NO Match for Harriman/Schmidt

Well said, Johnny. No one has a clue who or what Str8 Shots is, but they're making us sick already. Kim took a thrashing for sure.

Tomorrow we get to see if she mans-up and does the right thing and resets her posture or if she puts on her T. Boone Pickens mask and yeehaws her way through another thread acting like Big Papa Pump.

Sent from my Galaxy S4
 
It's really difficult for me to imagine a company promoting pool and players to stifle an exhibition match between 2 great players regardless of how the players feel about each other. In all honesty, their mutual dislike of each other and the will to win brought the best game both players had to the table.

Despite John's opinions about his cue, he played well. In fact, IIRC he posted a pretty high straight pool run while practicing with his new cue/shaft from OB Cues.So, it's hard to believe he couldn't play dead with it. However, what is more surprising to me, and no offense to John (he must be a great marketing person himself), is why a company would sponsor any player who admittedly only plays a couple events a year now. Little to no return on your investment with the limited exposure to your brand I would think. Of course, I don't know John's intentions regarding tourney play for the coming year. Heck, he may play an event every weekend somewhere for all I know.

I wonder though what kind of sponsorship money str8shots pays it player reps. John stands to make $4500 if he wins all 3 sets on TAR for 3 days work.Does str8shots pay players a comparable sum? Do they give him a cue? If so, will it be the best cue ever?Again by his own admission his OB cue was awful and he played the best ever with his Bobby Hunter cue.

Here is John's statement on the Pool and Cue announcement page regarding his OB Cue...

“I’m very excited to be working with the people at OB Cues—they have the same dedication and drive as I do, plus the OB-1 Cue Shaft is by far the best product I have ever played with.”

However, he has trashed OB in his posts here now that his contract has ended with them.

Either way, I wish John and his new sponsor luck but I will not support str8shots if they happen to make this match go off!! For the future, being paid to use sponsored equipment is fine but not a good decision to speak negatively of the same equipment once the contract is over.

Earl spoke negatively of Cuetec after his contract was over too. Shane picked it up and has played VERY WELL with his Cuetec. Don't think it hurt his game!! I am also glad Cuetec hasn't prohibited Shane form playing TAR matches. I can only believe sponsoring him and letting him make his own decisions has increased their sales and exposure to their brand. They let Shane be who he is simple as that. But when he and his cue sponsor finally split ways I want to think he will take the high road and refrain from degrading the equipment he was paid to use.
 
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Anyone want to bet that str8shots does promote this match once they make it clear to Danny that they are tbe only outfit who can put this together no matter how mucb more money can be made elsewhere.

The game is changing and soon this sport will be a bigger mess than boxing.

Read them contracts is all I can say. Then have gour agent read it as well.
 
You all are blowing this WAY out of proportion, just like everything else . Kim and her husband do nothing but promote pool. They have done so much for the Billiard Education foundation. I am sure someone will respond as its not my place but trust me, they aren't out to destroy pool in any way.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
Kim:

1) No one on planet earth has a clue who you are or what Str8 Shots is. Therefore, this PPV can't possibly tarnish your direction or rep.

2) The sole purpose of this match is NOT to create additional animosity. It's a tie breaker of one of the best rivalries ever in our sport. Every single elite rivalry in any sport involved animosity. Saying you don't want Schmidt to walk into the heat of battle while being associated with your company is like having Nike tell the public they don't want Tiger to match-up with Adam Scott because words might be said.

3) Earth to Kim: The revenue to be collected off this PPV will NOT be substantial. In fact, TAR is taking a huge risk just to cover their nut. There's NO such thing as substantial revenue in PPV in the pool sector. In fact, it's almost never worth the hassle and it's more of a labor of love than a revenue stream. Ask me how I know this.

4) You're coming across as someone who "Thinks" there's a lot of money to be made by TAR with a player that you're sponsoring, so you put the kabash on it hoping to produce it yourself. This is a huge mistake because a) there's no money to be made b) you're committing corporate brand suicide by looking jealous of TAR over money that isn't being made c) The ONLY audience for this match is the AZB population and no one will buy it if you produce it because it's TAR'S to produce. They've earned that right by producing the first two. Don't be the noob who shows up out of nowhere and talks like they're Jack Welch when they run the smallest unknown outfit in billiards. Be the noob who supports the sport by not getting in the way of the players. It's NOT about Str8 Shots
... it's about the players. You're along for the ride, not the other way around.

5) You have illusions of grandeur thinking this match is bad for your company. You NEED this match to take place. Otherwise, your brand will be remembered as the company that squashed a great match over BS nonsense.


If this were football, I'd be telling you the NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG when you make these shit calls.

Sorry for the brutal straight talk, but someone needs to talk sense to you since your crew clearly isn't. I'm hoping you sleep this one off and wake up tomorrow and take a mulligan with whiff of a corporate decision.

Good luck with Str8 Shots....you'll need it with these calls.



Sent from my Galaxy S4
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Cannot rep you again!!
 
I don't know what Str8 Shots, sells or promotes, but this decision is a negative IMO from most pool players(AZB'ers) perspective.

I mean, what do you foresee happening here, Danny taking a little bit of a lead and John can't contain himself and starts spouting off about feeding a goat and being shit off a cliff? And then everyone saying they want nothing to do with Str8 Shots?

Seriously, not a very well thought out decision, IMO.
 
Somehow I got associated with str8 shots through a Junior tournament my son played in..

If you want to voice your displeasure, here is an email address that I have already received a response from..

info@str8-shots.com

Russ
 
I'm fairly new to pool, so take this with a grain of salt. But here's my take on it all...

"Old guard" pool fans like action, challenge matches, etc. and could care less about major tournaments (other than it's a meeting place for action to occur after hours). These people either don't care about pool's image or feel there is nothing wrong with pool's image. I know that's a generalization, bear with me.

Promoters want to grow the sport and want new customers to come in. The general public would be the source of new customers, but the general public (in the USA) has a negative image of pool. To grow the sport, promoters feel there is a need to clean up this image. These people think in terms of major tournaments which are very visible to the public (or at least that's the goal).

Problem is, in this case, that Str8 Shots (and TAR) probably does not have the horse power to effect a change on pool's image in the first place. We are not talking about a 100 million dollar company here who is producing major tournaments or broadcasts or pool match DVD's. In the greater scheme of things, very few people will actually see this match.

However, I agree with the principles that Str8 Shots promotes. And I do not fault them for wanting to maintain those principles, even though it is not necessarily the easiest path.

If I were Matchroom Sports, and I wanted to hold challenge matches, I would love to hold the Harriman/Schmidt decider. I would build up the RIVALRY aspect of it, but I would downplay the HOSTILITY aspect of it. I would broadcast it live, I would sell tickets, BUT...

I would make it very clear to both players, and put it in the contract, that ANY unsportsmanlike behavior would be severely penalized financially. For that to happen, the payout has to be substantial in the first place, and let's face it, this match is small potatoes.

This match would be really IMPORTANT to hard core pool fans, but it is INSIGNIFICANT in terms of the overall pool industry.

Fatz
 
Pre-Flag Master said:
I'm fairly new to pool, so take this with a grain of salt. But here's my take on it all...

"Old guard" pool fans like action, challenge matches, etc. and could care less about major tournaments (other than it's a meeting place for action to occur after hours). These people either don't care about pool's image or feel there is nothing wrong with pool's image. I know that's a generalization, bear with me.

Promoters want to grow the sport and want new customers to come in. The general public would be the source of new customers, but the general public (in the USA) has a negative image of pool. To grow the sport, promoters feel there is a need to clean up this image. These people think in terms of major tournaments which are very visible to the public (or at least that's the goal).

Problem is, in this case, that Str8 Shots (and TAR) probably does not have the horse power to effect a change on pool's image in the first place. We are not talking about a 100 million dollar company here who is producing major tournaments or broadcasts or pool match DVD's. In the greater scheme of things, very few people will actually see this match.

However, I agree with the principles that Str8 Shots promotes. And I do not fault them for wanting to maintain those principles, even though it is not necessarily the easiest path.

If I were Matchroom Sports, and I wanted to hold challenge matches, I would love to hold the Harriman/Schmidt decider. I would build up the RIVALRY aspect of it, but I would downplay the HOSTILITY aspect of it. I would broadcast it live, I would sell tickets, BUT...

I would make it very clear to both players, and put it in the contract, that ANY unsportsmanlike behavior would be severely penalized financially. For that to happen, the payout has to be substantial in the first place, and let's face it, this match is small potatoes.

This match would be really IMPORTANT to hard core pool fans, but it is INSIGNIFICANT in terms of the overall pool industry.

Fatz
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An assumption here is that in order to popularize something, you have to 'clean it up.' I just don't think that's the case in today's world.
 
Johnnyt said:
Most companies that are pool related start ups need to keep a good relationship with AZB members. This won't be the first company that has been sent away in flames.
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Mainly because AZB members have a tendency to behave like hysterical schoolgirls, as parts of this thread demonstrate.
 
lorider said:
man i just dont get some of you guys. all i ever hear on here any more is " whats wrong with pool ".

ya'll pissed because you are not going to see the train wreck you were hoping for between these 2 players. much like people want to see earl " hoping he goes off " on one of his tirades.

now ya'll on here bashing a woman who is trying to clean up the image of pool.

in case you dont know it john is contracted along with karen corr and others under str8shots.

it is her biz to run it any way she sees fit. she is heavily involved in jr leagues and donates to charities and our military perssonel as well. her players are under contract to do shows for jr leagues " and i am not trying to speak for her " it seems that she does not think this match between john and danny is not good for the image she wants her contracted players to portray.

as for them trying to cut tar outa the picture mark cantrill " who works for str8shots" was trying to put this match together before he realized the bad blood between john and danny.

i may be wrong but according to the dates posted on here tar offered to put on the match after mark was already working on it. so tell me who is trying to cut out who. remember tar said after the last matchup between them he would never do another but i guess $ signs changed his mind.

now talk about taking care of pro pool players, she said she would compensate john for the lost revenue of this match. john said part of it would go to charity. class act by both of them.

speaking of charity , world pro stuck his nose in it with john. john said he would play worldpro for a 1,000.00 and if he won it would all go to charity, again another class act by john. as for the remark about john being a puppet for str8shots i like the influence that organization is having on him.

as for the remark about danny being compensated for the lost revenue also. i have yat ro see his response that he would play. how can you expect some one to be compensated for a match that they have never agreed to ?
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I'm not sure what is going on with this forum lately. It seems as if people are attacking others like a pack of wild animals, ripping a piece of their flesh with each post.

I try to keep up with what's happening in the industry, and so I do read the Main Page of AzBilliards for the pool news, as well as other pool-related websites.

Str8shots' mission or vision, if I may call it that, in pool is to not only help youth with scholarship monies, but they seem to have targeted pool players of all caliber: young, amateur, aspiring pros, and pros. They are going in a direction that is not related to action or gambling or "Who's the best?"

Here's a group who has put their money where their mouth is by hiring Mark Cantrell to help them disseminate their message. They continue to sponsor pros, most recently Jayson Shaw -- BEFORE his fine third-place finish at the recent Open.

As a sponsor, they do want to project an image that is in line with their mission. Smack talk and action, as much as I like it, is not a part of their agenda. I am positive that they desire players on their team that they pay with money, whether youth, amateur, aspiring pro, or pro, to follow the plan of this company. Action, one-on-one matches against two adversaries, isn't in line with this image. Mark, unfortunately, was not aware of the bad blood between John and Danny.

In recent times, more and more pool entities are washing their hands in American professional pool. Mark Griffin has announced he's not going to be hosting the pros in future events, except *maybe* a 16-player invitational. Joss/Turning Stone had to drop one of their events because of renovations at the casino. Greg Sullivan said there will never again be another Tunica. The Ultimate 10-Ball Challenge, not sure if we will ever see this one again due to the attendence.

Not so long ago, the Hilton Hotel representatives came to the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship and said they wanted to create tour for American professional players. I was so excited, until I saw Charlie Williams, et al., of the UPA surround this man with a plan to suit the UPA. At the time, the UPA was quite controversial with the pool community, but they didn't give a damn. It was UPA's way or the highway. After two events with an EXTREMELY low turnout, one of which was scheduled in Pittsburgh at the EXACT SAME TIME as Joss/Turning Stone (won by Shawn Putnum in Pittsburgh), Hilton Hotels had seen enough and said, "Don't call us; we'll call you if we need you." That was the end of that. Can you imagine how cool pool would be today if Hilton had stayed on with a real tour?

Please let's not attack this Stra8Shots organization. They are trying to do some good in the pool world. If helping our youth with scholarship monies and aspiring pros compete in events and pros representing their organization is not your cup of tea, that's fine, but don't run these people out of pool, like the UPA did with Hilton Hotels.

I'm not sure what's going on with this forum in recent days. We could be in a time of remarkable change in this Anthropocene era of pool. Can we get to a point where we have a sustainable pool world on a longer term basis?
 
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in this Anthropocene era of pool.
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I'm not Googling that.

Rider and Big Word Jam. Good posts and I agree with most of it. Me a fence sitter as I read both sides and feel that everyone is right.

Nothing wrong with what Str8shots is trying to do with the young players. Good for them. Clean the image a bit. The road to temptation has enuff twists and turns in it. I have hit the ditch a few times myself.

One thing, if John's contract prohibits him from doing this particular match because of the way John feels about Danny, Goats and Cliffs, would they also
keep him from playing other money making matches because gambling may be involved. I guess it depends on how tight a leash they plan on keeping their contracts on. It does feel like they yanked him in on this one before considering options.

In reality, as others have mentioned, if John were allowed to play, it wouldn't hurt anyone and I doubt that either player would show any amount of animosity toward each other. I believe that considering the controversy surrounding them, they wouldn't go out of their way to provoke it and would behave like gentlemen.

Any tension would be taken out on the table and we would see some dynamite playing.

Kind of too bad that the gun got jumped here because now, whether true or not, it appears that the match was cancelled because they wanted to be the ones handing the PPV. This general feeling may hurt them with their endeavors in the future. Maybe they could have considered a little more and thrown caution to the wind in this one instance.
 
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No smack talking, no matching up and playing for some serious CHEESE?

Sounds kind of dull. Don't tell me the goal is to have a tournament where everyone gets a trophy.
 
punter said:
No smack talking, no matching up and playing for some serious CHEESE?

Sounds kind of dull. Don't tell me the goal is to have a tournament where everyone gets a trophy.
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LOL, Punter. :grin-square:

Actually, the tension in the pool world today is between the pool purists versus the action enthusiasts. I mean, there's a whole sub-forum on action, here at AzBilliards, which speaks for itself, I guess. :wink:

The pool purists, however, would prefer no smack talking and no gambling. There's quite a few of them who post on the Main Forum every day. They believe that gambling is the culprit for keeping pool in the doldrums. In fact, there is a Euro tour that doesn't pay any money to the winners, but they do give out titles and trophies. :tongue:

As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. :)
 
JAM said:
LOL, Punter. :grin-square:

Actually, the tension in the pool world today is between the pool purists versus the action enthusiasts. I mean, there's a whole sub-forum on action, here at AzBilliards, which speaks for itself, I guess. :wink:

The pool purists, however, would prefer no smack talking and no gambling. There's quite a few of them who post on the Main Forum every day. They believe that gambling is the culprit for keeping pool in the doldrums. In fact, there is a Euro tour that doesn't pay any money to the winners, but they do give out titles and trophies. :tongue:

As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. :)
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I hear ya JAM. And I'm definitely for freedom of choice.

But Smack Talking is as American as apple pie. And, a lot of times, it's good promotion, and good business;
Minnesota Fats ....Muhammed Ali ....Joe Namath ...Larry Bird.....etc. All very sucessful and famous Smack Talkers.
 
punter said:
I hear ya JAM. And I'm definitely for freedom of choice.

But Smack Talking is as American as apple pie. And, a lot of times, it's good promotion, and good business;
Minnesota Fats ....Muhammed Ali ....Joe Namath ...Larry Bird.....etc. All very sucessful and famous Smack Talkers.
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I am with you on this one. We stand on the same side of the fence. :grin-square:
 
I am going to try and give you the sponsor's perspective here. As someone who has been involved with sponsoring players for 20 years I can see Str8Shot's position somewhat.

Especially if their focus has been on the Junior programs prior to this venture.

I used to speak with Janet Shimel once in a while and when Earl was dropped by Cuetec he made some really nasty remarks about the brand, the cue and the people who supported him for so long. I asked Janet how she felt about those comments and she said they hurt her deeply because for the duration of the whole sponsorship she had dealt with people threatening to and actually boycotting her brand because of Earl's antics. She fielded the calls, she was presented with the emails, she read the forum comments.

And more importantly she spent tons of time on the phone with Earl trying to help him get humself under control and had considered him a friend. She saw the good side of Earl and that was a major reason why they continued with him even though the value to the brand was iffy.

So I can understand the reluctance to allow a player to be put into a situation that is geared towards intense conflict where so many words have been exchanged that it's not a professional rivalry anymore but almost outright hatred.

For a young company trying to project a positive image the last thing they want is one of their star players to be remembered most for having it out on camera with his hated rival. While that might make for great "tv" it's not what they want associated with their brand. I can respect that as a sponsor.

But here is what I would do because I respect the player as a human who should have the freedom to play who he wants to. I would have talked with John and made sure to extract a promise that his own demeanor would remain professional and thus the result would most likely be a a great match with both players staying cool OR if Danny were to get out of line John would be the shining example to the world of how a pro stays cool under fire.

I would definitely allow the match to happen.
 
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