i dont understand the hype about ld shafts
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
You can shoot the exact same shot with an LD shaft and get the same "fullness" of hit. LD shafts don't affect the swerve so if you hit them both at the same speed with the same angle into the cloth, either an LD cue or a regular cue will swerve the same amount. The difference with the LD cue is the direction the CB starts off in, so you'd have to aim further out on the OB.
I understand your need to defend your product.. and I'm sure you will understand the giant grain of salt that I have to take with your post..
on the one hand we have the claims that LD shafts require less adjustment.. but now you are saying it needs to be pointed further away from the shot line..Which is it??
I do not deny that low end mass changes the line of the CB but in this post you are saying the lines are the same... Which is it??
I'm not denying that low endmass shafts play different than solid maple shafts.. that's not hype
saying they play better than regular shafts IS hype..
you are selling these things to low level Leauge players with the promise of increased ability.. but the reality is you are putting them right back at square one.. what little experience they had is now worthless..
you get good at pool on the table not in the pro shop..
have a nice day
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Lol ill tell em. You sir can get the 6 out after hearing this.
LOL crying uncle already?? I'll play you even when do you get here?? Bring Chris I'll play him even too...
I know you big time gamblers don't practice or work on your game.. you just sit in the chair till some money shows up..
But I have a nice drill that really dials in squirt and compensation...If you are interested.. only cost you $300... and that skill will last longer than a new shaft
Matt,
I think we are mis-communicating in some way & are basically saying the same thing. It is this type of shot where the LD shaft sort of reverses the problem in the opposite direction.
Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
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the line us only different...
The line the cue ball travels is no different when you make a shot.the only difference is the relation of the line of the shaft and the path of the cue ball...
Jaden
I understand your need to defend your product.. and I'm sure you will understand the giant grain of salt that I have to take with your post..
on the one hand we have the claims that LD shafts require less adjustment.. but now you are saying it needs to be pointed further away from the shot line..Which is it??
I do not deny that low end mass changes the line of the CB but in this post you are saying the lines are the same... Which is it??
I'm not denying that low endmass shafts play different than solid maple shafts.. that's not hype
saying they play better than regular shafts IS hype..
you are selling these things to low level Leauge players with the promise of increased ability.. but the reality is you are putting them right back at square one.. what little experience they had is now worthless..
you get good at pool on the table not in the pro shop..
have a nice day
The line the cue ball travels is no different when you make a shot.the only difference is the relation of the line of the shaft and the path of the cue ball...
Jaden
preach on professor.. I always thought squirt was part of the line...so now you are saying eliminating squirt doesn't change the line....:scratchhead::scratchhead:
I don't think you know what you are talking about..
and BTW it's not a "low" deflection shaft it's a HIGH deflection shaft.. the shaft deflects MORE not less... it's descriptor is even a lie...
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The elimination of squirt doesn't happen. The *reduction* of squirt, however, is just another tool. You just don't get it. Your posts indicate a fundamental misunderstanding of the topic. Here is a simple question for you. We grab 10 APA 4's at random from across the country. We give them a Predator Z2 shaft, and some solid maple shaft with an ivory ferrule. Same tip. We set up a series of extreme english shots. 3 rails around with inside, etc. My guess is that regardless of what they are used to, they would miss less balls with the Z2. Do you disagree? We are talking *extreme* shots that these players have probably never really attempted before. If I am right, then any talk of the differences being "hype" are out the window. The simple *fact* is that LD shafts make pocketing balls with english easier. Of course there will be great great players that are very used to a standard shaft and can do all those shots just fine. But even if 100% of the players out there could do those shots with standard shafts, they are still easier with LD shafts. (Easier to *learn*). I always am puzzled why there is so much resistance to these simple ideas. If you like your standard shaft, great! Enjoy. I just don't see the need to make claims based on personal biases rather than factual scientific information. Heck, Donnie Mills shoots pretty damn awesome. He says LD shafts make shooting with english easier, especially inside. He isn't stupid, and I bet he plays better than anyone in this thread. Is he wrong? Are all the many many top name pros that play with LD shafts wrong to? Are they wasting their time? I mean come on...think about it a little more.
KMRUNOUT
I'm the one who doesn't get it??
go watch the Dr Dave videos again.. maybe take some notes.. get back to me when you get up to speed on the topic...
there are not enough pro players to sell an entire case of LD shafts to.. let alone a production run
they need bangers and lots of em.. so they throw some $$ and free gear and the top .00005% and the bangers lap it up...
marketing is NOT Information
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I've been shooting with english & near the miscue limits for 46 years. During that time I never gave hardly a thought to squirt. Mike Sigel has said that there is no such thing as deflection/squirt. Now did he mean that literally? I don't think so. It's just that you do not want to think about it unless you are going to use it for an advantage.
Since experimenting with CJ Wiley's TOI, I am now focused on the cue ball squirt instead of the swerve. I now want to keep the swerve out of the equation.
Then when I go to shoot a shot with english, the squirt is out of my mind.
To me, the two are better suited to a different type of stroke. If one is using one stroke & switching back & forth, as CJ has said & I would tend to agree, it could drive you nuts.
As to adapting from regular to LD, I did it very quickly even after 46 years with regular shafts. The human mind is an amazing creation. Now that said, if one has been shooting with english in a very mechanical & calculated manner rather than by feel, I could see where it would be more difficult & taxing to make all of the 'new' calculations.
I've shot with both & I would recommend an LD shaft to any newcomer or anyone without a lifetime invested in regular shafts. If one is comfortable with & shoots well with a regular shaft then why should they switch?
I did because it just seems a bit easier & more effective when you get old & the eyes start to go.
But...I could be wrong about it all.
Since experimenting with CJ Wiley's TOI, I am now focused on the cue ball squirt instead of the swerve. I now want to keep the swerve out of the equation.
Then when I go to shoot a shot with english, the squirt is out of my mind.
To me, the two are better suited to a different type of stroke. If one is using one stroke & switching back & forth, as CJ has said & I would tend to agree, it could drive you nuts.
As to adapting from regular to LD, I did it very quickly even after 46 years with regular shafts. The human mind is an amazing creation. Now that said, if one has been shooting with english in a very mechanical & calculated manner rather than by feel, I could see where it would be more difficult & taxing to make all of the 'new' calculations.
I've shot with both & I would recommend an LD shaft to any newcomer or anyone without a lifetime invested in regular shafts. If one is comfortable with & shoots well with a regular shaft then why should they switch?
I did because it just seems a bit easier & more effective when you get old & the eyes start to go.
But...I could be wrong about it all.
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Are you really that stupid???
The people that DO know what they're talking about keep schooling you but all you can do is flap your gums.
Whenever the object ball follows a specific path (i.e. toward the pocket), The cueball follows the same path to get to it.
On an off center hit, (a hit with side spin), the difference between a ld shaft and a standard deflection shaft is how far off of parallel the angle of the shaft is in relation to the path that the cueball takes.
The angle of approach that the cueball is on doesn't change in relation to the object ball. It is therefore impossible to have a fuller hit using a different shaft.
I would've been glad to have educated you cordially if you weren't being a sanctimonious jerk about it.
Jaden
The people that DO know what they're talking about keep schooling you but all you can do is flap your gums.
Whenever the object ball follows a specific path (i.e. toward the pocket), The cueball follows the same path to get to it.
On an off center hit, (a hit with side spin), the difference between a ld shaft and a standard deflection shaft is how far off of parallel the angle of the shaft is in relation to the path that the cueball takes.
The angle of approach that the cueball is on doesn't change in relation to the object ball. It is therefore impossible to have a fuller hit using a different shaft.
I would've been glad to have educated you cordially if you weren't being a sanctimonious jerk about it.
Jaden
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Jaden,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but, it seems that you are speaking of a shot hit with speed so that the swerve does not come into play.
If hit softer the swerve can become the 'dominant factor' & their can be many paths into the same point. They are basically mini masse shots of varying degrees.
Best Wishes,
Rick
wow did you just make that up??
the line the CB takes to the OB when shooting with english is a parabolic curve the parameters include cue speed, tip offset from center(determined from the initial line of the cue which in an apples to apples comparison makes the plywood guys look bad so they don't bring it up because as Mr OB just showed on straighter shots it can be made to appear easier.. but once that curve becomes useful then you have to shoot at nowhere to achieve the line I get shooting pretty much normally), endmass of the cue, ball cleanliness, friction, cloth cleanliness, humidity, gravity, gravity from the moon. ball composition ....and on and on and on..
in point of fact every single shot everywhere in the world is a unique parabolic curve NO LINE is the same EVER
but the ad says drilling a hole in the end of the shaft turns all of it into a nice simple straight line... your next league win is only $300 away..
and you paid up and now refuse to admit you have been hustled..
it's just pride for you at this point isn't it??
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I play with a low deflection full grain maple shaft and I enjoy the game I get from it. If I use my OB products there is a slight adjustment to make. I think most here agree that putting time in on the table is the key to improvement, regardless of shaft style.
I had a reply in the queue to this thread last night that I never sent. I chose not to send it, but it basically was to call a few out to back up their words with some video AND put something on the line. At this point I think it is useless. If anyone here had something to show the forum they would back it up rather than run down players and product. It is great though that this thread was created to give knockers a soapbox.
Happy swerves to all and to all goodnight.
I had a reply in the queue to this thread last night that I never sent. I chose not to send it, but it basically was to call a few out to back up their words with some video AND put something on the line. At this point I think it is useless. If anyone here had something to show the forum they would back it up rather than run down players and product. It is great though that this thread was created to give knockers a soapbox.
Happy swerves to all and to all goodnight.
Yes...
Swerve is mostly a function of the degree of elevation of the cue. So it is mostly due to the amount of friction and the amount of side spin, the less parallel in relation to the table bed the cue is, the more swerve. Felt type can change that, dirtiness of the balls can change that, but these changes and even swerve for all but the softest shots is much more minute than squirt. The biggest cause for missing shots with sidespin is squirt.
There are ways with both types of shafts to adjust easily for squirt for the vast majority of shots.
BHE is the best way once you've found your cues pivot point on a standard shaft, and parallel english and small adjustment for longer shots is the best way for ld shafts.
For a feel player, it is easier to learn from the start with an ld shaft. If you're not using BHE, you have nothing to fall back on with a standard shaft when you get in a slump.
I played with Fat Albert's old McDermott, a couple of seconds after playing with my ld cue and ran a couple of racks using side spin on every shot.
His McDermott had a perfect pivot point in relation to my bridge length.
I played with BHE for years even before I knew what it was called. Efren taught it to me back in 99.
I didn't want to use ld for years either, I thought it was a waste and hype for the most part. Hell, I started using an 09 McDermott cue of the year with an I-2 shaft and I was using BHE bridging way the hell back on it until a friend pointed something out to me and I started doing experiments with it.
That led me to a lot of realizations and looking deeper into it.
Jaden
Swerve is mostly a function of the degree of elevation of the cue. So it is mostly due to the amount of friction and the amount of side spin, the less parallel in relation to the table bed the cue is, the more swerve. Felt type can change that, dirtiness of the balls can change that, but these changes and even swerve for all but the softest shots is much more minute than squirt. The biggest cause for missing shots with sidespin is squirt.
There are ways with both types of shafts to adjust easily for squirt for the vast majority of shots.
BHE is the best way once you've found your cues pivot point on a standard shaft, and parallel english and small adjustment for longer shots is the best way for ld shafts.
For a feel player, it is easier to learn from the start with an ld shaft. If you're not using BHE, you have nothing to fall back on with a standard shaft when you get in a slump.
I played with Fat Albert's old McDermott, a couple of seconds after playing with my ld cue and ran a couple of racks using side spin on every shot.
His McDermott had a perfect pivot point in relation to my bridge length.
I played with BHE for years even before I knew what it was called. Efren taught it to me back in 99.
I didn't want to use ld for years either, I thought it was a waste and hype for the most part. Hell, I started using an 09 McDermott cue of the year with an I-2 shaft and I was using BHE bridging way the hell back on it until a friend pointed something out to me and I started doing experiments with it.
That led me to a lot of realizations and looking deeper into it.
Jaden
I paid up huh???
I designed a LD shaft that has the feel of a standard deflection shaft, I run out with either type of shaft, it doesn't matter to me.
I designed and am about to release a tip that makes any shaft a low deflection shaft, which I have patented.
So NO I didn't buy into ANYTHING...I experimented and discovered and developed.
As to every shot being a parabolic curve, the amount of swerve on the VAST majority of shots is pathetically tiny. Hardly a factor at all, and the shaft makes ZERO difference in the amount of swerve applied, it has to do with the amount of spin and the angle of the cue in relation to the table surface mostly with dirtiness of balls, wear of cloth etc coming in after that.
So again, it looks like you're talking out of your ass.
Jaden
I designed a LD shaft that has the feel of a standard deflection shaft, I run out with either type of shaft, it doesn't matter to me.
I designed and am about to release a tip that makes any shaft a low deflection shaft, which I have patented.
So NO I didn't buy into ANYTHING...I experimented and discovered and developed.
As to every shot being a parabolic curve, the amount of swerve on the VAST majority of shots is pathetically tiny. Hardly a factor at all, and the shaft makes ZERO difference in the amount of swerve applied, it has to do with the amount of spin and the angle of the cue in relation to the table surface mostly with dirtiness of balls, wear of cloth etc coming in after that.
So again, it looks like you're talking out of your ass.
Jaden
His "Squirt/Swerve" ratio was "out of whack".
It takes some time to get used to a new shaft - that's why Dennis Orcollo went into a slump after he got his cue stolen a couple of years ago. His "Squirt/Swerve" ratio was "out of whack".
It takes some time to get used to a new shaft - that's why Dennis Orcollo went into a slump after he got his cue stolen a couple of years ago. His "Squirt/Swerve" ratio was "out of whack".