Are some people not meant to play the game?

[Pidge]

Maybe a few straight in stop shots would help. Angled shots are good but IMO there will
be more feedback hitting straight in shots. Off center OB hits will send the CB sideways.

He has straight in shots down pretty much. I started out just getting him to hit through 2 balls 3 inches apart and 3ft away. He did it easily. Then stop shots on staight in shots 3ft away. Again he did well at them, and still does. As soon as I introduce an angle he over cuts on right cuts and undercuts on left cuts. On shots when the pocket isn't in his line of vision he does the best. Weird right? Confusing the crap outta me.

 

[Fatboy]

my answer is yes

i know some hopeless players, they have been practising for years and years, drills, practise, competitions - still can't run a rack.

I have a friend who tried to play at my house a few years back, he couldnt get the tip to hit the CB-it was that bad. I never in life seen someone so awkward, next time i see him ill get video. His girl couldnt make a ball but could hit the CB. my friend in 10 years with the best coaches, instructors etc couldnt run a rack for a billion dollars. he is that hopeless.

 

[336Robin]

An old friend I'd not seen in about 5 years was at the pool hall about 5 months ago when I was playing a match. He never showed any interest in pool so I was suprised to see him there. He said he joined a pool league here and wanted to get some pactice in.

afterwards we played for an hour or two and he was awful. A 2 ball run in 8 ball was beyond his ability. He was getting frustrated and asked if I could teach him a few things. Even though the team he was playing for were just some guys playing for fun, he's competative and wanted to atleast pot 3 or 4 in a row.

Over the past 5 years we've been playing 2 or 3 times a week. I started out simple. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals! His stance and stroke were pretty decent after a while so then I moved onto aiming. Ghost ball was the first method I tried teaching him. He just couldn't do it. He said he just couldn't see the imaginary ball. So then I moved onto fractional aiming. Simple stuff like where the ball goes after 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits. Little more success in terms of consistently making a ball. Then as the fractions became more complex he struggled so I asked him to use 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits as a starter and move your head left or right until it looked right. Nope, still couldn't visualise it. He asked me how I aim and it confused him no end.

So this is where we are today. 5 months, unable to run 3 balls in 8 ball, not even got past centre ball hits. If he was paying me I'd give him his money back! Any advice?

I've come to the conclusion that some people just weren't meant to play.

Pidge,
I think its more to do with some people take longer to start understanding the things they need to in order to start seeing shots. I would teach him aim using his cue stick through the center of the ball and see when he starts asking questions. I think he has to start wondering where he is really hitting the object ball first before hes ready to move on.

 

[JohnnyOzone]

my friend in 10 years with the best coaches, instructors etc couldnt run a rack for a billion dollars. he is that hopeless

.
or.....he's the greatest shark ever and he's waiting to pounce on you!

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

Our local 8-Ball League starts next month ... Please drop by
for a look-see, then let me know how many are NOT in the "not
meant to play pool" category ... Trust me, it will be faster than
counting those who are.

 

[Pidge]

Pidge,
I think its more to do with some people take longer to start understanding the things they need to in order to start seeing shots. I would teach him aim using his cue stick through the center of the ball and see when he starts asking questions. I think he has to start wondering where he is really hitting the object ball first before hes ready to move on.

I've tried some sort of stick aiming with him. A weird combination of contact point aiming and stick aiming. Still no success.

I honestly think CTE Pro1 would be the answer to his problems but he's playing in an English 8 Ball league and that method doesn't work too well in English 8 Ball. Besides, I think you need a strong understanding and experience of what the shot line is before you take on any pivot based aiming method. And with a good chance of leaving him like "huh?" ill leave it for now

One day we will find a way to pocket balls he can relate to then we can take a look at manipulating the tangent line with spin and general positional play, but for now the search continues.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I agree, there are those who can't play pool.
A guy I know who has no arms, or legs, can't play. He has a good paying job, though. He's second base for our local minor league ball team. :smile:

 

[Pidge]

I agree, there are those who can't play pool.
A guy I know who has no arms, or legs, can't play. He has a good paying job, though. He's second base for our local minor league ball team. :smile:

If you ever need a 1st base let me know, ill donate my buddy.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Pidge,

What about his 'vision center'?

Is he sighting correctly?

Can Gene's Perfect Aim maybe help?

That's 3 question & did not even raise my hand.

Best
Rick

 

[Pidge]

Pidge,

What about his 'vision center'?

Is he sighting correctly?

Can Gene's Perfect Aim maybe help?

That's 3 question & did not even raise my hand.

Best
Rick

Ha where are your manors Rick? They cost nothing you know!

Ive gone through "Dominant eye tests" with him. He says both eyes see things the same individually as well as together if that makes sense. I figure he hasn't got a dominant eye. But I can't see what he's seeing so I've got to go on what he tells me.

I'm almost certain he can "see" most shots when stood up, he's not a complete idiot. Infact he's very smart, text book smart that is

Either I'm missing something when showing him basic fundementals or he isnt getting into the shot line correctly. His fundamentals look fine to me, so it makes me think he is "seeing" a shot, but isn't getting himself into the shot right, so when down, he's not on the shot line. Something I'm going to look out for next time we play.

 

[bmsclayton]

the game

An old friend I'd not seen in about 5 years was at the pool hall about 5 months ago when I was playing a match. He never showed any interest in pool so I was suprised to see him there. He said he joined a pool league here and wanted to get some pactice in.

afterwards we played for an hour or two and he was awful. A 2 ball run in 8 ball was beyond his ability. He was getting frustrated and asked if I could teach him a few things. Even though the team he was playing for were just some guys playing for fun, he's competative and wanted to atleast pot 3 or 4 in a row.

Over the past 5 years we've been playing 2 or 3 times a week. I started out simple. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals! His stance and stroke were pretty decent after a while so then I moved onto aiming. Ghost ball was the first method I tried teaching him. He just couldn't do it. He said he just couldn't see the imaginary ball. So then I moved onto fractional aiming. Simple stuff like where the ball goes after 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits. Little more success in terms of consistently making a ball. Then as the fractions became more complex he struggled so I asked him to use 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits as a starter and move your head left or right until it looked right. Nope, still couldn't visualise it. He asked me how I aim and it confused him no end.

So this is where we are today. 5 months, unable to run 3 balls in 8 ball, not even got past centre ball hits. If he was paying me I'd give him his money back! Any advice?

I've come to the conclusion that some people just weren't meant to play.

I love to play and gamble and I am horrible but I love the damn game and play every chance I get, run tournaments, owned a pool hall, part owner in one now, etc.. I am terrible and will be terrible took two lessons and I am still terrible.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Ha where are your manors Rick? They cost nothing you know!

Ive gone through "Dominant eye tests" with him. He says both eyes see things the same individually as well as together if that makes sense. I figure he hasn't got a dominant eye. But I can't see what he's seeing so I've got to go on what he tells me.

I'm almost certain he can "see" most shots when stood up, he's not a complete idiot. Infact he's very smart, text book smart that is

Either I'm missing something when showing him basic fundementals or he isnt getting into the shot line correctly. His fundamentals look fine to me, so it makes me think he is "seeing" a shot, but isn't getting himself into the shot right, so when down, he's not on the shot line. Something I'm going to look out for next time we play.

Pidge,

I hear what you're saying. This may sound a bit strange or at least unusual but...

I don't have any conscious PSR except to pick a shot & where I want to go next & then how I want to get there.

When I move into a shot with no conscious thought has to how I do it, it is my eye that guides me. I probably move into position differently for every shot. I might not do it the same way twice in a game. My point is that my 'eye' stays on the line & then my body 'forms' around it. I think Jerry Breisath calls it 'chinning'. He keeps his chin on the line as he moves his body into position.

If you say his fundamental are basically good I would bet that it has something to do with him not 'sighting' the cue properly.

If I were you I'd hook him up with a phone test with Gene. I've heard he does wonders.

Good luck with it.
Rick

PS I just thought of something else that I used to check when coaching baseball. We walk around all day every day with our eyes level. Tilt your to the side & try walking around you house for awhile or try to do some other task involving sight. Some boys & girls that I use to coach would get into the batters box & would have their heads tilted & could not make solid contact. They would foul balls all over the place until I would get them to straighten their head, then bam, balls all over the field. It's worth checking. Level Eyes.

 

[JohnPT]

I think he needs some alone time with the table. There are a lot of things in pool you have to figure out on your own too. With enough time he will get that "Aha" moment and finally really understand what you meant all this time.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I love to play and gamble and I am horrible but I love the damn game and play every chance I get, run tournaments, owned a pool hall, part owner in one now, etc.. I am terrible and will be terrible took two lessons and I am still terrible.

Maybe so but...

you have a nice avatar.:wink:

Best to Y'a,
Rick

 

[franko]

Exactly

An old friend I'd not seen in about 5 years was at the pool hall about 5 months ago when I was playing a match. He never showed any interest in pool so I was suprised to see him there. He said he joined a pool league here and wanted to get some pactice in.

afterwards we played for an hour or two and he was awful. A 2 ball run in 8 ball was beyond his ability. He was getting frustrated and asked if I could teach him a few things. Even though the team he was playing for were just some guys playing for fun, he's competative and wanted to atleast pot 3 or 4 in a row.

Over the past 5 years we've been playing 2 or 3 times a week. I started out simple. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals! His stance and stroke were pretty decent after a while so then I moved onto aiming. Ghost ball was the first method I tried teaching him. He just couldn't do it. He said he just couldn't see the imaginary ball. So then I moved onto fractional aiming. Simple stuff like where the ball goes after 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits. Little more success in terms of consistently making a ball. Then as the fractions became more complex he struggled so I asked him to use 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits as a starter and move your head left or right until it looked right. Nope, still couldn't visualise it. He asked me how I aim and it confused him no end.

So this is where we are today. 5 months, unable to run 3 balls in 8 ball, not even got past centre ball hits. If he was paying me I'd give him his money back! Any advice?

I've come to the conclusion that some people just weren't meant to play.

I was in the same exact situation with a friend of my, he even took lessons from a pro , it made no difference. I finally told him he would be better off putting his time and efforts into something like golf.He took my advice and is a mid 90s golfer, far better then he would have ever been with Pool.I have a Dymondwood table he managed to put a scratch in it.

 

[Pidge]

Pidge,

I hear what you're saying. This may sound a bit strange or at least unusual but...

I don't have any conscious PSR except to pick a shot & where I want to go next & then how I want to get there.

When I move into a shot with no conscious thought has to how I do it, it is my eye that guides me. I probably move into position differently for every shot. I might not do it the same way twice in a game. My point is that my 'eye' stays on the line & then my body 'forms' around it. I think Jerry Breisath calls it 'chinning'. He keeps his chin on the line as he moves his body into position.

If you say his fundamental are basically good I would bet that it has something to do with him not 'sighting' the cue properly.

If I were you I'd hook him up with a phone test with Gene. I've heard he does wonders.

Good luck with it.
Rick

PS I just thought of something else that I used to check when coaching baseball. We walk around all day every day with our eyes level. Tilt your to the side & try walking around you house for awhile or try to do some other task involving sight. Some boys & girls that I use to coach would get into the batters box & would have their heads tilted & could not make solid contact. They would foul balls all over the place until I would get them to straighten their head, then bam, balls all over the field. It's worth checking. Level Eyes.

I had an hours table time with him this morning. I switched it up a bit.

Asked him to draw a line with chalk from the BACK of the CB about 4 inches long on what he thought the shot line would be. Instead of getting him to then line the cue along that line and shoot, I did it instead just to make sure he was on the right shot line. BINGO! He got the shot line spot on on 2-3 ft shots. A little off on 6+ft shots but that's to be expected.

Then I got him to try shots with lining the cue along the chalk lines hed made. His ability to make balls improved instantly. Even on 6, 7 and 8 ft shots where I drew the lines he was making balls he wouldn't ever expect to make. He's not going to turn pro anytime soon, but he left a happy man.

So this shows to me he can see the right shot line when stood up. When getting down to the shot must be his problem.

I need ideas on how to get him from seeing the shot line, to actually dropping into the shot line.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I had an hours table time with him this morning. I switched it up a bit.

Asked him to draw a line with chalk from the BACK of the CB about 4 inches long on what he thought the shot line would be. Instead of getting him to then line the cue along that line and shoot, I did it instead just to make sure he was on the right shot line. BINGO! He got the shot line spot on on 2-3 ft shots. A little off on 6+ft shots but that's to be expected.

Then I got him to try shots with lining the cue along the chalk lines hed made. His ability to make balls improved instantly. Even on 6, 7 and 8 ft shots where I drew the lines he was making balls he wouldn't ever expect to make. He's not going to turn pro anytime soon, but he left a happy man.

So this shows to me he can see the right shot line when stood up. When getting down to the shot must be his problem.

I need ideas on how to get him from seeing the shot line, to actually dropping into the shot line.

Pidge,

Read my earlier post about Breisath's chinning & my 'eye' staying on the line. Also my point about keeping the eyes level from standing to down on the shot. Also, like I said, they say Gene of Perfect Aim can do some great things even over the phone.

Good Luck & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[bdorman]

You might try Dr Dave's Vision Center alignment drill. It can help him see if he's getting down on the ball incorrectly. It's important to shoot it as a stop shot (CB movement to the right or left will reveal inaccuracies in his stroke).

Dr Dave's Vision Alignment Drill

I like to shoot 5-10 shots of it every time I play, just as a quick check.

 

[scratchs]

I love to play and gamble and I am horrible but I love the damn game and play every chance I get, run tournaments, owned a pool hall, part owner in one now, etc.. I am terrible and will be terrible took two lessons and I am still terrible.

Have you thought about taking up foosball..? don't dump on yourself so hard..I suck too..I'll never quit..way to much enjoyment.

 

[lfigueroa]

An old friend I'd not seen in about 5 years was at the pool hall about 5 months ago when I was playing a match. He never showed any interest in pool so I was suprised to see him there. He said he joined a pool league here and wanted to get some pactice in.

afterwards we played for an hour or two and he was awful. A 2 ball run in 8 ball was beyond his ability. He was getting frustrated and asked if I could teach him a few things. Even though the team he was playing for were just some guys playing for fun, he's competative and wanted to atleast pot 3 or 4 in a row.

Over the past 5 years we've been playing 2 or 3 times a week. I started out simple. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals! His stance and stroke were pretty decent after a while so then I moved onto aiming. Ghost ball was the first method I tried teaching him. He just couldn't do it. He said he just couldn't see the imaginary ball. So then I moved onto fractional aiming. Simple stuff like where the ball goes after 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits. Little more success in terms of consistently making a ball. Then as the fractions became more complex he struggled so I asked him to use 1/4 and 1/2 ball hits as a starter and move your head left or right until it looked right. Nope, still couldn't visualise it. He asked me how I aim and it confused him no end.

So this is where we are today. 5 months, unable to run 3 balls in 8 ball, not even got past centre ball hits. If he was paying me I'd give him his money back! Any advice?

I've come to the conclusion that some people just weren't meant to play.

Many moons ago I had a good friend who was pretty helpless. The following actually worked and got him pocketing balls better (YMMV): throw the balls out and just have him shoot them directly into the pockets -- no CB. He can start out with the ones near a pocket and then move to those further away. I dunno, but I think something about doing it that way and just getting used to setting up for a pocket helped him get his body right. Ain't gonna make no one a star over night, but might jog them into a better set up.

Lou Figueroa