Where is the center of the CB?

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
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I was telling someone about the tangent line. I set a chalk cube on a rail for a target point. After I hit a couple of shots myself, he tried to do it.

Every shot he hit would drift forward of the stun line. I told him he wasn't hitting the center of the CB. He told me that he was hitting center ball.

Observing where he was contacting the CB I could see he was hitting the vertical centerline but hitting high on the ball. How could I show him?

I put a chalk cube on the table and told him to lay the ferrule on the chalk. I said that was the height as the CB centerline. He said it was too low.

A Master or Triangle chalk cube is .875 of an inch. A 13mm cue tip is about 1/2 inch. The center height of the shaft on the chalk is about 1.125.

Set a chalk cube next to a cue ball and rest a cue on the chalk cube. A good way to show someone the cue ball center. The cue should be level.
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I was telling someone about the tangent line. I set a chalk cube on a rail for a target point. After I hit a couple of shots myself, he tried to do it.

Every shot he hit would drift forward of the stun line. I told him he wasn't hitting the center of the CB. He told me that he was hitting center ball.

Observing where he was contacting the CB I could see he was hitting the vertical centerline but hitting high on the ball. How could I show him?

I put a chalk cube on the table and told him to lay the ferrule on the chalk. I said that was the height as the CB centerline. He said it was too low.

A Master or Triangle chalk cube is .900 of an inch. A 13mm cue tip is about 1/2 inch. The center height of the shaft on the chalk is about 1.125.

Set a chalk cube next to a cue ball and rest a cue on the chalk cube. A good way to show someone the cue ball center. The cue should be level.
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I just tell them to use TOI and then just move the cue outside a touch.
 
The 'playing' center of the cue ball can be elusive. I have to 'find' it every day on every cue ball an every table. I shoot stop shots to see where to hit the cue ball. Once I find it, I hit center ball shots to find my 'medium' stroke for that session on that table. Then I know what any english will do. Takes about 10-15 mins on the table, and well worth the time.
ps
A lot of right handed players hit the cue ball a little to the right of center thinking its the real center. Its an optics illusion. Take a long straight in shot and hit the cue with a 'hair' of inside ( left for a right handed player ) and watch how many more balls you pocket. You're hitting the 'real' center of the cue ball.
 
The 'playing' center of the cue ball can be elusive. I have to 'find' it every day on every cue ball an every table. I shoot stop shots to see where to hit the cue ball. Once I find it, I hit center ball shots to find my 'medium' stroke for that session on that table. Then I know what any english will do. Takes about 10-15 mins on the table, and well worth the time.
ps
A lot of right handed players hit the cue ball a little to the right of center thinking its the real center. Its an optics illusion. Take a long straight in shot and hit the cue with a 'hair' of inside ( left for a right handed player ) and watch how many more balls you pocket. You're hitting the 'real' center of the cue ball.


Good post

John
 
In the Heart or the Core of a sphere.

randyg




I was telling someone about the tangent line. I set a chalk cube on a rail for a target point. After I hit a couple of shots myself, he tried to do it.

Every shot he hit would drift forward of the stun line. I told him he wasn't hitting the center of the CB. He told me that he was hitting center ball.

Observing where he was contacting the CB I could see he was hitting the vertical centerline but hitting high on the ball. How could I show him?

I put a chalk cube on the table and told him to lay the ferrule on the chalk. I said that was the height as the CB centerline. He said it was too low.

A Master or Triangle chalk cube is .875 of an inch. A 13mm cue tip is about 1/2 inch. The center height of the shaft on the chalk is about 1.125.

Set a chalk cube next to a cue ball and rest a cue on the chalk cube. A good way to show someone the cue ball center. The cue should be level.
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What about the part where you can hit dead center cue ball but forward roll starts soon after the slide wears off and then the cue ball would still roll off the tangent line.

You either have to hit hard center so the cue ball slides the whole way or lower on the cue ball.
 
What about the part where you can hit dead center cue ball but forward roll starts soon after the slide wears off and then the cue ball would still roll off the tangent line.

You either have to hit hard center so the cue ball slides the whole way or lower on the cue ball.

I was showing him the stun line on a short (less than 2') cut shot. He couldn't find center ball.
 
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What about the part where you can hit dead center cue ball but forward roll starts soon after the slide wears off and then the cue ball would still roll off the tangent line.

You either have to hit hard center so the cue ball slides the whole way or lower on the cue ball.

You got it.

It's about the distance, speed, & tip placement combined.

Personally, I find in more difficult to play for a 'true' tangent than 'creating' one with spin. To me using either top or low to get the CB on a certain line is easier than trying to get it to hit with just the slide. To me there is a larger margin for a bit of error with the spin.

Best,
Rick
 
What about the part where you can hit dead center cue ball but forward roll starts soon after the slide wears off and then the cue ball would still roll off the tangent line.

You either have to hit hard center so the cue ball slides the whole way or lower on the cue ball.


It took to post # 6 for this to be said.

Where the center of the CB is has NOTHING to do with where do I have to hit the CB in order for it to be sliding when it contacts the OB.

And .... it is in two different places for two different people with the two balls in the identical position to boot!

( In a less than 2' shot there is plenty of time to pick up a little forward roll.)
 
Big Misunderstanding About Center Ball Strokes

Yes.......absolutely.....center ball is essential for elevating one's game......it is indispensable, and since sooooooo many players use excessive English, almost as if they were just showing off they mastered horizontal English......duh.........how dumb. One never masters the use of English. One simply becomes experienced to distinguish the amount required to successfully relocate the cue ball to a desired target area for the next shot........and of course, always remaining on the correct hemisphere side of the target object ball shot.

Hitting center ball is very simple and easy.....anyone can do it....but doing that shot without imparting unintentional horizontal spin is a little more difficult........most players can't do it two times in a row, let alone once. Doubt me..............try this.

Take all seven (7) object balls 9 thru 15 and line them up in the kitchen 6-8 inches spaced apart, or thereabout, on the head rail line (where you break) in a straight line. Position the stripes on each ball perpendicular to the table (180 degrees). Now stroke each striped ball to the bottom rail and back and try hitting the cue tip on the cue in your bridge hand. Don't strike the balls hard or you cannot get a true accurate read on the roll. Only hit the balls with medium speed, i.e., down & back, on a 9' table.

If you are really, truly hitting center ball, not only will the cue ball return to your cue tip and stop (not glance off) but the roll on every striped ball should be completely free of "all wiggle or wobble. The ball should roll totally smooth and the stripe should not move, wiggle or wobble.....it should be perfectly straight. How many attempts before you get it the first time? How long before you can get 2 balls in a row? Will you ever get all 7 balls in a row to roll without wiggle or wobble to the stripe? Probably not, unless you start cheating and hit the balls harder to use physics to disguise your otherwise imperfect hit of the cue ball.

Why is this so hard then? It's because you haven't yet distinguished in your own mind there's a big, significant difference in hitting the center of the cue ball and stroking through the center of the cue ball. So if you hit the center of the cue ball dead on but you cue stoke is hitting the ball with a 1 or 1.5 degree angle.........instead of 180 degrees, you hit the center of the cue ball but finish with a stroke direction of 179 degrees or 181 degrees instead of 180 degrees straight on, then you impart unintended horizontal spin on the ball and the further the cue ball travels, the more the spin comes into play and of course, speed is another variable as well.

I always practice by starting out with the 7 striped balls and I do this twice........by the second attempt, I have expectations about how the roll should look and when I'm done, I have a good idea whether I'm seeing my aim point clearly or my stroke is relaxed and smooth. You can't do this drill successfully with bad mechanics and the trick is in completing the stroke........You must think of the cue penetrating the cue ball and coming out the other side in a straight line (180 degrees)..........when you do this and the cue has even the slightest deviation of >0.25 degrees, the cue ball will acquire horizontal rotation in its roll path and thus be affected unlike like a cue ball that was hit with center ball and rolled 100% true.......except for crappy table rolls that we all encounter with pool hall tables.

Remember this.....all pool players have days where they shoot better than average.......we think our game is "on" or "I'm seeing the balls so clear" or "The pockets look huge today" etc. So the same applies to this simple check.........there'll be days when you stroke the 7 striped balls much better than on another occasion......those will be the days where you tend to plat better too......adopt this simple exercise which only takes 2-3 minutes at most which is which I do it twice. The first seven balls allows me to try adjusting my stroke to achieve perfection which sometimes happens with my first striped ball. The second 7 balls allows me to focus and mentally envision the stroke's straight path, veleocity of my stroke and I listen to the sound of the cue ball more closely.

That's it.....14 striped balls takes ....what......3-4-5 minutes. It will tell you if you're going to have a strong play session or more likley struggle a little, especially on long cut shots and frozen object ball shots. Try it.....ya got nothing to lose and a whole lot to learn.............Oh Yeah, most important tip is you must stay down in your shooting profile/position in order to watch the striped ball roll and do not get up until the ball stops rolling. If the ball starts wiggling/wobbling right out of the chute, you'll see it clearly just as much as you'll better appreciate a striped ball that was struck perfectly. When you hit 4-5 balls in a row and the roll is perfect, you'll feel a lot more confident in your game.......This really does work.
 
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Take a stripe as the cue ball. Put the stripe horizontal. Then angle it up by the same angle as the cue stick elevation so that the stripe is "parallel" to the stick when the stick hits the ball. The middle of the stripe is the center of the ball. If the number is in an eye in the stripe, it can help to find the center by placing the eye towards the shooter.

Of course as others have mentioned, the cue ball hit perfectly in the center will get follow even on a 2-foot travel to the object ball. A small correction to something that was said above: The cue ball gradually acquires follow the whole time it is moving forward on the cloth until it is rolling smoothly. It does not suddenly go from slide to roll.

Be sure to explain the last paragraph to your student. Make sure they know that center ball will almost never get a stun shot. Instead the cue ball must be hit below center by a distance that is matched to the distance to the object ball, the speed of the shot, and the stickiness of the cloth. Have your student do stun shots at three different distances and with three different distances below center.
 
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For years I thought I was hitting the center of the cue ball but I wasn't. It's an optical allusion for me. I have to appear to be putting right english on the cue ball for me to hit it in the center. I've had a feeling for some time now that it may not be as isolated an incident as I first thought.
 
Take a stripe as the cue ball. Put the stripe horizontal. Then angle it up by the same angle as the cue stick elevation so that the stripe is "parallel" to the stick when the stick hits the ball. The middle of the stripe is the center of the ball. ...
And if you look at the stripe after the shot, you can see where the chalk spot is. You may want to mark the top of the "cue ball" so you can tell whether the chalk spot is above or below center.
 
It is possible to hit center ball and have this happen. If the ball is hit softly it will start to roll not skid when it hits the object ball. This is the same as hitting above center. After contact, the cue ball will follow the tangent line for a very little and then start to roll. This is the same putting follow on the cue ball.
I have shown people how to make the cue ball stop on contact when the object ball in sitting right in front of the pocket. I have then watched them continue to make the cue follow the object right into the pocket. They insist they hit the cue ball low. The problem is that they hit the cue ball so low that it was rolling on contact, not skidding.
 
Please see post #11.

What about applying this same thinking to the up & down direction of hitting not only where intended but how intended. What cue stick angle differential could occur if the tip arcs up or down during contact. If the tip is arcing in one direction it is because the butt/hand is going in the other direction just like in the side to side direction. Will the CB arrive with the exact slide one predicts or will it have a bit more under spin or more roll than intended.

Best,
Rick
 
Please see post #11.

What about applying this same thinking to the up & down direction of hitting not only where intended but how intended. What cue stick angle differential could occur if the tip arcs up or down during contact. If the tip is arcing in one direction it is because the butt/hand is going in the other direction just like in the side to side direction. Will the CB arrive with the exact slide one predicts or will it have a bit more under spin or more roll than intended.

Best,
Rick


I would say sure it can arrive with the predicted slide, but it may only be because the shooter compensates unconsciously for his or her individual stroke with speed. The prediction is based on the stroke and speed.
 
I would say sure it can arrive with the predicted slide, but it may only be because the shooter compensates unconsciously for his or her individual stroke with speed. The prediction is based on the stroke and speed.

Thanks.

What I was 'talking' about is since the tip is arcing in a fixed elbow pendulum stroke, and does not travel straight during contact from initiation to separation, (I would say it usually arcs downward) why would that perfect straight cue line only be important when hitting 'center' for the side to side direction & not in the up & down direction? If it is important in the side to side direction, why would it not also be important for the up & down direction where spin is concerned? And if it is a concern, then how much more important would a perfect set up be for a fixed elbow pendulum stroke since the arcing transitions from arcing up to arcing down? If the set up is not perfect then on which arc will the tip make contact with the CB?

Best Wishes,
Rick
 
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, it's not prudent to bet you can hit the "center" of the cue ball shot after shot

For years I thought I was hitting the center of the cue ball but I wasn't. It's an optical allusion for me. I have to appear to be putting right english on the cue ball for me to hit it in the center. I've had a feeling for some time now that it may not be as isolated an incident as I first thought.

That's right, it is a {systematic} illusion - it's not prudent to bet you can hit the "center" of the cue ball shot after shot, day after day.

When you're betting "lots of chips" on a regular basis [like we used to] it's better to go ahead and favor a side...east or west..north or south...inside or outside" ...choose wisely.

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Maybe he was hitting centre ball. Because he wasn't stunning the ball perfectly doesn't mean he wasn't hitting centre ball. 2' is plenty of space to get the CB rolling if you don't hit the shot firm.

Firstly, I hardly use a true centre ball hit. Only time I'll use it is if CB-OB distance is short and/or I need to power a ball in because I haven't left enough angle. The stun shot however is something I use often, and rarely will I hit centre ball. Mostly its .5-1 tip below, and could even be as much as 'maximum draw' tip position.

There is no relation between centre ball and the tangent line. The relation is sliding CB and tangent line. Teach him how to get the CB sliding upon contact rather than asking him to hit centre ball.
 
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