i dont understand the hype about ld shafts

Also...

Jaden,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but, it seems that you are speaking of a shot hit with speed so that the swerve does not come into play.

If hit softer the swerve can become the 'dominant factor' & their can be many paths into the same point. They are basically mini masse shots of varying degrees.

Best Wishes,
Rick

When more extreme swerve comes into play, there can be more angles to the shot, but for the object ball to go in the same direction, the spin on the cueball and the direction of the cueball will always be the same. The only change between a ld shaft and a standard shaft is the angle of the shaft in relation to the direction of cue ball travel to put the same spin and travel direction on the cue ball.

Jaden
 
I designed a LD shaft that has the feel of a standard deflection shaft, I run out with either type of shaft, it doesn't matter to me.

Bullshit.. you are either in tune with your gear or not.. and sayin you can play with anything is just ego BS.. the Pro taper and small diameter shaft... are a result of old school sanding of the shaft.. the longer you play with it the thinner it becomes.. reducing end mass smaller tip to CB contact... the guy who earned every nanometer of that taper wants another just like that.. but he never gets it because its an impossible order.. the banger next to him has a micrometer and foolishly believes that the shaft is the secret of the game... well it's smaller so it weighs less.. hey drill a hole in it.. make it weigh less.. must be right the pro who bought it said it plays ok...

I designed and am about to release a tip that makes any shaft a low deflection shaft, which I have patented.

really you have a tip that reduces the mass of the final 8 inches of shaft simply by putting it on??? what is that nano-tubes?? string theory?? or is it just bullshit???



So again, it looks like you're talking out of your ass.

Jaden

yup I'm the one making up shit out of whole cloth... you got me:grin-square::grin-square:
 
The proof is in the pudding...

Bullshit.. you are either in tune with your gear or not.. and sayin you can play with anything is just ego BS.. the Pro taper and small diameter shaft... are a result of old school sanding of the shaft.. the longer you play with it the thinner it becomes.. reducing end mass smaller tip to CB contact... the guy who earned every nanometer of that taper wants another just like that.. but he never gets it because its an impossible order.. the banger next to him has a micrometer and foolishly believes that the shaft is the secret of the game... well it's smaller so it weighs less.. hey drill a hole in it.. make it weigh less.. must be right the pro who bought it said it plays ok...



really you have a tip that reduces the mass of the final 8 inches of shaft simply by putting it on??? what is that nano-tubes?? string theory?? or is it just bullshit???





yup I'm the one making up shit out of whole cloth... you got me:grin-square::grin-square:

It doesn't reduce end mass, but it does decrease squirt substantially.

And yes I can play with anything...

Jaden
 
It doesn't reduce end mass, but it does decrease squirt substantially.

And yes I can play with anything...

Jaden

if it doesn't change endmass then it has no effect on squirt.... that's just reality...

I can't help you with the rest of the lies you tell yourself...
 
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Im sorry you're wrong.

if it doesn't change endmass then it has no effect on squirt.... that's just reality...

I can't help you with the rest of the lies you tell yourself...

It's not lies, it is reality.

For now that's all I"m gonna say. I'm sending one to Dr. Dave for confirmation of results, but it absolutely reduces squirt on an unmodified shaft.

It has to do with the actual mechanism that cause squirt, which is NOT end mass.

End mass is a secondary by product of what is actually reducing squirt.

Jaden

p.s. I wouldn't have bothered with the trouble of submitting a patent if I hadn't confirmed and re-confirmed the results.
 
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Try shooting some thin cut shots with extreme inside English with an LD shaft and then maybe you'll look back a couple times.

^ This.

While I can no longer support Predator's shafts (They work great until the ferrule splits in half. I stopped buying them after the second one split after a few months of use) My Capone has Mike's 30" "LD" shaft on it and I don't think I could go back to the standard maple shaft now.

Like Donny mentioned earlier, with shots that require a small amount of english, you hardly have to make any adjustment in aiming at all. The squirt is nearly negligible.

Not saying that LD shafts will make you a champion. Hell... Donny plays with a maple shaft that is so beat up and worn down that the ferrule itself has taper. Its a mess, but he swears by it.

LD Shafts just make this damn difficult game a tiny bit easier.
 
I understand your need to defend your product.. and I'm sure you will understand the giant grain of salt that I have to take with your post..

on the one hand we have the claims that LD shafts require less adjustment.. but now you are saying it needs to be pointed further away from the shot line..Which is it??

I do not deny that low end mass changes the line of the CB but in this post you are saying the lines are the same... Which is it??


I'm not denying that low endmass shafts play different than solid maple shafts.. that's not hype

saying they play better than regular shafts IS hype..

you are selling these things to low level Leauge players with the promise of increased ability.. but the reality is you are putting them right back at square one.. what little experience they had is now worthless..


you get good at pool on the table not in the pro shop..

have a nice day:D


Softshot

It looks like you're a night time guy, and I'm a morning guy, so I'm just now getting to read your post.

First, I wasn't defending my product, I was defending John Schmidt. As you can see by the facts, he didn't play as bad as you made it sound.

Now, on to your next point. Actually, we don't say our products require less adjustment. What we say, and prove, is that the squirt is less. What most players get out of this is that they reach a point, usually pretty quickly, where they don't have to consciously compensate for cue ball squirt. The good news for you, is that most players can reach the same point with a normal squirt shaft, it just takes a little longer. Now, here's where it gets interesting. When you, subconsciously, compensate for cue ball squirt, there are tons of variables like how hard you hit it, how far from center you hit it, friction, etc. By reducing the squirt, the amount of compensation that your subconscious mind has to judge is less. When you consider the fact that we all make errors, even with our subconscious, a reduction in that compensation is an improvement on margin. This really only applies when we don't hit it perfect. So what a low squirt shaft does is improve slightly the margin of error when we miss.

Now to yoursecond point. Actually, in this instance, I'm saying that you have to consciously adjust your line of aim to shoot this shot with both shafts. This shot, a long, high side spin shot at a slower speed will curve the cue ball substantially. If it didn't, then it wouldn't have the effect you mentioned of a "fuller" hit. This shot is not that common. Certainly not as common as the other routine side spin shots that come up all the time. So, our low squirt equipment provides the benefit of margin of error on the largest majority of shots, while still needing a conscious adjustment on the smaller smaller majority of shots. I still call that an advantage.

Next, the cue ball paths, for the same shot to be executed, will be the same for both cue shafts. What will be different is the direction the cue shaft is traveling when it hits the cue ball. That's it! No magic to mysteriously change the physics of how a cue ball travels over the cloth with speed direction and spin. You think we've said things that we haven't said.

We've never advertised that our cue shafts "play" better than any other. We advertise what there advantages are. Remember, cue shafts don't "play", players "play". Now, our product has advantages that some players may want to take advantage of. And if they do, and they play better, then more power to them.

Now, for the last, and I take offense to your statement. We have never sold anything to anyone with a promise of increased ability. Again, we sell our products on there advantages.

Equipment advantages are not new to the world. We always hear that saying "It's the Indian and not the arrow" and that statement is true. However, each Indian will perform his best with the best equipment. It's true that Tiger Woods would destroy me on the golf course even if he was using the worst junior clubs you could find. It's also true that the other top level pro golfers would destroy Tiger if he used those same clubs against them. For him to compete at the level he wishes to, he needs the best equipment he can get.


Here's a tidbit of information for you. We've been going to all the large amateur national tournaments for quite some time. Most every year at the APA team championships for example, we have at least one person come to the booth and tell us how they have increased their skill level significantly since last year when they bought our products. They say our product helped them to get there. When you consider that that 99.9% of the people who play pool and buy pool cues and post on these forums are doing it for enjoyment and not for a living, isn't that what it's all about? These players come from all directions and all walks of life. From different skill levels and different expectations of themselves and the game. If you don't like our products that's fine. Don't buy them. But keep in mind that others may not feel the way you do, and that's OK!


Royce Bunnell
 
When more extreme swerve comes into play, there can be more angles to the shot, but for the object ball to go in the same direction, the spin on the cueball and the direction of the cueball will always be the same. The only change between a ld shaft and a standard shaft is the angle of the shaft in relation to the direction of cue ball travel to put the same spin and travel direction on the cue ball.

Jaden

Jaden,

No offense intended but that statement in blue is simply not true or needs some qualifiers. The OB can be made to go in the same direction from the CB approaching it from an endless number of combinations of paths & spins.

So are you saying that if the CB is hit an equal distance from center, along say the 7:30 line, that the only thing that need be done to get the exact same trajectory & same resultant spin is to align the LD shaft more to the right?

If so... then LD shafts are much worse for inside english.

How about having the cue aligned parallel but hitting more off center to get the same trajectory? But then the ball would have more spin on it.

I understand the different parameters & I understand what you are saying.

But...difference begets difference. The shaft deflects more to the side of the ball. That effects start line & spin.

I think you are over simplifying it by saying that the only difference is the shaft alignment.

As I have said I am a feel player. I don't analyse all this when playing.

No offense intended, but just for our information, what are you basing your statements on? Are you educated in this field or are you just repeating what you have you have heard or read?

Best Wishes,
Rick
 
preach on professor.. I always thought squirt was part of the line...so now you are saying eliminating squirt doesn't change the line....:scratchhead::scratchhead:


I don't think you know what you are talking about..

and BTW it's not a "low" deflection shaft it's a HIGH deflection shaft.. the shaft deflects MORE not less... it's descriptor is even a lie...


Softshot

How can eliminating cue ball squirt change the path the cue ball must take to make a particular shot?

Once the cue ball leaves the tip, it's on it's own. The player or cue can't do anything to change it.

The physics of how the ball travels over the cloth doesn't change either. For the cue ball to strike the object ball in the correct spot to make it, and have all the spin necessary to play whatever position you're playing for, the path is the path. No cue or shaft can change that.

However, the direction the cue is pointing when it is in contact with the ball is different with low squirt shafts than it is with regular squirt shafts. That's why the "aim" line is different.

Now about that "LD" terminology.
Technically, you are partially correct. By definition, the cue ball doesn't "deflect". Actually I don't like the term "low deflection" as I prefer low"squirt" for the very reason you brought it up. However, I didn't have the luxury of creating this "buzz word". It was already here when I came along, and I just have to live with it.
However, even by technical definition, a shaft does not have to be "High Deflection" in order to be low squirt. Low squirt comes from the effect of differences in tip end mass as opposed to the mass of the object ball. Shaft flex or stiffness plays a very small and almost undetectable role.
 
wow did you just make that up??

the line the CB takes to the OB when shooting with english is a parabolic curve the parameters include cue speed, tip offset from center(determined from the initial line of the cue which in an apples to apples comparison makes the plywood guys look bad so they don't bring it up because as Mr OB just showed on straighter shots it can be made to appear easier.. but once that curve becomes useful then you have to shoot at nowhere to achieve the line I get shooting pretty much normally), endmass of the cue, ball cleanliness, friction, cloth cleanliness, humidity, gravity, gravity from the moon. ball composition ....and on and on and on..

in point of fact every single shot everywhere in the world is a unique parabolic curve NO LINE is the same EVER

but the ad says drilling a hole in the end of the shaft turns all of it into a nice simple straight line... your next league win is only $300 away..

and you paid up and now refuse to admit you have been hustled..

it's just pride for you at this point isn't it??

Softshot

You bring up a difference in us, and I think now is a good time to address it.

As said in your words, I am "Mr OB". Certainly most of the people who might read this thread either know who I am, know me personally, or can at least find out who I am.

My statements are backed up by the risk of my reputation. My business and lively hood rely on it. The fact that those who read my statements can tie them back to me and my business gives those very statements credibility.

I ask you to do the same. Post your name and some information about you so those who read your statements can have some trust that you believe what you you say and are not just "in an argument for arguments sake". The readers of your posts will give you much more credibility. If you stand behind your posts, then this shouldn't be a problem.


I look forward to discussing this further.

Royce Bunnell (President and Co-owner of OB Cues)
www.obcues.com
972-578-9100
 
wow did you just make that up??

the line the CB takes to the OB when shooting with english is a parabolic curve the parameters include cue speed, tip offset from center(determined from the initial line of the cue which in an apples to apples comparison makes the plywood guys look bad so they don't bring it up because as Mr OB just showed on straighter shots it can be made to appear easier.. but once that curve becomes useful then you have to shoot at nowhere to achieve the line I get shooting pretty much normally), endmass of the cue, ball cleanliness, friction, cloth cleanliness, humidity, gravity, gravity from the moon. ball composition ....and on and on and on..

in point of fact every single shot everywhere in the world is a unique parabolic curve NO LINE is the same EVER

but the ad says drilling a hole in the end of the shaft turns all of it into a nice simple straight line... your next league win is only $300 away..

and you paid up and now refuse to admit you have been hustled..

it's just pride for you at this point isn't it??

Softshot

You bring up a difference in us, and I think now is a good time to address it.

As said in your words, I am "Mr OB". Certainly most of the people who might read this thread either know who I am, know me personally, or can at least find out who I am.

My statements are backed up by the risk of my reputation. My business and my lively hood rely on it. The fact that those who read my statements can tie them back to me and my business gives those very statements credibility.

I ask you to do the same. Post your name and some information about you so those who read your statements can have some trust that you believe what you you say and are not just "in an argument for arguments sake". The readers of your posts will give you much more credibility. If you stand behind your posts, then this shouldn't be a problem.


I look forward to discussing this further.

Royce Bunnell (President and Co-owner of OB Cues)
www.obcues.com
972-578-9100
 
All the pissiness about this makes no sense. This is so easy to prove. Takes 5 minutes.

Set the cue ball on the head spot and aim for the center of the foot rail, hit hard with maximum left or right.
Have a buddy mark with chalk the spot on the rail where it deflected to.
Do that once with LD, once with solid maple.

To be a little more scientific about it, use a training ball and notice where the chalkmark is on that ball
(to make sure you used the same amount of sidespin) and use the break speed app
(to make sure you hit at the same speed).

With the same speed and spin, the LD shaft will hit closer to the center. It's not difficult to see.

Softshot, your attempt to make a point with John Schmidt is dumb and you know it.
Plenty of pros win plenty of events with LD shafts.
You cherrypick one guy who didn't, and further cherrypick by saying "Straight pool doesn't count".

Heard of Darren Appleton? World 9 ball? US Open? Challenge of Champions? Mosconi cup?
All won using a "flimsy POS" predator. Sorry your predator broke dude but that doesn't mean
it's impossible to shoot well with one. You just got unlucky, or maybe you bang balls too hard
and smack it on the table too much.
 
Softshot

How can eliminating cue ball squirt change the path the cue ball must take to make a particular shot?

Once the cue ball leaves the tip, it's on it's own. The player or cue can't do anything to change it.

The physics of how the ball travels over the cloth doesn't change either. For the cue ball to strike the object ball in the correct spot to make it, and have all the spin necessary to play whatever position you're playing for, the path is the path. No cue or shaft can change that.

However, the direction the cue is pointing when it is in contact with the ball is different with low squirt shafts than it is with regular squirt shafts. That's why the "aim" line is different.

Now about that "LD" terminology.
Technically, you are partially correct. By definition, the cue ball doesn't "deflect". Actually I don't like the term "low deflection" as I prefer low"squirt" for the very reason you brought it up. However, I didn't have the luxury of creating this "buzz word". It was already here when I came along, and I just have to live with it.
However, even by technical definition, a shaft does not have to be "High Deflection" in order to be low squirt. Low squirt comes from the effect of differences in tip end mass as opposed to the mass of the object ball. Shaft flex or stiffness plays a very small and almost undetectable role.

Hi Royce,

If it involves an off center hit then there is variation from the line parallel to the cue stick. If the cue stick does not deflect but goes straight then the ball squirts to the max. Even a regular shafts deflect.

To say that it is only end mass is deceptive IMO. I'm not saying that you are being deceptive. I'm just saying that there is more than one parameter involved. Many times focus is put one one...or two parameters & the others are neglected.

If a shaft could be made virtually weightless but with no capability to bend & then was shoved through on line into an off center hit on the ball, the ball would squirt.

Conversely, if a very heavy but very flexible shaft could be made & then shoved through on line into an off center hit on the ball, the ball would squirt.

So what weight & flexibility parameters with in the confines of making a shaft can be combined to yield the least squirt?

The old Meucci's were too flexible for my liking.

I like the OB Classic and I like the McDermott i2 that I have. They are made with two(2) different designs & material make ups. I really like them both. I have a 'juiced' sanded down Predator 314 CAT that out performs them both for least squirt. I don't like it. It is too flexible & the spin swerve quickly overtakes the squirt. It's great in close quarters but with any distance it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

My point is what I was trying to make with Jaden. There is more than one parameter involved. It's more than just align the cue a bit differently to get the exact same result for the same offset & speed.

Now I'm not saying that the same contact point can not be hit by doing just that. But...the result will not be the exact same as the approach line & spin will not be exactly the same IMO.

The same tip offset yields a different combination of squirt, spin, swerve. To get the 'same' result would require a different tip off set for the different shaft.

IMO simply changing the cue line will not yield the exact same result. Similar? Yes. The exact same? I don't think so.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
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Matt,

I think we are mis-communicating in some way & are basically saying the same thing. It is this type of shot where the LD shaft sort of reverses the problem in the opposite direction.


Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
I think we both have a similar understanding of what's going on with squirt and deflection, but you stated that you can't get the same "fullness" of hit with an LD shaft of a shot where you "squerve" into the object ball as you would with a regular shaft, and that's not the case. An LD shaft will cause just as much swerve as the regular shaft, just not as much squirt to offset it, so you can cause the CB to take the same path with either shaft by adjusting your aim.
 
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but the ad says drilling a hole in the end of the shaft turns all of it into a nice simple straight line... your next league win is only $300 away..

and you paid up and now refuse to admit you have been hustled..

"The ad" does not say this. Not even close. The ad says that drilling a hole in the end *reduces cue ball squirt*. It does. This is a fact. The ad claims that the LD shaft is "more accurate". This is based on the fairly well accepted definition of accurate: "when the thing shots closer to the direction you point it, it is more accurate."

It isn't surprising you think the ads are a hustle if you don't even know what they are claiming. And where do you pay $300 for *any* shaft? That's crazy. Your shopping skills must equal your ability to understand advertisements.

You are not representing yourself very well here...

KMRUNOUT
 
if it doesn't change endmass then it has no effect on squirt.... that's just reality...

I can't help you with the rest of the lies you tell yourself...

Softshot, while I agree with you that endmass is the main factor, the *reason* I agree with you is because someone told me so. I didn't do any research about the physics of the situation. I *believe* the research of others like Bob Jewett and Dr, Dave. It would be my guess that you are in the same boat. One thing I'm certain that Bob, Dr. Dave, you, and I don't know is the things we *don't know*. Before we heard cue ball deflection was caused by endmass, I think we all thought it was something else. How stiff the shaft is, the taper, etc. But then we *heard* from someone that there was another explanation, and we believed it because it sounded reasonable.

The *reality* is, neither you nor I are really qualified to dismiss Jaden's claim. You don't *know* if he is right or wrong. You are happy to base a rude and argumentative stance on hearsay. But you really don't know. I don't know either. My first reaction is to doubt his claim. Doubting it is fine. Its part of the scientific process. If Jaden can prove his claim, then great! He obviously believes he can. One thing is for sure though: when someone makes claims about something they do not yet know, and rudely and vehemently sticks to those claims, they are often not received well by others, and look foolish to the more science minded within earshot. But whatever works for you!

KMRUNOUT
 
Hi Royce,

If it involves an off center hit then there is variation from the line parallel to the cue stick. If the cue stick does not deflect but goes straight then the ball squirts to the max. Even a regular shafts deflect.

To say that it is only end mass is deceptive IMO. I'm not saying that you are being deceptive. I'm just saying that there is more than one parameter involved. Many times focus is put one one...or two parameters & the others are neglected.

If a shaft could be made virtually weightless but with no capability to bend & then was shoved through on line into an off center hit on the ball, the ball would squirt.

Conversely, if a very heavy but very flexible shaft could be made & then shoved through on line into an off center hit on the ball, the ball would squirt.

So what weight & flexibility parameters with in the confines of making a shaft can be combined to yield the least squirt?

The old Meucci's were too flexible for my liking.

I like the OB Classic and I like the McDermott i2 that I have. They are made with two(2) different designs & material make ups. I really like them both. I have a 'juiced' sanded down Predator 314 CAT that out performs them both for least squirt. I don't like it. It is too flexible & the spin swerve quickly overtakes the squirt. It's great in close quarters but with any distance it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

My point is what I was trying to make with Jaden. There is more than one parameter involved. It's more than just align the cue a bit differently to get the exact same result for the same offset & speed.

Now I'm not saying that the same contact point can not be hit by doing just that. But...the result will not be the exact same as the approach line & spin will not be exactly the same IMO.

The same tip offset yields a different combination of squirt, spin, swerve. To get the 'same' result would require a different tip off set for the different shaft.

IMO simply changing the cue line will not yield the exact same result. Similar? Yes. The exact same? I don't think so.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
If you read Dave's technical proof (here) and Ron Shepard's paper (here), you'll see that the use the term "effective end mass"; which may include flexibility to some small degree, but is primarily driven by the actual mass of the last 6-10 inches of the cue, especially within the realistic range for a cue.

While you're going through Shepard's paper, take note of the section near the end addressing the desirability of squirt. He makes an interesting point that players with a bad stroke but good aim might benefit from a cue that has a pivot point near their normal bridge length, at least in terms of making shots. The pivot point on LD cues is too far back for it to be at a normal bridge length. This makes me wonder if some people that struggle going from a regular cue to an LD cues have been using unintentional backhand english as a crutch for a poor stroke.
 
Softshot

It looks like you're a night time guy, and I'm a morning guy, so I'm just now getting to read your post.

First, I wasn't defending my product, I was defending John Schmidt. As you can see by the facts, he didn't play as bad as you made it sound.

Now, on to your next point. Actually, we don't say our products require less adjustment. What we say, and prove, is that the squirt is less. What most players get out of this is that they reach a point, usually pretty quickly, where they don't have to consciously compensate for cue ball squirt. The good news for you, is that most players can reach the same point with a normal squirt shaft, it just takes a little longer. Now, here's where it gets interesting. When you, subconsciously, compensate for cue ball squirt, there are tons of variables like how hard you hit it, how far from center you hit it, friction, etc. By reducing the squirt, the amount of compensation that your subconscious mind has to judge is less. When you consider the fact that we all make errors, even with our subconscious, a reduction in that compensation is an improvement on margin. This really only applies when we don't hit it perfect. So what a low squirt shaft does is improve slightly the margin of error when we miss.

Now to yoursecond point. Actually, in this instance, I'm saying that you have to consciously adjust your line of aim to shoot this shot with both shafts. This shot, a long, high side spin shot at a slower speed will curve the cue ball substantially. If it didn't, then it wouldn't have the effect you mentioned of a "fuller" hit. This shot is not that common. Certainly not as common as the other routine side spin shots that come up all the time. So, our low squirt equipment provides the benefit of margin of error on the largest majority of shots, while still needing a conscious adjustment on the smaller smaller majority of shots. I still call that an advantage.

Next, the cue ball paths, for the same shot to be executed, will be the same for both cue shafts. What will be different is the direction the cue shaft is traveling when it hits the cue ball. That's it! No magic to mysteriously change the physics of how a cue ball travels over the cloth with speed direction and spin. You think we've said things that we haven't said.

We've never advertised that our cue shafts "play" better than any other. We advertise what there advantages are. Remember, cue shafts don't "play", players "play". Now, our product has advantages that some players may want to take advantage of. And if they do, and they play better, then more power to them.

Now, for the last, and I take offense to your statement. We have never sold anything to anyone with a promise of increased ability. Again, we sell our products on there advantages.

Equipment advantages are not new to the world. We always hear that saying "It's the Indian and not the arrow" and that statement is true. However, each Indian will perform his best with the best equipment. It's true that Tiger Woods would destroy me on the golf course even if he was using the worst junior clubs you could find. It's also true that the other top level pro golfers would destroy Tiger if he used those same clubs against them. For him to compete at the level he wishes to, he needs the best equipment he can get.


Here's a tidbit of information for you. We've been going to all the large amateur national tournaments for quite some time. Most every year at the APA team championships for example, we have at least one person come to the booth and tell us how they have increased their skill level significantly since last year when they bought our products. They say our product helped them to get there. When you consider that that 99.9% of the people who play pool and buy pool cues and post on these forums are doing it for enjoyment and not for a living, isn't that what it's all about? These players come from all directions and all walks of life. From different skill levels and different expectations of themselves and the game. If you don't like our products that's fine. Don't buy them. But keep in mind that others may not feel the way you do, and that's OK!


Royce Bunnell

Royce...I already had a lot of respect for you, but +1 for this post!!! Very well stated. You have very clearly and rationally stated your postion. I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, I am not so sure that "rationality" is going to reach Softshot. I am quite eager to hear how he could possibly disagree with what you have said here! The real question is: "why is my OB Classic so awesome after getting it back with the replaced ferrule (for free everyone fyi.)?" Haha...anyway very nice post!

KMRUNOUT
 
Softshot

How can eliminating cue ball squirt change the path the cue ball must take to make a particular shot?

Once the cue ball leaves the tip, it's on it's own. The player or cue can't do anything to change it.

The physics of how the ball travels over the cloth doesn't change either. For the cue ball to strike the object ball in the correct spot to make it, and have all the spin necessary to play whatever position you're playing for, the path is the path. No cue or shaft can change that.

However, the direction the cue is pointing when it is in contact with the ball is different with low squirt shafts than it is with regular squirt shafts. That's why the "aim" line is different.

Now about that "LD" terminology.
Technically, you are partially correct. By definition, the cue ball doesn't "deflect". Actually I don't like the term "low deflection" as I prefer low"squirt" for the very reason you brought it up. However, I didn't have the luxury of creating this "buzz word". It was already here when I came along, and I just have to live with it.
However, even by technical definition, a shaft does not have to be "High Deflection" in order to be low squirt. Low squirt comes from the effect of differences in tip end mass as opposed to the mass of the object ball. Shaft flex or stiffness plays a very small and almost undetectable role.

Royce,

To be fair, I believe the path *could* be different. Particularly on soft long distance shots. With a regular shaft and left english, the CB will start out squirting to the right, then swerve back to the left. That initial squirt would be the first portion of the cb's trajectory. With a LD shaft, we all agree that the swerve would be essentially unchanged. However, the initial trajectory of the CB would be different due to the reduced squirt. However, given the same aim line, in this case the CB is going to hit two different places. I am certain you could come up with a shot that is the right speed and distance so that you could hit the exact same place with the same speed of stroke and stroking aim line with either a LD shaft or standard. I *do* think the paths of the ball may be a bit different though due to the differences in initial squirt.

Does that make sense?

KMRUNOUT
 
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