Archer is Team USA Captain with Buddy Hall as Co-Captain for Mosconi Cup
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
NBA basket ball players would use the same "poor excuse" if they suddenly ...........
It is a poor excuse, you're right, and the NBA basket ball players would use the same "poor excuse" if they suddenly had to play with a 9' rim instead of 10'.....it's tough to simply change something you've done all your life, and the USA team is no exception.
The "Cut Break" is a silly way to break.....although it's effective when the 9 Ball is racked on the spot...... look through the rule books and show where it says that the 9 Ball is racked on the spot......it's right next to the basketball rule book's 9' guidelines for basketball 's {goal height} requirements. :groucho:
It won't matter this year, the USA Team will win no matter how they rack/break. It's in EVERYONE's best interest for the USA team to win this year......and they will. imho
It is a poor excuse, you're right, and the NBA basket ball players would use the same "poor excuse" if they suddenly had to play with a 9' rim instead of 10'.....it's tough to simply change something you've done all your life, and the USA team is no exception.
The "Cut Break" is a silly way to break.....although it's effective when the 9 Ball is racked on the spot...... look through the rule books and show where it says that the 9 Ball is racked on the spot......it's right next to the basketball rule book's 9' guidelines for basketball 's {goal height} requirements. :groucho:
It won't matter this year, the USA Team will win no matter how they rack/break. It's in EVERYONE's best interest for the USA team to win this year......and they will. imho
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oh that would be me - a week ago....please keep up.
(you want 10pts of my bet w/ CJ?)
: )
Only Johnny and Earl (and Buddy co-capitano) have been announced officially.
But the inside word from leaky faucets, confirms (in pencil with an eraser) that your list is spot on. Pinklady was the first to throw this out there (I think she is a shill for Barry Hearn
)
Can someone say THE MILLION DOLLAR MAN!!! :thumbup:
ok - FatBoy....want to STAKE me @ 50%?
Johnny, Rodney, Shane, Dennis, Corey
This is just common sense....and everyone involved has plenty of $en$e.
Anyone want to bet against this line up?
Ummm, CJ. Someone took you up on that bet.
Are you having crawfish for dinner or what?
Feet to the fire is the teacher :thumbup:
.I think he deserves honorable mention anyway.
I was the one that originally posted the news about Earl on the Mosconi Cup's page, just wanted to make sure there was still some gamblers around.....if we can't gamble at pool we have to choose "other" options.
There's still a chance Corey Deuel may be included....I think he deserves honorable mention anyway.
I was the one that originally posted the news about Earl on the Mosconi Cup's page, just wanted to make sure there was still some gamblers around.....if we can't gamble at pool we have to choose "other" options.
There's still a chance Corey Deuel may be included....I think he deserves honorable mention anyway.
.when we played there was more than 5.
That is how they could solve the problem, and make it better this year.....when we played there was more than 5....there's certainly no rules that say they can't have as many as they choose. Corey and Rodney both deserve the position from this year's performances coupled with their history on the MC.
That is how they could solve the problem, and make it better this year.....when we played there was more than 5....there's certainly no rules that say they can't have as many as they choose. Corey and Rodney both deserve the position from this year's performances coupled with their history on the MC.
I was the one that originally posted the news about Earl on the Mosconi Cup's page, just wanted to make sure there was still some gamblers around.....if we can't gamble at pool we have to choose "other" options.
There's still a chance Corey Deuel may be included....I think he deserves honorable mention anyway.
I think Corey's cut break would pay off. Maybe Corey could go regardless to be a break coach.
Here was the article Mike H asked me to write for az on the cut break.
The Cut Break
A few days after the Mosconi Cup, I was in Best Billiards hitting some balls when a few people got chatting about the break and how the Europeans had it mastered like an art. They continued about how the Americans were really struggling to come to terms with it, not making the 3 points for a legal break, as well as losing the cue ball.
For anyone who doesn’t understand the 3-point rule, I will explain it briefly. Every pocketed ball counts as a point and every ball that passes the head-string also counts as a point. The breaker needs 3 points to make a legal break; otherwise, control of the table is handed over to the other team.
I was asked if I could explain why the Americans were struggling so much with the break as well why the most important shot of the game was in fact, the break.
I explained that it’s my opinion that the break should have been practiced religiously everyday before the cup until it was second nature to the players. I’m not sure if the coach done this, but it would be the first thing on my list in preparing my team (as this is where the cup is won and lost).
The difference with the break in the Mosconi Cup compared to most other tournaments (especially where the American players are concerned) is that the European players are used to the 9 ball being on the spot and not the 1 ball (as it’s played in the Mosconi Cup, Euro tour, GB9 tour etc.).
The cut break is a controlled medium power shot, one tip of draw and half a tip of outside english. The cue ball should come off the side rail and out into the centre of the table. The wing ball (and balls behind the wing ball) will be squeezed into the corner pocket and the one ball will come off the side rail and up towards the top pocket.
Breaking with the nine ball on the spot requires a totally different break technique. This, combined with the 3 point rule, made the American players think they have to hit the balls harder with the cut break in order to make the 3 points. This is a big no-no in my book as you lose the cue ball. But, did they adjust and figure this out?
This made me ponder on whether the American team was much worse than the European team at the cut break, or if the match was lost elsewhere? So, I decided to study every break in the Mosconi Cup and I came up with my own break-analysis for every player below.
I also ranked them with the following metrics:
How I think they performed with their break compared to their team mates
If they hit the one ball too hard or too thin
If they applied too much spin and lost control of the cue ball
And how and if they adjusted to the break each day
Team Europe
Ralf – Day 1, 4 breaks - Too hard. Controlled. (touch too thin). Too thin. Good break controlled.
Day 2, 5 breaks - Too thin (lucky). Good break. Too thin. Too thin & hard (lucky). Good break.
Day 3, 2 breaks - Good break. Good break. (touch hard).
Niels – Day 1, 4 breaks - Controlled. (kicked unlucky). Controlled. Touch hard. Controlled (unlucky).
Day 2, 3 breaks - Good break (kicked unlucky). Good break. Too thin.
Day 3, 5 breaks - Good break touch hard. Good break (lucky). Good break. Too thin. Too thin.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Good break (unlucky). Too full. Good break (unlucky). Too thin.
Daz – Day 1, 3 breaks - Controlled. Too thin. Good break (kicked).
Day 2, 3 breaks - Too thin. Good break (unlucky). Too thin.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Good break. Too thin. Too full. Good break (touch left). Good break (touch left).Too thin.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Too thin. Too thin. Too thin. Good break.
Nick – Day 1, 3 breaks - Controlled (lucky). Good break controlled. Good break controlled.
Day 2, 6 breaks - Good break. Too thin. Too full (lucky). Too full, Too thin (lucky). Good break.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Too thin. Good break. Too thin. Good break. Good break (kicked). Too much spin.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Good break (touch too much spin). Good break. Too thin. Good break (touch too much spin).
Chris – Day 1, 9 breaks - Controlled (unlucky). Too thin (lucky). Too full. Too thin. Good break (unlucky). Touch too full (lucky). Good break. Controlled. Good break (unlucky).
Day 2, 5 breaks - Good break. Good break (unlucky). Good break (kicked scratch unlucky). Perfect break, Good break (unlucky).
Day 3, 4 breaks - Good break. Good break (kicked). Too thin. Good break.
Team Europe analysis
Rank #1 - Chris Melling 72.22%
13 out of the 18 breaks he had were good or controlled, 3 were too thin and 2 too full.
#2 – Niels Feijen 62.50%
10 out of the 16 breaks he had were good or controlled, 4 were too thin, 1 was too full, & 1 too hard.
#3 – Nick Van den berg 57.89%
11 out of the 19 breaks he had were good or controlled, 5 were too thin, 2 were too full & 1 had too much spin.
#4 - Ralf Souquet 54.54%
6 out of the 11 breaks he had were good or controlled, 4 were too thin & 1 was too hard.
#5 – Darren Appleton 43.75%
7 out of the 16 breaks he had were good or controlled, 8 were too thin, & 1 was too full.
Team USA
Johnny – Day 1, 3 breaks - Too hard,. Too hard. Too hard & thin.
Day 2, 6 breaks - Good break. Touch too thin. Too thin (lucky). Good break. Too thin (kicked scratch). Good break.
Day 3, 2 breaks - Good break. Too full.
Day 4, 5 breaks - Good break. Too thin & hard. Good break (golden). Good break. Too much spin.
Mike – Day 1, 3 breaks - Good break. Too hard & too much spin (lucky). Good break.
Day 2, 4 breaks - Too hard & too much spin. Good break. Good break. Too thin.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Too hard & thin. Good break unlucky. Too thin kicked. Too thin. Good break. Too thin.
Shane – Day 1, 10 breaks - Too full. Too full. Too full (lost control scratched). Too hard & too much spin (lucky). Too hard & too much spin. Good break. Good break. Too full. Too thin. Controlled (unlucky).
Day 2, 5 breaks - Too thin. Too full Too much spin Good break (golden). Good break (unlucky).
Day 3, 5 breaks - Too much spin. Too much spin. Good break. Good break. Good break.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Good break (kicked). Too much spin. Too much spin. Too much spin (lucky).
Shawn - Day 1, 3 breaks - Too hard (lost cueball). Too hard. Too hard uncontrolled (lucky).
Day 2, 3 breaks - Good break. Too thin & hard. Too hard.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Too hard. Good break. Good break. Good break. Good break. Too full.
Rodney – Day 1, 3 breaks - Too full (Scratch). Too thin & too hard. Too hard (no control).
Day 2, 4 breaks - Good break. Too hard & thin (kicked lucky). Too hard (lucky). Too hard (scratched).
Day 3, 2 breaks - Too thin & hard (scratched). Good break.
Day 4, 5 breaks - Too hard & too much spin. Good break (unlucky). Too hard & too much spin. Too much spin. Good break.
Team Usa Analysis
Rank #1 – Mike Dechaine 46.15%
6 out of the 13 breaks he had were good or controlled, 5 were too thin, 2 had too much spin & power.
#2 – Johnny Archer 43.75%
7 out of the 16 breaks he had were good or controlled, 4 were too thin, 3 were too hard, 1 was too full & 1 had too much spin on it.
#3 – Shawn Putnam 41.66%
5 out of the 12 breaks he had were good or controlled, 1 was too thin, 5 were too hard & 1 was too full.
#4 – Shane Van Boening 37.50%
9 out of the 24 breaks he had were good or controlled, 8 had too much spin, 5 were too full & 2 were too thin.
#5 – Rodney Morris 28.57%
4 out of the 14 breaks he had were good or controlled, 3 were too thin & hard. 3 were too hard, 3 were too hard with too much spin & 1 was too full
Ranking table Europe and USA combined
#1 – Chris Melling 72.22%
#2 – Niels Feijen 62.50%
#3 – Nick Van den berg 57.89%
#4 – Ralf Souquet 54.54%
#5 – Mike Dechaine 46.15%
#6 – Darren Appleton 43.75%
#7 – Johnny Archer 43.75%
#8 – Shawn Putnam 41.66%
#9 – Shane Van Boening 37.50%
#10 – Rodney Morris 28.57%
Most scratches – Rodney Morris 3.
Golden breaks – Shane Van Boening & Johnny Archer 1 each.
So do I think was the mosconi cup won and lost on the break, not necessarily. But one thing it does show, the Europeans had a huge advantage over their American counterparts, and the cut break played a huge part of this.Chris Melling played the perfect cut break during his doubles match with Ralf, against Rodney & Shane.
Here is the link forward to 9.05 – this is the perfect example of how to play the cut break with the 9 on the spot.Regards Lee Brett
The Cut Break
A few days after the Mosconi Cup, I was in Best Billiards hitting some balls when a few people got chatting about the break and how the Europeans had it mastered like an art. They continued about how the Americans were really struggling to come to terms with it, not making the 3 points for a legal break, as well as losing the cue ball.
For anyone who doesn’t understand the 3-point rule, I will explain it briefly. Every pocketed ball counts as a point and every ball that passes the head-string also counts as a point. The breaker needs 3 points to make a legal break; otherwise, control of the table is handed over to the other team.
I was asked if I could explain why the Americans were struggling so much with the break as well why the most important shot of the game was in fact, the break.
I explained that it’s my opinion that the break should have been practiced religiously everyday before the cup until it was second nature to the players. I’m not sure if the coach done this, but it would be the first thing on my list in preparing my team (as this is where the cup is won and lost).
The difference with the break in the Mosconi Cup compared to most other tournaments (especially where the American players are concerned) is that the European players are used to the 9 ball being on the spot and not the 1 ball (as it’s played in the Mosconi Cup, Euro tour, GB9 tour etc.).
The cut break is a controlled medium power shot, one tip of draw and half a tip of outside english. The cue ball should come off the side rail and out into the centre of the table. The wing ball (and balls behind the wing ball) will be squeezed into the corner pocket and the one ball will come off the side rail and up towards the top pocket.
Breaking with the nine ball on the spot requires a totally different break technique. This, combined with the 3 point rule, made the American players think they have to hit the balls harder with the cut break in order to make the 3 points. This is a big no-no in my book as you lose the cue ball. But, did they adjust and figure this out?
This made me ponder on whether the American team was much worse than the European team at the cut break, or if the match was lost elsewhere? So, I decided to study every break in the Mosconi Cup and I came up with my own break-analysis for every player below.
I also ranked them with the following metrics:
How I think they performed with their break compared to their team mates
If they hit the one ball too hard or too thin
If they applied too much spin and lost control of the cue ball
And how and if they adjusted to the break each day
Team Europe
Ralf – Day 1, 4 breaks - Too hard. Controlled. (touch too thin). Too thin. Good break controlled.
Day 2, 5 breaks - Too thin (lucky). Good break. Too thin. Too thin & hard (lucky). Good break.
Day 3, 2 breaks - Good break. Good break. (touch hard).
Niels – Day 1, 4 breaks - Controlled. (kicked unlucky). Controlled. Touch hard. Controlled (unlucky).
Day 2, 3 breaks - Good break (kicked unlucky). Good break. Too thin.
Day 3, 5 breaks - Good break touch hard. Good break (lucky). Good break. Too thin. Too thin.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Good break (unlucky). Too full. Good break (unlucky). Too thin.
Daz – Day 1, 3 breaks - Controlled. Too thin. Good break (kicked).
Day 2, 3 breaks - Too thin. Good break (unlucky). Too thin.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Good break. Too thin. Too full. Good break (touch left). Good break (touch left).Too thin.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Too thin. Too thin. Too thin. Good break.
Nick – Day 1, 3 breaks - Controlled (lucky). Good break controlled. Good break controlled.
Day 2, 6 breaks - Good break. Too thin. Too full (lucky). Too full, Too thin (lucky). Good break.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Too thin. Good break. Too thin. Good break. Good break (kicked). Too much spin.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Good break (touch too much spin). Good break. Too thin. Good break (touch too much spin).
Chris – Day 1, 9 breaks - Controlled (unlucky). Too thin (lucky). Too full. Too thin. Good break (unlucky). Touch too full (lucky). Good break. Controlled. Good break (unlucky).
Day 2, 5 breaks - Good break. Good break (unlucky). Good break (kicked scratch unlucky). Perfect break, Good break (unlucky).
Day 3, 4 breaks - Good break. Good break (kicked). Too thin. Good break.
Team Europe analysis
Rank #1 - Chris Melling 72.22%
13 out of the 18 breaks he had were good or controlled, 3 were too thin and 2 too full.
#2 – Niels Feijen 62.50%
10 out of the 16 breaks he had were good or controlled, 4 were too thin, 1 was too full, & 1 too hard.
#3 – Nick Van den berg 57.89%
11 out of the 19 breaks he had were good or controlled, 5 were too thin, 2 were too full & 1 had too much spin.
#4 - Ralf Souquet 54.54%
6 out of the 11 breaks he had were good or controlled, 4 were too thin & 1 was too hard.
#5 – Darren Appleton 43.75%
7 out of the 16 breaks he had were good or controlled, 8 were too thin, & 1 was too full.
Team USA
Johnny – Day 1, 3 breaks - Too hard,. Too hard. Too hard & thin.
Day 2, 6 breaks - Good break. Touch too thin. Too thin (lucky). Good break. Too thin (kicked scratch). Good break.
Day 3, 2 breaks - Good break. Too full.
Day 4, 5 breaks - Good break. Too thin & hard. Good break (golden). Good break. Too much spin.
Mike – Day 1, 3 breaks - Good break. Too hard & too much spin (lucky). Good break.
Day 2, 4 breaks - Too hard & too much spin. Good break. Good break. Too thin.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Too hard & thin. Good break unlucky. Too thin kicked. Too thin. Good break. Too thin.
Shane – Day 1, 10 breaks - Too full. Too full. Too full (lost control scratched). Too hard & too much spin (lucky). Too hard & too much spin. Good break. Good break. Too full. Too thin. Controlled (unlucky).
Day 2, 5 breaks - Too thin. Too full Too much spin Good break (golden). Good break (unlucky).
Day 3, 5 breaks - Too much spin. Too much spin. Good break. Good break. Good break.
Day 4, 4 breaks - Good break (kicked). Too much spin. Too much spin. Too much spin (lucky).
Shawn - Day 1, 3 breaks - Too hard (lost cueball). Too hard. Too hard uncontrolled (lucky).
Day 2, 3 breaks - Good break. Too thin & hard. Too hard.
Day 3, 6 breaks - Too hard. Good break. Good break. Good break. Good break. Too full.
Rodney – Day 1, 3 breaks - Too full (Scratch). Too thin & too hard. Too hard (no control).
Day 2, 4 breaks - Good break. Too hard & thin (kicked lucky). Too hard (lucky). Too hard (scratched).
Day 3, 2 breaks - Too thin & hard (scratched). Good break.
Day 4, 5 breaks - Too hard & too much spin. Good break (unlucky). Too hard & too much spin. Too much spin. Good break.
Team Usa Analysis
Rank #1 – Mike Dechaine 46.15%
6 out of the 13 breaks he had were good or controlled, 5 were too thin, 2 had too much spin & power.
#2 – Johnny Archer 43.75%
7 out of the 16 breaks he had were good or controlled, 4 were too thin, 3 were too hard, 1 was too full & 1 had too much spin on it.
#3 – Shawn Putnam 41.66%
5 out of the 12 breaks he had were good or controlled, 1 was too thin, 5 were too hard & 1 was too full.
#4 – Shane Van Boening 37.50%
9 out of the 24 breaks he had were good or controlled, 8 had too much spin, 5 were too full & 2 were too thin.
#5 – Rodney Morris 28.57%
4 out of the 14 breaks he had were good or controlled, 3 were too thin & hard. 3 were too hard, 3 were too hard with too much spin & 1 was too full
Ranking table Europe and USA combined
#1 – Chris Melling 72.22%
#2 – Niels Feijen 62.50%
#3 – Nick Van den berg 57.89%
#4 – Ralf Souquet 54.54%
#5 – Mike Dechaine 46.15%
#6 – Darren Appleton 43.75%
#7 – Johnny Archer 43.75%
#8 – Shawn Putnam 41.66%
#9 – Shane Van Boening 37.50%
#10 – Rodney Morris 28.57%
Most scratches – Rodney Morris 3.
Golden breaks – Shane Van Boening & Johnny Archer 1 each.
So do I think was the mosconi cup won and lost on the break, not necessarily. But one thing it does show, the Europeans had a huge advantage over their American counterparts, and the cut break played a huge part of this.Chris Melling played the perfect cut break during his doubles match with Ralf, against Rodney & Shane.
Here is the link forward to 9.05 – this is the perfect example of how to play the cut break with the 9 on the spot.Regards Lee Brett
If I were to trust these stats Lee/Mike - and I have no reason to believe otherwise - it's like playing golf where Europe gets to play from the ladies tee and USA plays from the tips. Huge is not a huge enough word.
Johnny and Buddy - are you listening? Errr, reading?
WAIT!!! Lee, you're a Brit! WTF? It must be propaganda!
Johnny and Buddy - are you listening? Errr, reading?
WAIT!!! Lee, you're a Brit! WTF? It must be propaganda!
Good point
Maybe Neil was giving team U.S.A. a back handed offering to coach them on the cut break...
before he got B*tch slapped. Pow !
Maybe Neil was giving team U.S.A. a back handed offering to coach them on the cut break...
before he got B*tch slapped. Pow !
Hitting the "Cut Break" is like having to hit a giant "Slice Serve" in tennis,
Hitting the "Cut Break" is like having to hit a giant "Slice Serve" in tennis, or a big Slice/Hook in golf......it's not a regular pool shot, it's a "specialty shot," and it makes the American Pros uncomfortable because there's SO MUCH luck involved.....although, in this case "consistent luck is a skill".
'The Game is the Teacher'
If I were to trust these stats Lee/Mike - and I have no reason to believe otherwise - it's like playing golf where Europe gets to play from the ladies tee and USA plays from the tips. Huge is not a huge enough word.
Johnny and Buddy - are you listening? Errr, reading?
WAIT!!! Lee, you're a Brit! WTF? It must be propaganda!
Hitting the "Cut Break" is like having to hit a giant "Slice Serve" in tennis, or a big Slice/Hook in golf......it's not a regular pool shot, it's a "specialty shot," and it makes the American Pros uncomfortable because there's SO MUCH luck involved.....although, in this case "consistent luck is a skill".
'The Game is the Teacher'
am i h-i-g-h ?
or did i hear somewhere, that you are an expert in
TRICK SHOTS
<----the TRICK SHOT is the LESSON @ the TODAY SHOW.
Thanks CJ. It just boggles my mind that this cut shot is so difficult to manage. I know you have to have the CB dance near the side pocket, but what makes it so dang hard that "we americans" can't pick up on it well enough?
The breaker is trying to make the one ball in the opposite side, right? And leave the CB center table?
You could hit the "Cut Break" as well as possible, and scratch several times
While playing championship pool the object is to cut down and/or eliminate as many variables as possible involving spin, speed, or cue ball distance (in most cases).
With the cut break all these factors are broken and you use an unusual speed, spin and the cue ball is drawn to the rail, then out through the middle of the table where the object balls are miscellaneously speeding by.
You could hit the "Cut Break" as well as possible, and scratch several times....or get kicked by object balls many times during a match....this has an element of control, but the luck factor is higher than most shots you'll see in the entire match. Someone can also hit the break poorly, get kissed every time, make a ball and get straight in on the next shot......this is what makes it such a "crap shoot".
While playing championship pool the object is to cut down and/or eliminate as many variables as possible involving spin, speed, or cue ball distance (in most cases).
With the cut break all these factors are broken and you use an unusual speed, spin and the cue ball is drawn to the rail, then out through the middle of the table where the object balls are miscellaneously speeding by.
You could hit the "Cut Break" as well as possible, and scratch several times....or get kicked by object balls many times during a match....this has an element of control, but the luck factor is higher than most shots you'll see in the entire match. Someone can also hit the break poorly, get kissed every time, make a ball and get straight in on the next shot......this is what makes it such a "crap shoot".
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