First time as team captain critique my strategy

A

americanfighter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Last week our 8-ball team was kind of falling apart and my team captain was unable to stay. Nobody wanted to be captin so I am filling the spot for the first time. I know nothing of being a captain and was hoping you guys could offer some statagy help.

The reliable ones on my team consist of skill level wise: a 5,6,5(very strong),4,3,
The unreliable ones consist of:a 7,4

now I have never played as captain but here is my strategy:
My put up first I put up my 5
then I try an stage my guys as follows
my regular 5 against 4s and 3s
my 4s against 3s and 2s
my 3 against 6s and 7s and sometimes 5s (try to sacrifice weakest against strongest perhaps the 3 could get lucky and win 1 game and get a point)
My strong 5 against 5s and 4s sometimes 6s
My 6 against 5s and 4s.
My 7 (if he plays) against 5s, 6s, and sometimes weaker players for guaranteed 3 points.

thanks

AF
 
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I'm assuming APA, given the skill levels you listed.

Unfortunately, there is no easy, set answer. We'd have to know they players, and their tendencies, and if its a regular league you will also know your opponents fairly well too.

Many folks will try and operate the way you suggest, and there is nothing wrong with that, if you can arrange it. I usually try and match up close to equally during session, but that's just me. I want my lower level players to develop, and throwing them against 6's and 7's all the time isn't going to do that. Similarly, no one enjoys watching their 7 play a 2 or a 3. Doesn't mean we won't have those types of matchups, but I'm not gonna try and arrange them, for sure.

Knowing your team, their tendencies, and your opponents will guide you. Good luck!
 
justadub said:
I'm assuming APA, given the skill levels you listed.

Unfortunately, there is no easy, set answer. We'd have to know they players, and their tendencies, and if its a regular league you will also know your opponents fairly well too.

Many folks will try and operate the way you suggest, and there is nothing wrong with that, if you can arrange it. I usually try and match up close to equally during session, but that's just me. I want my lower level players to develop, and throwing them against 6's and 7's all the time isn't going to do that. Similarly, no one enjoys watching their 7 play a 2 or a 3. Doesn't mean we won't have those types of matchups, but I'm not gonna try and arrange them, for sure.

Knowing your team, their tendencies, and your opponents will guide you. Good luck!
Click to expand...

thanks yeah the way i had it set up
3=sacrifice (always plays the best player)
5,5,and6,= my primary scores (get them in games i know they can win)
7,4,4= my reserve (play as needed)

I am the 3 (fell after stroke) and i don't mind sacrificing myself winning my match is not as important as winning the league (that would be an ultimate win for me). I develop in practice however i don't want to make people aggravated because i play the best player if that if you think that will happen.

thanks for the advice

AF
 
Before I even get to worried about the numbers matching up I look at my individual players. Some prefer not to play first match, others don't want to be last. The I ask if there is anyone on the other team that they just don't play well against or prefer not to play. ( make sure to ask them that individually, no one likes to admit that they have a hard time playing someone else, especially in front of their piers) Making someone play a person that for whatever reason they don't like is just pointless. Seldom will you get a good game out of them.

I have been amazed at the ability of a person to play well above there normal level when they are in their comfort zone. I have never been amazed at how poorly a person plays when they are out of it. That alone has won me more matches where we were outclassed by talent alone and put us in the top rankings more times than I can remember.

Another piece of advice I can offer is this, take notes. I managed to maintain the same team for a number of years give or take a couple of players here and there. I constantly took notes (unbeknownst to them) of every match. Who they played, where they played, what the outcome was etc. After a while of doing that you will get a strong insight to how they will preform in any given circumstance.

It became a very valuable tool. You can't leave decisions up to the players. Peoples pride and fear of hurting feelings keeps them from answering questions honestly. Like, "they put Bob up next and he's a strong 6, which one of you feels like you can beat him? " Yeah, that seldom works well. Know your players strengths and weaknesses better than they do and you will do fine as a captain.

Best of luck to ya.
 
Cdryden said:
Before I even get to worried about the numbers matching up I look at my individual players. Some prefer not to play first match, others don't want to be last. The I ask if there is anyone on the other team that they just don't play well against or prefer not to play. ( make sure to ask them that individually, no one likes to admit that they have a hard time playing someone else, especially in front of their piers) Making someone play a person that for whatever reason they don't like is just pointless. Seldom will you get a good game out of them.

I have been amazed at the ability of a person to play well above there normal level when they are in their comfort zone. I have never been amazed at how poorly a person plays when they are out of it. That alone has won me more matches where we were outclassed by talent alone and put us in the top rankings more times than I can remember.

Another piece of advice I can offer is this, take notes. I managed to maintain the same team for a number of years give or take a couple of players here and there. I constantly took notes (unbeknownst to them) of every match. Who they played, where they played, what the outcome was etc. After a while of doing that you will get a strong insight to how they will preform in any given circumstance.

It became a very valuable tool. You can't leave decisions up to the players. Peoples pride and fear of hurting feelings keeps them from answering questions honestly. Like, "they put Bob up next and he's a strong 6, which one of you feels like you can beat him? " Yeah, that seldom works well. Know your players strengths and weaknesses better than they do and you will do fine as a captain.

Best of luck to ya.
Click to expand...

thanks for the advice
 
Heavy drinkers first
Guys who insist they need to warm up later
For the rest, if possible find the history and see who has already played who (and won).
It's a tiny edge but it can be useful to put your guys up against players they already beat before.
 
APA is, or IMHO, should primarily be about fun. During the regular season, I'd match people up as closely as possible with the opponents similar skill levels. Cdryden made an excellent point about comfort level which you would need to get by discussing it with your players. Other than that, I wouldn't attempt to over think it too much. By and large, all players in APA really aren't that good (most 7's are medium C's at best), they have jobs and families and all kinds of other real life crap that can throw any attempt at a consistent strategy out the window.

If and when you're later in the season and fighting for a playoff spot, or in the playoffs, I think that is a reasonable time to give consideration to strategy. Other than that, I believe the best strategy is to have an enjoyable time playing pool. The other best strategy is to get the team together once every week or two to play pool and let the better players offer the weaker players some pointers for getting better when there is not a competitive match. This seems to usually be some things like thinking about ball patterns, safety play and even showing them how to hit a stop shot or simple draw. Of course that part of it depends upon the make up of your team and the relative skill levels of the players.

I will say this about one of your comments. Assuming a 7 is going to shut out a lesser player on a 7 ft Valley Barbox is not an assumption one should normally make. Were it a 9' Diamond, it is a more valid assumption.
 
americanfighter said:
thanks yeah the way i had it set up
3=sacrifice (always plays the best player)
5,5,and6,= my primary scores (get them in games i know they can win)
7,4,4= my reserve (play as needed)

I am the 3 (fell after stroke) and i don't mind sacrificing myself winning my match is not as important as winning the league (that would be an ultimate win for me). I develop in practice however i don't want to make people aggravated because i play the best player if that if you think that will happen.

thanks for the advice

AF
Click to expand...

Only you can tell if someone will become aggravated or not.

As far as you developing during practice, that is true, but everyone needs to play in match conditions, too. That is why I like to get my lower level players matched against similar ability players when I can, because managing your game in an actual match is far different than in practice.

That doesn't mean that we can't learn when "playing up", on the contrary, that is very valuable too. But better served only a skill level or two different, especially for the lower level players. And you need them to develop some confidence in their game, which is difficult when they play 6's and 7's.

Everyone else has made valid points, too. Save the match up strategy for closer to playoffs...

Good luck!
 
In some divisions, you won't make it to playoffs without strategy.

Pool is about fun. Your team will have fun if it's winning. As a captain, you need to field the best possible set of 5 players for the situation at hand. That's not always about matching up for 'fun'.

As Cdryden pointed out, it's important to keep notes on your players. You'll learn who plays best against lower levels, who hates playing the opposite sex, and who can handle all comers. Notes help you remember in Week 14 just how effective Joe SL4 was against Suzy SL3 back in Week 2.

Notes also help you feel confident in your selections. Instead of polling your team - "Who's ready to play the best SL7 in our division?" - you'll have some information to go on. At the very least, it's better than a blind matchup based on the opinion of a cocky drunk.

Lastly, keep notes on your OPPONENTS in the division. Who's luck? Who can bank? Which strong SL6s can't kick out of a wet paper bag? Which Smirnoff is just one 'foul call' away from boiling over and going on tilt? One word of caution: Don't let your notes steer you too far from reality. Yes, that SL7 lost BADLY to your SL4 last time. But SL7s don't get there by losing to SL4s all the time. S/he might have had a bad night last out. One point of data is suspect, two data points can plot a line, but three helps set a trend.
 
I totally agree with taking notes. If you know your opponents you will know who to play against them. As far as putting up first. I start my 6. Not because he is the highest level I have. He is not. He has the best win percentage. If I have to put up first. I go for my best chance for a win to set the tone for the night.
 
GeoEnvi said:
In some divisions, you won't make it to playoffs without strategy.

Pool is about fun. Your team will have fun if it's winning. As a captain, you need to field the best possible set of 5 players for the situation at hand. That's not always about matching up for 'fun'.

As Cdryden pointed out, it's important to keep notes on your players. You'll learn who plays best against lower levels, who hates playing the opposite sex, and who can handle all comers. Notes help you remember in Week 14 just how effective Joe SL4 was against Suzy SL3 back in Week 2.

Notes also help you feel confident in your selections. Instead of polling your team - "Who's ready to play the best SL7 in our division?" - you'll have some information to go on. At the very least, it's better than a blind matchup based on the opinion of a cocky drunk.

Lastly, keep notes on your OPPONENTS in the division. Who's luck? Who can bank? Which strong SL6s can't kick out of a wet paper bag? Which Smirnoff is just one 'foul call' away from boiling over and going on tilt? One word of caution: Don't let your notes steer you too far from reality. Yes, that SL7 lost BADLY to your SL4 last time. But SL7s don't get there by losing to SL4s all the time. S/he might have had a bad night last out. One point of data is suspect, two data points can plot a line, but three helps set a trend.
Click to expand...

My devision is small and I everyone will get into the playoffs however everyone competes to be the regular season winner as the regular season champ gets an automatic bid to the city tournament and second place gets a bye in the playoffs and only have to win one game to be the playoffs winner. Also since my devision is small it will be easy to keep notes on people.

Thanks for the advice
 
If its a small division and you guys have played each other 100 time you should pretty much know how to play them and what to expect. If you're going in cold your strategy seems pretty solid. Someone from the APA admin. in St. Louis once told me that upon tracking this they discovered that the team that won the first match won team match about 80% of the time so I think you either want do what you can to get that first match or throw off. In my experience if you can get the first match you pretty much have the nuts and can control the matchups the rest of the night.
 
Celophanewrap said:
If its a small division and you guys have played each other 100 time you should pretty much know how to play them and what to expect. If you're going in cold your strategy seems pretty solid. Someone from the APA admin. in St. Louis once told me that upon tracking this they discovered that the team that won the first match won team match about 80% of the time so I think you either want do what you can to get that first match or throw off. In my experience if you can get the first match you pretty much have the nuts and can control the matchups the rest of the night.
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thanks I am going in kind of cold because most of the teams are knew and the teams that i knew well quit. but I know the players on my team pretty well.
 
A lot of good sugestions here. If you are playing under the APA new scoring(3 point) system, setting up a race where your player has a good chance to get the hill can keep you in the running when your team isn't playing up to par. A 2-4 race (sl 3 plays sl5) is ideal because your player only needs 1 to get the hill and a point. I have a couple sl 3 sl 4 player always wanting to play tougher handicaps where this is effective. They aren't an automatic sacrifice, and they get their chance to play tougher opponents. It's not hard to fade a 2-1 loss with a 3-0 or even a 2-0 win. The weaker players contribute to the bottom line and don't feel like they are sacrifice players.

:cool:
 
americanfighter said:
Last week our 8-ball team was kind of falling apart and my team captain was unable to stay. Nobody wanted to be captin so I am filling the spot for the first time. I know nothing of being a captain and was hoping you guys could offer some statagy help.

The reliable ones on my team consist of skill level wise: a 5,6,5(very strong),4,3,
The unreliable ones consist of:a 7,4

now I have never played as captain but here is my strategy:
My put up first I put up my 5
then I try an stage my guys as follows
my regular 5 against 4s and 3s
my 4s against 3s and 2s
my 3 against 6s and 7s and sometimes 5s (try to sacrifice weakest against strongest perhaps the 3 could get lucky and win 1 game and get a point)
My strong 5 against 5s and 4s sometimes 6s
My 6 against 5s and 4s.
My 7 (if he plays) against 5s, 6s, and sometimes weaker players for guaranteed 3 points.

thanks

AF
Click to expand...

Good luck to you CAP, ur plan sounds okay to me.

Atlease you dont have to worry about parents , i coach fall ball for u10 here in Baltimore, its a super tough leauge, we have 5 real good players and 5 not so good players.

Dealing with parents is just awful, why isnt my kid batting 1st, why cant my kid pitch, They just dont understand or they are half blind, i feel like saying do you even see you kid striking out every at bat, you dont see him dropping every ball that comes his way, but i know i cant say that and i will not hurt anyones feelings (especially kids).

So believe me you got 1 good thing working for ya, you dont have to DEAL WITH THE PARENTS!
 
americanfighter said:
Last week our 8-ball team was kind of falling apart and my team captain was unable to stay. Nobody wanted to be captin so I am filling the spot for the first time. I know nothing of being a captain and was hoping you guys could offer some statagy help.

The reliable ones on my team consist of skill level wise: a 5,6,5(very strong),4,3,
The unreliable ones consist of:a 7,4

now I have never played as captain but here is my strategy:
My put up first I put up my 5
then I try an stage my guys as follows
my regular 5 against 4s and 3s
my 4s against 3s and 2s
my 3 against 6s and 7s and sometimes 5s (try to sacrifice weakest against strongest perhaps the 3 could get lucky and win 1 game and get a point)
My strong 5 against 5s and 4s sometimes 6s
My 6 against 5s and 4s.
My 7 (if he plays) against 5s, 6s, and sometimes weaker players for guaranteed 3 points.

thanks

AF
Click to expand...

Not meant as a slam against anyone but I hate that part of the APA. I like the best player playing the best and the lowest playing the lowest. I don't want to play a 2 or a 3, and they shouldn't want to pay just be racking for me. It isn't fun or competitive for either. Pool is about who ever plays there best wins if the other person doesn't. And the om=nly way that works is if your are both around the same level.

But if you want to go to Vegas, my way isn't going to help you. If you want to learn to be a player I think (mho) it does...
 
Pete said:
Not meant as a slam against anyone but I hate that part of the APA. I like the best player playing the best and the lowest playing the lowest. I don't want to play a 2 or a 3, and they shouldn't want to pay just be racking for me. It isn't fun or competitive for either. Pool is about who ever plays there best wins if the other person doesn't. And the om=nly way that works is if your are both around the same level.

But if you want to go to Vegas, my way isn't going to help you. If you want to learn to be a player I think (mho) it does...
Click to expand...

I agree, the apa format along with most other league formats doesn't really cultivate a players skill. Anytime it is beneficial to loose, something has went wrong with the original plan. But, that's just how it is with league play unfortunately.

I think it would be nice to be in a non handicapped league. Everyone plays 5 games per match. 5 matches per night. You gain points per games won and 1 bonus point per match won. I know that people will say that isn't good for new players and that's probably true. But they always have the apa.:cool:
 
Pete said:
Not meant as a slam against anyone but I hate that part of the APA. I like the best player playing the best and the lowest playing the lowest. I don't want to play a 2 or a 3, and they shouldn't want to pay just be racking for me. It isn't fun or competitive for either.
Click to expand...

I've actually seen lower ranked players who are incredibly happy to beat stronger opponents,
even knowing it was handicapped. Because generally speaking, if a 2 beats a 7 or whatever,
it's because they played better that day while the 7 shot below his normal speed.
It's actually fun and competitive for the lower ranked player who is dying to win
and say "I played above my head and beat that guy."

But, to be fair, I never saw a higher ranked players act deliriously happy that they beat a 2.
 
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