Outrageous Ruling at Hard Times TADCUP

[kvinbrwr]

Under California rules of evidence, the best evidence rule (BER) provides that, where a writing, photograph, or recording is offered in evidence, a copy or other secondary evidence of its content will not be received in place of the original document unless an adequate explanation is offered for the absence of the original. Here, we are not dealing with player b's writing, photograph, or recording, but his oral statement to Mr. Skyscraper. Therefore, the BER does not apply, and the best way to get b's statement admitted into evidence is probably through the "spontaneous statement" exception to hearsay.

See? Direct testimony coming, albeit from a partial participant.

Kevin

 

[demonrho]

See? Direct testimony coming, albeit from a partial participant.

Kevin

Witness testimony will be admissible as long as this partial participant has personal knowledge about the subject of his or her testimony and is not relying on what someone else told him or her. (In other words, the witness must have perceived something with his senses that is relevant to the case.) Cal. Evid. Code § 702

 

[kvinbrwr]

Witness testimony will be admissible as long as this partial participant has personal knowledge about the subject of his or her testimony and is not relying on what someone else told him or her. (In other words, the witness must have perceived something with his senses that is relevant to the case.) Cal. Evid. Code § 702

That's what I objected to in the beginning your honor. The OP was relying (spin or no spin) on what was told to him (spin or no spin) and representing it to the jury as fact (which I'm sure he believed it was).

Lets get all the people involved in the witness box, sworn in by Jay Helfert, and lets get to the bottom of this thing.

Kevin

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I WANNA PLAY MY MATCH OVER GODDAMMIT!!!!!!!!!

 

[dexros]

But why did Player A literally cried, is he or she a baby?


Playing Cue: Carmeli
Break Cue: Predator BK2
Jump Cue: Jacoby
Extension: Longoni
Case: Predator Blak 4x8

 

[dexros]

Its funny because he or she didn't even win or even placed good at the tournament with the bullshit he or she pulled, lol.


Playing Cue: Carmeli
Break Cue: Predator BK2
Jump Cue: Jacoby
Extension: Longoni
Case: Predator Blak 4x8

 

[kvinbrwr]

Its funny because he or she didn't even win or even placed good at the tournament with the bullshit he or she pulled, lol.


Playing Cue: Carmeli
Break Cue: Predator BK2
Jump Cue: Jacoby
Extension: Longoni
Case: Predator Blak 4x8

Got sent home by the enforcer, OMGWTF.

 

[bdorman]

Sounds like you live life passively. "He did a shitty thing. Let's shut up about it and move on with life. While we're at it, let's not make a big deal about it, this way it can happen more and more."

I am not a sheep. I will not sit by idly and let this happen. Nor do I think any of the players think the way you do, who paid $50 or $75 to enter.

I agree with most of what you've written, except this last post has me puzzled: You won't "sit by idly and let this happen"...yet you won't tell us who the culprits were?

Without the names, this thread is nothing more than drama and entertainment (not that I'm opposed to drama and entertainment). So far the TAD Cup and HardTimes have had their reputations blemished (by association only, of course, but blemished none the less).

Maybe you're going to handle this on your own, and knee-cap 'em Chicago-style. In that case my only advice is don't use a pool cue -- not hard enough. Use a tire iron.

 

[fast&loose designs]

I agree with most of what you've written, except this last post has me puzzled: You won't "sit by idly and let this happen"...yet you won't tell us who the culprits were?

Without the names, this thread is nothing more than drama and entertainment (not that I'm opposed to drama and entertainment). So far the TAD Cup and HardTimes have had their reputations blemished (by association only, of course, but blemished none the less).

Maybe you're going to handle this on your own, and knee-cap 'em Chicago-style. In that case my only advice is don't use a pool cue -- not hard enough. Use a tire iron.

Names don't need to be public in order for those responsible to not let this happen again. They've both read this thread and know that many players are outraged that competed there.

 

[SCCues]

Where is the benefits of working your a** off at getting better for years? So you can spot more? I don't play handicap tourneys anymore. Nor do I think it is good for pool. It is just a way to scheme out a win.

I couldn't agree with you more. Handicap tournaments where I live are a joke. There are so many good players here who have sand bagged to be ranked low so they can win money getting spotted by players who play their speed or less. I hate handicap tournaments because there will always be players who get in ranked lower than they should be and I just don't play in them anymore.

James

 

[Banks]

Names don't need to be public in order for those responsible to not let this happen again. They've both read this thread and know that many players are outraged that competed there.

Player A showed their colors by crying like a baby. :crying:

Player B provided the lube when he agreed to the replay. :kma:

Names should be dropped so that these people know that we know that they know that they caused all of this crap.

Slap them both.. thanks. :slap:

 

[Roger Long]

Nobody says the right thing, makes the right decision or understands others perfectly, 100% of the time.

Oh, no? I guess you've never met my wife.

 

[demonrho]

...Or you would rather believe that this was all made up. I don't really know why you want to think I am lying or twisting this story. It is simple and there is no mystery or underlying cause for him to do what he did that would make it OK.

My dear Mr. Skyscraper, I have been scrupulously neutral. In fact, I provided a rationale for you to get player B's statement to you admitted as evidence through a hearsay exception. Instead of berating me, you should be thanking me. I guess no good deed goes unpunished these days.

 

[lee brett]

I had a few drinks one night before a match, all bought for me. Was to help me sleep in near 100 degree heat in my car and i get slated for weeks.

A guy pulls a stunt like this and no one outs who it is, wow what is az coming too..... This person should be outed so we can all watch out for them pulling moves like this again... Not player A who is player A? people know and should say who he/she is...

 

[PocketSpeed11]

I had a few drinks one night before a match, all bought for me. Was to help me sleep in near 100 degree heat in my car and i get slated for weeks.

A guy pulls a stunt like this and no one outs who it is, wow what is az coming too..... This person should be outed so we can all watch out for them pulling moves like this again... Not player A who is player A? people know and should say who he/she is...

Agreed. The event promoter should at least be outed, if not both.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

O.K. , I've had a beer or two tonight ...

Mr. Brett, you outed yourself to some degree. Yes this forum made a federal case of it, since some had a piece of you.

This was a "B" player tournament. Do you really want to get all dirty again?

It's still muddy, jump in and roll around if makes you feel better.

I'll bet RKC will jump in here to make comparisons to this thread and his rail failure thread (that had over 300 posts without his participation ).

Don't bother...we know its none of our business and you're booked 3 years out and are living the dream.

Is it just me or does beer have this same effect on the rest of you? ( I didn't buy the beer )

 

[worktheknight]

This is why I'm starting to hate handicap tournaments altogether. There is nothing wrong with a lower player rising up his game during a match, I mean great for him. I think player b advances, done deal. Player A simply lost. In our team tournaments, they are handicapped and we have to shoot well, shoot smart and finish or we will lose as the handicap is so lopsided between different operators, you think they would be embarrassed in giving the x amount of teams that just whine. Of course, you see better teams whine after losing a match because of the handicap, as I agree, Player A should have dealt with his own rating before the match began or he could have asked for his money back and left. Why put player b through this.

Here's one that is similar and I know there is a lot of APA players around the country, but, a friend of mine from Florida was playing in the state championship and a team mate of his shot really well, actually ran a few tables and the team they beat complained that he shot over his average ?? ( I am not an apa player and have no interest in becoming one ), but, they disqualified the guy for having a few great games, my friend went and blew his stack and they threw him out of the tournament as well.

What the heck, I guess the player should have ducked the eight ball by a pocket for a few shots? I am a weak master player and when lower ranked guys do defeat me, I am a gentleman about it, I may go to the room and beat the bed with a pillow for about ten minutes, but, I'm not going to take away the complete situation of the match, as when I defeat a top master player, I am showed respect and am sure they are doing the same thing in there room.
I've seen strange things in tournaments, but, this one is about as bad as it gets. Seen one worse, though

 

[JoeyA]

For me, I think the responsibility for this problem lies with the two players, not so much the tournament promoter or the tournament director even though both of them committed major faux pas as we like to call it down here in Louisiana.

It is each player's responsibility to know what their handicap is and what the handicap is of their opponent. If a player is assigned a handicap that he thinks is incorrect, he should have that issue settled before he plays a match. If a player has a difference of opinion with his opponent's handicap, he should address that with the tournament director BEFORE the match begins.

If the wrong handicap is given out, both players should know it and address it before the match.

Due diligence isn't reserved just for legal matters.

JoeyA

 

[cardiac kid]

For me, I think the responsibility for this problem lies with the two players, not so much the tournament promoter or the tournament director even though both of them committed major faux pas as we like to call it down here in Louisiana.

It is each player's responsibility to know what their handicap is and what the handicap is of their opponent. If a player is assigned a handicap that he thinks is incorrect, he should have that issue settled before he plays a match. If a player has a difference of opinion with his opponent's handicap, he should address that with the tournament director BEFORE the match begins.

If the wrong handicap is given out, both players should know it and address it before the match.

Due diligence isn't reserved just for legal matters.

JoeyA

Joey,

Doesn't that require taking personal responsibility for your actions? Not the American way anymore. Easier to blame someone else!

Lyn

 

[demonrho]

On a side note, who actually won the Tad Cup? Who came in second?