think it was just a SVB thing. Some other matches that I've seen I've decided he's usually rooting for the American. Of course that's if they're playing someone foreign.
However, that isn't to say that Ken would intentionally try to effect a match in any way to aid his friend/who he hopes wins. I've found that honest people who have to officiate their friends usually lean on their friends harder, probably just over compensating. It's a bit tough in pool because things are usually black and white, but I'm sure anyone who's ran an event/reffed expects their friends to come correct in everyway.
I have a friend who's ran different types of events, and there's been moments I've wanted to cause a scene, but haven't simply because my friend was running the event, and I didn't want to put him in a tough spot.
There's a tone of SVB fans out there. I personnely believe that many overstate his greatness. However, I've never seen SVB do anything out of line. He seems to try and play hard, but not really ever get out of line. He seems like a good guy. It's because of that I have him the benifeit of the doubt that he didn't "try to cheat." I believe many other pros could have done the same thing with the 8 ball and would have been flamed for the next few months.
I personnely wish I had a line to Ken so I could just ask him the rules, and what his thoughts were during, and now after that incident. He may very well have done nothing wrong. Maybe no one did. Sometimes things just happen. I just think there should be rules to help those incidents be fixed if there is not.
I've watched a lot of matches with Ken doing commentary. Quite a few of those have had SVB playing.
There is next to no doubt in my mind that Ken wants SVB to win his matches. The tone of kens voice, comments made, and stories told seem to lean towards him being a SVB fan. I used to think it was just a SVB thing. Some other matches that I've seen I've decided he's usually rooting for the American. Of course that's if they're playing someone foreign.
However, that isn't to say that Ken would intentionally try to effect a match in any way to aid his friend/who he hopes wins. I've found that honest people who have to officiate their friends usually lean on their friends harder, probably just over compensating. It's a bit tough in pool because things are usually black and white, but I'm sure anyone who's ran an event/reffed expects their friends to come correct in everyway.
I have a friend who's ran different types of events, and there's been moments I've wanted to cause a scene, but haven't simply because my friend was running the event, and I didn't want to put him in a tough spot.
There's a tone of SVB fans out there. I personnely believe that many overstate his greatness. However, I've never seen SVB do anything out of line. He seems to try and play hard, but not really ever get out of line. He seems like a good guy. It's because of that I have him the benifeit of the doubt that he didn't "try to cheat." I believe many other pros could have done the same thing with the 8 ball and would have been flamed for the next few months.
I personnely wish I had a line to Ken so I could just ask him the rules, and what his thoughts were during, and now after that incident. He may very well have done nothing wrong. Maybe no one did. Sometimes things just happen. I just think there should be rules to help those incidents be fixed if there is not.
I'm sure I'm mixing up different matches.
It seems Ken can't win here when he's also been accused of rooting against SVB (Alex vs Shane, Race to 100 ). The argument can't go both ways.
Freddie <~~~ then again, this is the internet
If Ken was biased enough towards Shane to actually try to help him win the match,
he'd simply pretend he never saw the ball move. Not say something but then stay in his chair.
I heard commentary throughout the open and he was effusive in his praise of everyone.
He made Carlo Biado sound like a boy scout and the 2nd coming of efren.
I think he should have butted in, but maybe hesitated because what he saw wasn't technically a foul.
he'd simply pretend he never saw the ball move. Not say something but then stay in his chair.
I heard commentary throughout the open and he was effusive in his praise of everyone.
He made Carlo Biado sound like a boy scout and the 2nd coming of efren.
I think he should have butted in, but maybe hesitated because what he saw wasn't technically a foul.
Haven't tried Slug Doctor. Only tried the prequel, "Rack Spots" both here and in Japan. The only time I saw any effect is when a ball was rolling to a stop in that area. In rare instances you could see it settle into the spot.
That's why I mentioned that it could potentially be a problem for One Pocket or Straight Pool as a lot of play happens in that area (particularly in One Pocket).
It could also be an issue in One Pocket when you are trying to re-spot a ball if it happens to be that the correct spot to place it is extremely close to the templated spot. The ball might insist on shifting a miniscule amount over to settle into the hole, if it were close.
It could be that Ken regrets not doing anything. Maybe he just brain farted, and it never crossed his mind to do something. I don't really like guessing people's intentions in a spot like that because their are so many things that could have been going through his mind.
And again, he very well may not have been supposed to do anything.
I wish I could ask him. From what I've seen I think he would be honest as to whether he made a mistake by not acting.
I've never seen Ken come close to rooting against SVB. However, I haven't seem his match against Alex.
From all the matches I've seen its never seemed close. When SVB missed that last ball vs. Biado in the 8 ball finals it sounded like Kens heart sank. I don't believe there's anything wrong with it. People have favorites. It seemed quite obvious that Ken wanted Rodney to win vs. Dennis in the 10 ball final. That's really the match that made me think he just roots for the Americans. Again nothing wrong with that. Here in California we get a broadcast of lakers games with biased commentators. Often we can choose between the national broadcast and the local biased on. The biased on is nice because they know more info on the team, and it makes it more fun to watch. (I'm guessing that's only for laker fans.)
Sports radio broadcast games that way everywhere. Nothing wrong with it at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV6uoT0YMAY
please listen at around 8:20 where the commentator discusses the players coming together regarding moving the magic rack and a ball. I know its a different tournament and a different form of game, but it might have become a universal rule between all the pro players?
please listen at around 8:20 where the commentator discusses the players coming together regarding moving the magic rack and a ball. I know its a different tournament and a different form of game, but it might have become a universal rule between all the pro players?
Actually, nachos are what's wrong with pool.
Bite your tongue!
You prove your foolishness with this post. Nachos are NEVER wrong. In any sporting event. Period. Nachos FTW!!!
- B <--------- nacho-lover