Outrageous Ruling at Hard Times TADCUP

[kvinbrwr]

Didn't you knock Player A out of the Tourney? If so, good on you!

If he did, Player A should definitely go raise a stink about OMGWTF's rating (whatever it is) and demand a re-rate and a do-over. If she played in heels, demand that she play in flats or vice/versa.

And when that one is done, bring back CubC, forget that 7 for Life, lets try the 8! Or maybe still the 7, but for a lesser period than "life".

RERATE baby.

Kevin

 

[backplaying]

There are so many things that one could about this. Its just plain wrong on so many levels.

I would go with what Fran N said. Player B should have asked/demanded his money back
and walked.

No doubt that the story circulated that day. Thats no way to bring in future players.

Player A should be ashamed that he would use his pull to do that. No sense of fair play.
He should have sucked it back and played the best he can whether he was rated incorrect or not.

If this is truly what happened, I would also have asked for my money back and I would never step foot in the place again.

 

[JohnnyShakes]

If this is truly what happened, I would also have asked for my money back and I would never step foot in the place again.

This is what happened. Without naming names, the facts of the situation were confirmed by one of the TDs on Facebook.

It's hard to quit Hard Times if you are a pool player in SoCal. Not only would you miss out on the Tad Cup, but you'd miss out on the Jay Swanson Memorial 9-ball, Crooks and Castles 10 ball, all of the 1st Sunday tournaments and the best place to find action at any level. There are a lot of things to do there where handicaps don't come into play.

And the tournament directors did the best they could under the circumstances. Someone just took advantage of a player because they thought they could. And he was right. But he didn't win the tournament, so he compromised his integrity for nothing. But now people know about the move, and they will be ready for it if he tries it again.

Johnny

 

[rexus31]

It's sad when one idiot has to put a black eye on a very well run and organized event. It's probably the biggest and best amateur event in So Cal He showed up today and I was shocked he had the balls to walk in there after the stunt he pulled. I've never heard of anything like this and hope I never do again.

 

[NightLife]

I would be interested for the future in who the particular promoter was that did that.
I would never enter a tournament he was involved in.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

But its good straight true hearsay from reportedly trusted sources.

Hey, after all, it probably is, more or less, true.

What blows my mind is that as a group, we here at AZ pretty much all give great lip service and respect for those in the service that sacrificed for our rights, yet we at the same time, toss those rights rights out the window.

I don't understand this analogy sir, but this is a thread that does have a victim, weak TD and evil promoter. We sympathize with the victim based on the allegations and nobody was sworn in. I think we're all aware of that. Maybe you're generalizing?

Chris got a little defensive as he believes what he heard.

I'd rather some hadn't started political baiting in the thread. Pool room etiquette transcends politics usually.

Aren't we all glad this is not a court of law.:thumbup:

 

[TATE]

Did you play? Are you playing?

Kevin

It's for amateurs. I know amateurs. I've played amateurs. When it comes to shooting balls, OMGWTF is no amateur!

 

[demonrho]

...one might say that player 'b' had died since he lost and his existence was extinguished as far as the tournament was concerned. If that's true, then his statement could be considered a dying declaration and would therefore be admissible in court and it is also further corroborated by TD. Objection over-ruled.
I guess it all depends on your perspective

But, for the dying declaration to kick in, the decedent declarent, player 'b', must have made his statement believing he was about to die and describing the cause or circumstance leading to death. It might be easier to get around hearsay under California rules of evidence by characterizing player b's statement as a "spontaneous statement" which is similar to the Federal Rules of Evidence exception (excited utterance) where the statement concerns a startling event (player b being cheated) made while he was still under the stress caused by the event.

 

[Hungarian]

Thanks for sharing this week.

This story infuriates me. I can't imagine a story that anyone could even make up that would piss me off more.

It reminds me of a situation I ran into in jr high school. I've never had a reason to share this story to anyone so thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

I entered a monopoly tournament at the local library. I made it to the "final table." I have hotels on all the green and blue properties. It's a slam dunk. As I'm waiting for the last player to meet their demise the "tournament director" stops the game to say that we are going to restart the game because her daughter claims I may have cheated.

Her daughter had been eliminated by the hotel on Boardwalk. I demand to know how I cheated. The daughter bashfully says that our "money" may have gotten tangled up and I may have "stolen" some of her money. I say, "So she isn't even sure if I stole her money????"

The TD just keeps saying that there is enough question to where we are just going to restart the game.

My protest was to buy enough properties and sell them to the guy that I liked, dirt cheap and left the room, slamming the door hard. The TD ran out demanding to know my parents' number to which I declined.

End of random story.

 

[dexros]

Is it true that Player A literally cried and plead for help to the TD and event promoter?


Playing Cue: Carmeli
Break Cue: Predator BK2
Jump Cue: Jacoby
Extension: Longoni
Case: Predator Blak 4x8

 

[PETROBOY]

Why are they player A and B if this really happened name them and the TD and promoter as well. People would like to know who they are to be able to watchout for this in the future and maybe not play in that promoters events.

 

[APA BRIAN]

I know several people who played in this tourney, Ill have to ask them if they saw the incident. But this is a gnarly story. Its another blemish even if locally on our sport. You have to understand Hard Times, and the culture there. This story, while ridiculous, does not really surprise me. On the tournament side, you are surrounded by rather shady characters, who, at least are usually pleasant.
But if they would have tried to pull this on me, I would have totally lost it.
And Frank, let me ask you a question. In the history of your tournament career, have you ever replayed a match for any reason? Would you be o.k. with this happening to you, a friend, or a relative? No. That's really all there is to it.

 

[cardiac kid]

let me ask you a question. In the history of your tournament career, have you ever replayed a match for any reason? Would you be o.k. with this happening to you, a friend, or a relative? No. That's really all there is to it.

Brian,

He's one for you. Many years ago I played in a tournament directed by the great, late Joe Kerr of Joker Promotions. Looked at the board. Showed a bye. My second match was called. Was handily in front with victory very near. Joe walks up to me and says there has been an error. I did have a first round match. Late prepaid player. Turned out to be one of the top players in the event. Wound up losing a close match. Did I have a choice? What should I have done? Play? Walk out? Never play in one of his events again? Seems like an easy answer. Believe me, it isn't!

Lyn

 

[kvinbrwr]

I know several people who played in this tourney, Ill have to ask them if they saw the incident. But this is a gnarly story. Its another blemish even if locally on our sport. You have to understand Hard Times, and the culture there. This story, while ridiculous, does not really surprise me. On the tournament side, you are surrounded by rather shady characters, who, at least are usually pleasant.
But if they would have tried to pull this on me, I would have totally lost it.
And Frank, let me ask you a question. In the history of your tournament career, have you ever replayed a match for any reason? Would you be o.k. with this happening to you, a friend, or a relative? No. That's really all there is to it.

So you ask Frank a question and then answer it for him? Strong, that way who needs Frank in the "discussion" and he will always agree with your point.

I'm gonna play Frank some 9-Ball the same way. No need to show up Frank, I'll play for you too (while I pound you).

After that, I'm on to Shane.

 

[rexus31]

Is it true that Player A literally cried and plead for help to the TD and event promoter?


Playing Cue: Carmeli
Break Cue: Predator BK2
Jump Cue: Jacoby
Extension: Longoni
Case: Predator Blak 4x8

I heard that too. There's no crying in Pool!

 

[Celophanewrap]

But, for the dying declaration to kick in, the decedent declarent, player 'b', must have made his statement believing he was about to die and describing the cause or circumstance leading to death. It might be easier to get around hearsay under California rules of evidence by characterizing player b's statement as a "spontaneous statement" which is similar to the Federal Rules of Evidence exception (excited utterance) where the statement concerns a startling event (player b being cheated) made while he was still under the stress caused by the event.

Yes, California. I forgot. Thanks for that

 

[kvinbrwr]

Yes, California. I forgot. Thanks for that

I'm currently watching "The Good Wife" so I assure you , I know the law. Now that show is generally in NY, but still I think this whole situation falls into the Best Evidence doctrine. We here at AZ, being the judge and jury in all matters pool, deserve the best evidence and I just don't think the OP relating what he was told rather than what he saw is what we deserve. Please don't make me cite case law from what Season and Episode.

To more important matters. Who won? Did he get a TAD cue and how much does he want for it? Shall we bash the winner for sandbagging and maybe suggest collusion between the winner and the TD and/or promoters now or wait until the cue deal is finished?

 

[JoeyA]

What a bunch of pussies the other players were that knew about this happening and didn't open their mouths. Don't they realize it can happen to them also? Johnnyt

Johnnyt,

I don't know about the other players being pussies but this happens all over the world in pool tournaments and on Internet forums like this one.

Some people see the injustices and "would rather not get into it". Haters will target a person for no other reason than their personal perverted sport and the crowd just sits around and lets it happen.

The do nothing/say nothing people are almost as guilty as the bullies.

Manipulators are everywhere too. They sit behind the scene at pool tournaments whining about their handicaps, about other people's handicaps, anything to change the odds in their favor. It is a sad state of affairs when players go to their friend, the tournament director or promoter and have matches played over.

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

That's a good Event Promoter :thumbup:

It seems that this event is getting some "good press" for the moment.:wink:

JoeyA

 

[kvinbrwr]

Johnnyt,

I don't know about the other players being pussies but this happens all over the world in pool tournaments and on Internet forums like this one.

Some people see the injustices and "would rather not get into it". Haters will target a person for no other reason than their personal perverted sport and the crowd just sits around and lets it happen.

The do nothing/say nothing people are almost as guilty as the bullies.

Manipulators are everywhere too. They sit behind the scene at pool tournaments whining about their handicaps, about other people's handicaps, anything to change the odds in their favor. It is a sad state of affairs when players go to their friend, the tournament director or promoter and have matches played over.

JoeyA

JoeyA

I understand why they handicap tourneys, but without some standardized method like golf (where there is still whining and sandbagging in handicap events) it just a no-win scenario.

If you win, you can't feel that great because it was handicapped. If you lose, you often feel as though the weight allotted was unfair.

I say, rack-em up and play even, at least then winning means something and the not-winners (so PC) can see where they stand.

Kevin