How do you define a pro?

pwd72s

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
By this, I mean there are several players doing the NW circuit in amateur tournaments
who do nothing but play pool. Yet they don't play the speed of the really top players, those who hang with SVB,

So, are these guys pro? Are they amateur? Is there really a definite line, or is this just a gray area?
 
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pwd72s said:
By this, I mean there are several players doing the NW circuit in amateur tournaments
who do nothing but play pool. Yet they don't play the speed of the really top players, those who hang with SVB,

So, are these guys pro? Are they amateur? Is there really a definite line, or is this just a gray area?
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Lets ask the experts:
These are the guys that shoot par and are living off the Fat so to speak. More effort and risk on the top of the food chain. They are not bottom feeders, usually.

Go figure :grin-square:
 
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pwd72s said:
By this, I mean there are several players doing the NW circuit in amateur tournaments
who do nothing but play pool. Yet they don't play the speed of the really top players, those who hang with SVB,

So, are these guys pro? Are they amateur? Is there really a definite line, or is this just a gray area?
Click to expand...

There are probably a few different ways to call someone a Pro. When I say someone is a Pro Player in pool I am talking about if they play at over an Open/shortstop/A+ player speed. You can also call someone a Pro if they are constantly going form tournament to tournament and making some money at it even if they are not good enough to beat the top players. You can play in all the "Pro" events you want, if you lose 9-1, 9-2 all the time against the top players, that person is not a Pro. Melinda (OMGWTF blog) had written a few times where people would say she is a pro because she plays in top tournaments with top players and also does not mind playing for decent amounts of cash in gambling sets, yet she keeps laughing at them when they say she is a pro.

It's tough to really define in exactness what makes a Pro level player that, it can be tough to tell them apart day to day from just a good player that can still run 2-3-4 racks in 9 ball often. The Pro will just not only do that, but will do it when they are down 8-3 in a race to 9. Like Porn, you'll know it when you see it.
 
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I don't think the sport/game merits changing a definition. Pro=Professional IE, they do it for a vocation.
 
pwd72s said:
By this, I mean there are several players doing the NW circuit in amateur tournaments
who do nothing but play pool. Yet they don't play the speed of the really top players, those who hang with SVB,

So, are these guys pro? Are they amateur? Is there really a definite line, or is this just a gray area?
Click to expand...

I can only think of maybe 3 people in OR that could pull off something like that and, to my knowledge, only the one in your area has that kind of firepower without working. There are probably some strong players otherwise, but nobody that I could think of that would be near guaranteed money. Snapping off weekly $5 tournaments probably wouldn't cut it, so I can only guess it's the larger ones that it takes a carload of people to go to in order to make the costs reasonable. Does the PNW even have enough tournaments to make it possible while running into Dan, Stan or Glen or a couple others?
 
I define a pro as someone who makes the majority of his scratch playing pool. There was a time a B player could do that, scuffling from bar box to bar box hustling C players...not so much anymore, unless they're REALLY good at scoping action. We tend to think that a pro is in that elite club of players that would be on a pro tour, if there was one...think the top 100 or so U.S. players. That's probably a little unfair, there are probably 1000 or more that actually scratch out a meager living scuffling, I'd have to call them "pros" on that basis alone.

"Pro speed" to me is someone at the A+ and above level, capable of routine 3 and 4 packs or better, IN COMPETITION. There's a big difference, and we always confuse the two. There are thousands of guys who can play that speed, most can't do it every time, but much of the time they can and do. The top 15 or 20 repeat offenders on each of the regional tours fall into this category...half of those guys are in the U.S. Open right now.
 
West Point 1987 said:
I define a pro as someone who makes the majority of his scratch playing pool. There was a time a B player could do that, scuffling from bar box to bar box hustling C players...not so much anymore, unless they're REALLY good at scoping action. We tend to think that a pro is in that elite club of players that would be on a pro tour, if there was one...think the top 100 or so U.S. players. That's probably a little unfair, there are probably 1000 or more that actually scratch out a meager living scuffling, I'd have to call them "pros" on that basis alone.

"Pro speed" to me is someone at the A+ and above level, capable of routine 3 and 4 packs or better, IN COMPETITION. There's a big difference, and we always confuse the two. There are thousands of guys who can play that speed, most can't do it every time, but much of the time they can and do. The top 15 or 20 repeat offenders on each of the regional tours fall into this category...half of those guys are in the U.S. Open right now.
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I agree! If someone is able to play pool well enough to categorize it as a "JOB", then MAYBE they are a "pro".

I define a "pro" as somebody who does something as their PRIMARY source of income and they are ABLE to stay ahead of their bills (rent, car payments, etc.). Living with MOM and making enough spending money to go to the movies, have a pizza a week, and drink a few beers DOESN'T COUNT!

You can get "Joe Blow" to put a new roof on your house for CHEAP, but he may be JUST AS GOOD a roofer as "HOME DEPOT DUDE" who does it for TWICE as much, or MORE. Does that mean a "Joe Blow Pool Player" can't run as many racks as a "HOME DEPOT Pool Player"?

I've seen dudes that NOBODY has ever heard of run rack after rack after rack back in the day.
 
From the Oxford Dictionary - I have highlighted 2 key points :thumbup:

adjective
1relating to or belonging to a profession:
young professional people
worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent, skilful, or assured:
his professional expertise
their music is both memorable and professional
2engaged in a specified activity as one’s main paid occupation rather than as an amateur:
a professional boxer
informal, derogatory habitually making a feature of a particular activity or attribute:
a professional gloom-monger

noun
a person engaged or qualified in a profession:
professionals such as lawyers and surveyors
a person engaged in a specified activity, especially a sport, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime:
his first season as a professional
a person competent or skilled in a particular activity:
she was a real professional on stage
 
pwd72s said:
By this, I mean there are several players doing the NW circuit in amateur tournaments
who do nothing but play pool. Yet they don't play the speed of the really top players, those who hang with SVB,

So, are these guys pro? Are they amateur? Is there really a definite line, or is this just a gray area?
Click to expand...

:smile:


Definitely a gray area. Guess around 6 or 7 years ago Brandon Shuff was on the front cover of every pool magazine and still playing in the amateur TAP League.

He was still considered an amateur even though he was winning lots of tournaments and making money.:thumbup:

Right now there is a player riding that gray area with winning and placing in tournaments in the Northeast and still playing in the Amateur Open coming up.:D
 
I would say a pro is someone recognized as a pro. Meaning they are labeled as a PRO and play other PRO's. In pool amateurs are able to play against pros. This may be unlike other sports. There are others who hang in their poolhall playing whoever wants to play even if they are giving the spots. Most of these guys bet on anything. Coin flips or whatever. They are the best in their poolhall but they are gamblers. Some travel around looking for suckers. Players they know they can beat for easy money. They are hustlers. Pro's play top level players all the time. Look at golf. There are guys that are in the top 10 or 20 that never won an event. Does that mean they shouldn't be a pro. No. They are damn good. Just not good enough to beat the very top players. In sports where its one on one you cant hide your ability. If someone is in the field that better than everyone. They will usually win. Unlike team sports where you can hide behind other players. Hell they can even have a bad day and when that happens and an amateur beats on of them everyone thinks they can be beat. Hard to be at the top of you game every game and every day.
 
Players like Richy Rich and Benny Conway Jr., don't play like Shane but they are professional pool players. If I fished for a living, like guiding, but didn't compete in fishing tournaments, I would still be a professional fisherman.
 
Some, (like me), say a pro is defined by their ability. Others say that to be a pro, it has to be your main source of income. If you go by the latter definition, Irving Crane was an amateur. Yet, I don't think anyone doesn't think he wasn't a TOP pro player. As far as Dave Daya, it's not right that he is allowed to play in amateur only tournaments.
 
Neil said:
Some, (like me), say a pro is defined by their ability. Others say that to be a pro, it has to be your main source of income. If you go by the latter definition, Irving Crane was an amateur. Yet, I don't think anyone doesn't think he wasn't a TOP pro player. As far as Dave Daya, it's not right that he is allowed to play in amateur only tournaments.
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I consider Crane a "pro" because he had the ABILITY to do it for a living, even though he chose not to. He could have made a living playing pool, but I think he realized that a job was a bit more of a guaranteed income and provided him with a lifestyle he preferred.
 
Neil said:
Some, (like me), say a pro is defined by their ability. Others say that to be a pro, it has to be your main source of income. If you go by the latter definition, Irving Crane was an amateur. Yet, I don't think anyone doesn't think he wasn't a TOP pro player. As far as Dave Daya, it's not right that he is allowed to play in amateur only tournaments.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's more an ability thing, like pro golfers and so on. The rest, I'd say, would be more appropriately categorized as pro gamblers.
 
Banks said:
I agree, it's more an ability thing, like pro golfers and so on. The rest, I'd say, would be more appropriately categorized as pro gamblers.
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Pocketing, banking, position, break, kicks and jumps, know how to win and keep the winning, or loose and know when to quit, a pro does all of these with consistent accuracy i'd say high percentage, any lower level player might be good at pocketing, banking and position, but not as good with kicks, jumps and keeping the winning, last three comes with heavy experience only pros poses .
 
A better question, is who the hell would want to be a pro pool player. You can make more as a manager at a good Pizza location.

Now if pool is a supplemental income, and your still a pro, now your talkin.
 
Shame pros get no respect. I guess they have to make lots of money to get respect. Now I am referring to players who are sanctioned as pros. Like here on AZ. I dont know how many pros there are or even their average income. I guess the fact that you are lets just say within the top 1000 best at something in the entire world means nothing. Hopefully some day their struggle and hard work will pay off. If there was a way to promote and make pool more exciting to viewers, I think pool may be more mainstream. It is what it is. Not all pros are as some put it poor. Some have sponsors and maybe have other ways to provide income. House pro or teaching. Kinda hard to hold down another job that will let you take off to travel and plays in tournaments that are also during the week. Maybe if pros were broken down at a state level they could get more support. Everyone love to have someone to root for and usually that comes from a state level (football and baseball). How many people even know they have pros in their state? Think pros could do a better job of crating fans. They could get out to poolhalls and do exhibitions. Something/ anything. Cant just play in tournaments and hope to show up on espn some day so people know who you are. Get out there and support the sport.
 
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