"A" joint question(s) - broke forearm (s)

Dirtbmw20

Dirtbmw20

Lee Casto
Silver Member
I guess my first real question would be this.........

How come some people (manufacturers) use a connecting screw at the A joint and some don't ?? Why a screw at THAT joint and not any other ?? Do "most" custom makers use a screw at the A joint ?? What are the bebefits ?? How come a tenon and epoxy isn't good enough for the A joint like it is for the rest of the cue ?? How come you wouldn't just thread the tenon instead of installing a long screw ??

I have a McDermott that I cut the forearm off of and made a jump/break cue. It had NO screw at the A joint.

Recently I have been given TWO different Meucci's that each owner cracked or broke the forearm off (what is it with drunks and Meucci's by the way) and both have a screw at the A joint.

Can someone give me the best route to go to replace the forearm (s) ?? I have cut the old forearm away from the handle. I'm left with the handle/butt of the cue with the A joint screw protruding out. Here is a pic if one, they are both identicle repairs.
8e7ytaja.jpg



Sent from my SCH-I535
 
Take the screw out, bore the hole or take a forearm and screw the bastard on the connecting screw , lol. What's the best/correct method to go since it has the A joint screw ??

Sent from my SCH-I535
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
Take the screw out, bore the hole or take a forearm and screw the bastard on the connecting screw , lol. What's the best/correct method to go since it has the A joint screw ??

Sent from my SCH-I535
Click to expand...
A joints with connecting screws are also a tenon joint.
Leave the connecting screw in place, assuming it has not been bent. To remove it would alter the hit and feel of the repaired cue.

Alan

Phelps Custom Cues
 
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Brickcues said:
What other joint?
Click to expand...

I guess I am more referring to the bottom part of the handle, that's still a "joint" per say but no screw there.

I'd still like to know the benefit of that screw and why some use it and others don't. How many "custom" makers you an A joint screw versus how many don't.

Sent from my SCH-I535
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
I guess I am more referring to the bottom part of the handle, that's still a "joint" per say but no screw there.

I'd still like to know the benefit of that screw and why some use it and others don't. How many "custom" makers you an A joint screw versus how many don't.

Sent from my SCH-I535
Click to expand...

I use a connecting screw at the a joint
 
Brickcues said:
What other joint?
Click to expand...

Also......Not being a cue builder and only playing around with my own cues, I never realized that the connecting pin went that far deep down into the top of the forearm until recently when I cut the joint off of each forearm. The average person just assumes it's there only to screw a shaft onto.

Sent from my SCH-I535
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
I guess I am more referring to the bottom part of the handle, that's still a "joint" per say but no screw there.

I'd still like to know the benefit of that screw and why some use it and others don't. How many "custom" makers you an A joint screw versus how many don't.

Sent from my SCH-I535
Click to expand...

With a typical 3 piece butt configuration, the butt sleeve is assembled on the tenon that is protruding from the handle. Given that, there is no joint there where a screw could be used.
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
Also......Not being a cue builder and only playing around with my own cues, I never realized that the connecting pin went that far deep down into the top of the forearm until recently when I cut the joint off of each forearm. The average person just assumes it's there only to screw a shaft onto.

Sent from my SCH-I535
Click to expand...

Just how far down are you talking about? The typical joint pin is around 3.25". With a projection of roughly 1.25" or so, that would mean the pin is installed roughly 2" deep. How shallow would you think the average person assumes a metal joint pin is installed in their cue?
 
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Kelly_Guy said:
Just how far down are you talking about? The typical joint pin is around 3.25". With a projection of roughly 1.25" or so, that would mean the pin is installed roughly 2" deep. How shallow would you think the average person assumes a metal joint pin is installed in their cue?
Click to expand...

This pin is 4" long with 1.25" projecting out so that's 2.75" going into the top of the forearm.

As far as how shallow the average person assumes a metal joint (who said it was a metal joint ;) pin is installed in their cue...... I would really assume they would think just as much is down in the forearm as is sticking out for the shaft to screw onto. I guess you missed my point that with my inexperience I just didn't know MORE was going into the forearm than was projecting out, I myself assumed just about the same went into the forearm as was projecting out.

Sent from my SCH-I535
 
This is the joint after cutting it off the forearm. THIS one is a metal joint but the other one isn't.

agynunuq.jpg


Sent from my SCH-I535
 
Here is a pic of the other (first) Meucci joint that I cut off a broken forearm. Tital length is only 3" with 1" projecting out for the shaft to screw onto, only leaving 2" into the forearm.
yqu6y5e3.jpg


So....... with all that said and looked at in chronological order coupled with my inexperience, that's where my question and confusion stems from.

1st cue cut up was a McDermott with NO A joint screw. 2nd was the one with the white joint, it actually had more projecting out for the shaft thsn it did for the forearm. 3rd was the SS joint with 2.75" going into the forearm.

Now that we've got way off topic, can we please get back on the topic of the A joint screw ???

Why some use it and why some don't ?? Do more cuemakers use it than don't ?? I'm just trying to learn here is all, especially since I've never seen it the same, all three times so far they are all different.


BOTH Meucci's had the A joint screw where the McDermott did not. The pics above are pics of the connecting screw/joint I cut off the top of each forearm.

Sent from my SCH-I535
 
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Regarding the McD without an A-joint pin, they use a couple of different construction methods depending on the model of cue. Some will have an A joint screw, others will not.

If you plan on using the joint collars from the Meucci cues, you will need to pull the pin and core the collars so you can sleeve them over the new forearm. If you try to just screw them on and flat face, as you have them pictured, they will snap off and blow the new forearm apart.

Your best bet if the original forearms are beyond repair is to cut the butt sleeve off and throw the handle away. Just start over. It is much harder to repair the cue than it is to start over. I mean, its a Frankenstein cue at this point so I assume you are just trying to make something playable out of what you were given. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I cut the forearm off of both cues right at the beginning of the wrap, however, I can still see a small tiny part of the forearm still left underneath the wrap area (I can still see parts of the veneers). Both of these cues have been trashed by the previous owners and given to me to play with, mess with, fix, tear up, whatever I see fit to do with them. JUST for the experience, I would love to TRY and fix them. If I mess them up I can throw them away and nobody gets mad or has lost anything (except my time). If I happen to fix them, then I get to keep them. IF I can fix them, I would love to take them to one of the local pool halls and just donate/give them to some kid trying to scrape up money for a new cue. I have ZERO intentions of selling them after they are fixed or attempted to be fixed. They will be freebies given away to a needy pool player.

BOTH cues are Meucci's that have the clearcoat over the wraps too. Should I take the wrap off the cue also to get the rest of the forearm out from underneath it ?? I am just not sure of the route/procedure to take from this point forward.

Let's say I buy two plain jane forearms from Joe at Cue Components (or anybody for that matter, just used CC as an example), already cored so they have a tenon sticking out the end.

What's the proper procedure for attaching the forearms back to the handle since there is no tenon left on either cue ??

Would I take the existing A joint screw out, bore the hole so it will accept the tenon from the forearm, then put a whole new A joint screw in there and screw it into the tenon sticking out from the forearm ??

I am sorry and I sinserely apologize for the basic and elementary questions, but I've reached a point in a repair that I have never seen or experienced before and would just like to know the proper way of proceding with the repair. I'm sure I'll get flamed, made fun of, ridiculed, and various other things for my inexperience and lack of knowledge. However, I would GREATLY appreciate ANY help, info, knowledge, or direction to take. Thank you to all that have replied so far and also in advance for anymore contributions made to my thread.

Lee Casto
 
ratcues said:
Regarding the McD without an A-joint pin, they use a couple of different construction methods depending on the model of cue. Some will have an A joint screw, others will not.
Ryan...... Thank you SO much for the basic explanation, why some have it and why some don't has puzzled the crap out of me. So basically it just comes down to different constructions. Simple enough.
If you plan on using the joint collars from the Meucci cues, you will need to pull the pin and core the collars so you can sleeve them over the new forearm. If you try to just screw them on and flat face, as you have them pictured, they will snap off and blow the new forearm apart.
Thank you once again for this info. On the first one, the ONLY reason I cut the collar off was because it has a decor ring on it that matches the butt of the cue and I WOULD like to re-use that collar. The second one was just a SS collar and I cut it off just for the experience...... to see if I could. I tried to take the pin out of the first one (the white collar) but never was successful, but I did save it so I could try again at a later time. Thanks for the info on coring the collars, my inexperience speaks volumes at this point as I wasn't aware of that.
Your best bet if the original forearms are beyond repair is to cut the butt sleeve off and throw the handle away. Just start over. It is much harder to repair the cue than it is to start over. I mean, its a Frankenstein cue at this point so I assume you are just trying to make something playable out of what you were given. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes, both forearms were damaged WAY beyond repair or re-use. You are EXACTLY correct !!!!! I really don't care if they end up playable, I just want to practice on them but I want to try and do it correctly if I can. I mean I would LIKE them to come out playable, but if they don't, then I chalk it up to experience. I will follow your advice and start over from the butt sleeve. Thanks so very much for the advice Ryan. I'll cut the butt sleeves off the handles tonight.
Click to expand...

Thank you again for all the helpful advice Ryan !!!
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
What's the proper procedure for attaching the forearms back to the handle since there is no tenon left on either cue? Would I take the existing A joint screw out, bore the hole so it will accept the tenon from the forearm, then put a whole new A joint screw in there and screw it into the tenon sticking out from the forearm ??
Click to expand...

I would pull the A joint pin from the handle, bore and plug it, and start fresh. The new forearm will have the tenon and new pin. Bore/tap the 'new' handle to accept the pin and tenon. As long as you use the same type of pin and tenon method as the original, I don't see it making a difference big enough for a player to feel.

Also, remove the original wrap because you will have to chuck the cue on that wood. Make sure you indicate the old handle before boring for the new tenon/A joint pin so it is concentric when reassembled.
 
ratcues said:
I would pull the A joint pin from the handle, bore and plug it, and start fresh. The new forearm will have the tenon and new pin. Bore/tap the 'new' handle to accept the pin and tenon. As long as you use the same type of pin and tenon method as the original, I don't see it making a difference big enough for a player to feel.

Also, remove the original wrap because you will have to chuck the cue on that wood. Make sure you indicate the old handle before boring for the new tenon/A joint pin so it is concentric when reassembled.
Click to expand...


Thank you once again Ryan.

Just to let everyone/anyone know, I HAVE read Darcy's thread on his A joint repair over, and over, and over again........ and then went back and read it some more. I searched and read threads all weekend long on A joint repairs. Mine was a little different than Darcy's since the forearm on mine have to be replaced completely so I didn't know if there was a slightly different "approach" to it, but all in all it's pretty much the same.
 
aga2e2ap.jpg


WTH ?????

This is one of two Meucci's that were given to me with broken forearms. I had previously cut the forearm off and left the handle WITH wrap still on the cue. I took the linen wrap off last night and found this..........

There is a 1" piece of phenolic that was "sleeved" onto the top of the handle. I guess to make the handle longer ??? Anybody ever seen this before ??? It's like they screwed up and made the handle too short and had to add an extra inch to it. I don't have the experience most of you have and just wondered if this was normal ???
Sent from my SCH-I535
 
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