NO Match for Harriman/Schmidt

spanky79 said:
Thanks Mark, this is why is asked if there was something I was missing. I would of thought you would of called Justin and apparently you did.

Keep rollin.
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I got a text that said that basically said "Hey man I want to run something by you and maybe get some info,"

At the time I was busy working on a new website and a match bigger than anything we have ever done before. So I didnt drop what I was doing to call and find out what plan Mark had up his sleeve this time. Remember the pro player chili contest?

Besides Mark doesnt have to call me about anything. Just like if he puts out a match possibility in public I am free to make an offer on it as well. Its called competition and it is good for the players and the fans. There is a reason I do not discuss what I am doing until its done though.

This is all a giant cluster. I will own part of the blame for getting pissed and posting after I read the OP. I talked to Kimberly from Str8 shots yesterday. She was very nice and professional. She explained that what came across in the OP was not what she meant to say and I believe her. My impression is that she and her husband are not very familiar with AZ or pro pool and its history. They are trying to do their own thing with a focus on kids it looks like and had no clue what they stumbled into here. I hold no ill will toward anyone and wish Str8 shots and Mark well.

I am going to call Corey now and see if I can get him to call Shane some names on facebook so I can drum up half this much interest in Fridays match that actually will be taking place.
 
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kvinbrwr said:
It's all "regulated" in order to protect the consumer. Much like str8 is regulating this match to protect the kids.

Charitable Orgs live live in that "expenses and admin costs" zone, and of course, they quite often use the public's perception that they are the charity they are representing to their advantage.

Kevin
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Like the billiards education fund doesn't have anything to do with str8 shots except for them being one of the charities they chose?

Man I'd love to see how much money they donate compared to how much they keep.
 
I don't have the mental acuity I once did so please bare with me. Did John's sponsor ever claim to be a charity or 501(c)(3) entity? Again I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I thought I read they were a business that distributed a portion of their earnings to charitable organizations, as many companies do. I too am disappointed this epic event is not taking place, at least for now. Perhaps I missed, or forgot where they claimed tax exempt status.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Like the billiards education fund doesn't have anything to do with str8 shots except for them being one of the charities they chose?

Man I'd love to see how much money they donate compared to how much they keep.
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You know, I guess its interesting as it does (sorta) relate to pool. If you want to get outraged, take a look at The Kids Wish Network.

Kevin
 
Neil said:
What you actually did was make it clear that you have formed an opinion based on a few things, not all the facts. And, from that uniformed opinion, you decided to publicly bash a company you know very little about.

This company that you and others are so quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon with, has done something already that I have have never heard of happening before. Both players were paid even though they did not get to play! That's unheard of in the pool community. Don't talk much if at all about the great things they are doing, instead just all gang together like a bunch of two year olds going down the candy aisle in the grocery store throwing tantrums because they didn't get what they wanted this time.

Sadly amazing at how so many are so quick to run off at the mouth with so few actual facts about anything. Just immediately start throwing tantrums because they didn't get their way. I thought a lot of those posting in this thread were above that, guess I was proven wrong in spades on that one. :frown:
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And you sir, have made in abundantly clear that you are defending a company I know very little about. However, that was one of my points for not agreeing with what they did. It's not my fault they have a shitty PR department, and they haven't exactly been filling in the blanks here. I didn't go off bashing this that and the other for no reason. I stated both clearly and fairly, why I'm not buying in, and that I'm not closing the door yet.

You are on here shouting from the rafters to take it easy, yet like str8-shots, not giving much reason to let off. I'm all for improvement of pool. I'm all for a company trying to do better than the past. I'm not going to blindly support a company that has given NO reason to do so, and further more, has stepped on the toes of a company that I DO support, TAR. (That's my opinion, I'm not sure how the TAR boys feel.)

So before you come at me blasting away, maybe you should take note of this. I said I'm not supporting str8-shots for the following reasons. I listed A, B, C, etc. why. Str8-shots however, came out into a public forum, pulled rank on one of it's players, and provided VERY vague reasoning for doing so. Yet, some how I'm in the wrong.

Like I said in my previous posts, I'm not out to blindly bash the new guy, but this is a cluster-**** from the get go, and they only have themselves to blame. I will support them when I see something more worth supporting. (BTW, I've donated to BEF, and I like what they are trying to do there. I just don't like what they've done here. I wasn't aware of the affiliation, if any, with BEF.)

At the end of this post, and checking out their page for a 3rd time, I'm still not even sure what the hell str8-shots is. Can some one fill in my blank?

Thanks,
 
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This should have been the post that Kim made explaining this whole thing, nicely explained Mark. I replied here not just to say that but I hope that a bump will enable some to read that that missed it.

SpiderWeb also made some great points about the pool rooms in general (you learn some nasty things there about drugs, cutting up the money, dumping your backer, etc..), but there is also an * to that, not ALL pool rooms are like that. And it's possible to be IN the pool crowd while not being absorbed by the dark side of things. Take a look at some of my posts about the room that hosts my son's Junior League (I made enough of them that most on here must have seen them already). You'd have no hesitation with someone taking your 16 yr old daughter there for a date.

"Just Say No" is basically the thing, like having the will power and personal respect of yourself to not start smoking when you hang around with people that smoke. I take my son to Snookers in RI a lot, where as you guys know some decent action happens, he knows what to take away from all the happenings and what to leave. And a great part of that is that the players there respect him being there with me that they try to maintain a more civil and "clean" manner when he is around. No-one is going to me or him and saying "hey, you shoot good for a 13 yr old, let me setup this easy game with a sucker that we can rob, he'll never expect a kid to bet him." I know that not all rooms are like that, nor all players, but it is possible to hang around all types of players and different pool rooms without being let to acting the same way as the "bad" ones.


bfdlad said:
First let me say that THIS POST IS NOT ON THE BEHALF OFSTR8-SHOTS. This is my personal take on this whole situation.

Well, its been hard to sit back and watch this thing go down. My opinion is that there has been a REALLY BIG misunderstanding on a few levels.
I personally have always got along with Justin/TAR/CSI and we have in the past worked together to schedule events so as not to compete or make players unavailable when the other wanted to set something up. Not that I have ever been a competitor of TAR but having 2 events at the same time does nobody any good. I'm sure that you see what I am talking about.
I started a thread asking about Danny with the intention of possibly putting together a PPV match. My opinion was that TAR/Justin had NO interest in working on this again after what had gone down the last time they tried an statements that were made.
Well one thing led to another and before I knew it I had spoke to both players and I tried to make contact with Justin to just see what his thoughts were on it. I am aware that Justin has a life outside of TAR and I'm sure he was busy and I got no response. From that point I left it alone thinking at some point Justin would call me if he felt like he should or needed to an it left my mind completely.

To answer the question Did anyone know that there were any ill feelings between the two players (Danny and John) The simple answer is of course I knew about the ill will but after talking to both Danny and John I guess I didn't really know the extent of the ill will and the impact it could have and what could potentially go down.
I spoke with str8-shots honchos and told them about the match I was working on and that it wasn't going to be friendly and we would need to do all we could to control the situation. Str8-shots were not aware of rivalry being so heated and had concerns about the Jr Players that are involved with str8-shots also wanting to see a team mate play and then seeing a meltdown. Please remember that they work to instill sportsmanship and integrity into these young players and if anything happened it just would go against what the are trying to get across.
A quick response to Kvnbrw I think. I know what you are trying to do with your statements that I don't trust John.to behave. However let me just put it to you like this because you obviously can't see anything but one side. There would be two players in the room and even if John Behaves as agreed and we trust that to happen and he acts like the pope that does not stop Danny doing something (Not saying he would this is just a scenario) So if Danny punches John (Who is behaving) in the mouth John just like many would probably react. Now we have a fight on our hands no matter who is to blame. Meanwhile the kids that Str8-shot are sponsoring have tuned in to watch a team mate play and this is what they see. After all the advice and encouragement to be a sportsman and honor with integrity the Pro is in a fight. I'm sure that you can see how that would look.

Moving right along, the next thing is that I saw was the open invite to John and Danny from TAR. I was a little confused since I had began working on a match that I didn't think TAR wanted and then they go over the top of me without a call back to talk about it. I know that TAR started the rivalry and that was the reason I tried to call in them in first place out of respect. Mean while things went along faster than planned and wires got crossed and here we are.

I have to say that I am a little disappointed in some of the people on here who were willing to make such nasty, hurtful and just plain mean and rude remarks about Kimberly and Str8-shots. I am not saying this because I work for them, I am saying this because they are good people and do more for pool in general than at least 99% of the people who have been knocking them. Seriously do for pool what the do and the Jr programs, the troops overseas and the BEF and then maybe you have right to bash them if you don't like their stance on anything. Until them I think that those who are not doing what they are should show a little greatfulness and respect.

I know this whole thing has not gone the way of popular opinion on here at least and again, mainly down to miscommunications, crossed wires and misunderstandings. NOBODY was trying to take anything away from TAR and I hope after all this that everyone can still be friends around here and I guess lets see what happens next. These are my personal thoughts and nobody elses. Not sure if this has answered any questions but at least you have my input. I have been around here a few years now and I have had a few problems here and here but not too many and so I hope that you guys know that I do all I can for the benefit of the pool world and fans in general. Oh before anyone says it, yeah I make money on it too, not much but it keeps me alive.

Thanks for listening,
Mark Cantrill
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hang-the-9 said:
This should have been the post that Kim made explaining this whole thing, nicely explained Mark. I replied here not just to say that but I hope that a bump will enable some to read that that missed it.

SpiderWeb also made some great points about the pool rooms in general (you learn some nasty things there about drugs, cutting up the money, dumping your backer, etc..), but there is also an * to that, not ALL pool rooms are like that. And it's possible to be IN the pool crowd while not being absorbed by the dark side of things. Take a look at some of my posts about the room that hosts my son's Junior League (I made enough of them that most on here must have seen them already). You'd have no hesitation with someone taking your 16 yr old daughter there for a date.

"Just Say No" is basically the thing, like having the will power and personal respect of yourself to not start smoking when you hang around with people that smoke. I take my son to Snookers in RI a lot, where as you guys know some decent action happens, he knows what to take away from all the happenings and what to leave. And a great part of that is that the players there respect him being there with me that they try to maintain a more civil and "clean" manner when he is around. No-one is going to me or him and saying "hey, you shoot good for a 13 yr old, let me setup this easy game with a sucker that we can rob, he'll never expect a kid to bet him." I know that not all rooms are like that, nor all players, but it is possible to hang around all types of players and different pool rooms without being let to acting the same way as the "bad" ones.
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I guess I was saying that there are a million better places to take a kid to other than a pool room.... maybe a science center, museum, zoo, golf course.... maybe even investing that time into doing homework or volunteering at an animal shelter or senior center. I know not all pool rooms are dingy like that, but the MAJORITY of them are not places for kids.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I guess I was saying that there are a million better places to take a kid to other than a pool room.... maybe a science center, museum, zoo, golf course.... maybe even investing that time into doing homework or volunteering at an animal shelter or senior center. I know not all pool rooms are dingy like that, but the MAJORITY of them are not places for kids.
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Kim, in her own way, is in total agreement with you.

Here was a proposed match between 2 of the best straight pool players in the game. Kim decided that was best "for the kids" was that this match not happen.

Less pool is good for the kids.

Kevin
 
dawgcpa said:
.... Smack talk is part of sports, period. Just look at what goes on with the NFL, MLB, Nascar, etc. Heck, there will even be feuds and fighting on the PGA tour. If there wasn't we wouldn't watch it. Also, I don't see the smack talk driving away kids from those sports.....
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Correct. Rivalry, in and of itself, breeds contempt to lesser or greater degrees. Never mind sports, just look at any endeavor in life were two people are competing for the same thing.

"Hey, Bill, you know we both love her very much. I tried everything I could do to win her, but in the end, she picked you instead. How do I feel? To be honest, I couldn't be happier than I am for both of you. You are by far the better man, and really deserve her more that I do."

Remember that movie line? Right, there wasn't one, because it doesn't come close to reflecting real life feelings.

How about...

"Cindy, good luck on your interview tomorrow. I'm applying for the same position, but even though I've been here for twenty years and know this company inside out, while you just got hired three months ago and can't even work the coffee machine yet... I really admire you, and consider you to be an equal."


:rolleyes:


Competition in sports has led to a lot worse things than the Schmidt and Harriman rivalry. Doesn't always turn out bad for the sport in the end. Remember this guy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ37lyT6u8Y


The things Ali said about Frazier were some of the most vile and hurtful things he could say, and he said it all in front of the entire world, not on some obscure Internet forum post. He brought the sport of boxing back from near oblivion, and set an example for fighters to demand - and even engineer - the kind of paydays they deserve for their talent.

In the end, Ali is not remembered for the foul remarks he made back then, but for his undisputed mastery of ring tactics - rope-a-dope and all - and for his great, great heart in combat. Grown men got teary-eyed when he lit the Olympic torch at the '96 Games in Atlanta, and then again when he was selected to appear at the opening ceremony of the recent London games.

Even today, at 71 years of age, Ali is the most universally recognized and revered sports figures in the entire world. The pool world, well, we got Fatz.:embarrassed2:
 
Redacted

Can anyone else recall what Harriman said in his post on this thread that was allegedly pulled ?

By the way I think there may be a bigger payout for not chalking your cue if TAR were to propose a grudge match between john Schmidt and Bob Chamberlain.

If AZ mods are working to clean up pool with Str8shots there are probably a few threads that need to be pulled involving those two.
 
Houstoer said:
Str8shots should have worked with JCIN to produce this. They could have had an opening match with a couple good junio young guns from around Vegas and then worked it out with the players that a portion of their money whoever wins goes to the BEF... that would have gotten them great exposure. damn not too hard to figure out...
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Quit making so much sense! :wink:
Too bad str8-shots doesn't have you as their marketing director. I guess that's a decision for "upper management."
 
jay helfert said:
Quit making so much sense! :wink:
Too bad str8-shots doesn't have you as their marketing director. I guess that's a decision for "upper management."
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Str8 has it worked out. they will save pool the same way the gov't saved farms! Subsidies.

They will play players not to play. That's what's good for pool.
 
JCIN said:
I got a text that said that basically said "Hey man I want to run something by you and maybe get some info,"

At the time I was busy working on a new website and a match bigger than anything we have ever done before. So I didnt drop what I was doing to call and find out what plan Mark had up his sleeve this time. Remember the pro player chili contest?

Besides Mark doesnt have to call me about anything. Just like if he puts out a match possibility in public I am free to make an offer on it as well. Its called competition and it is good for the players and the fans. There is a reason I do not discuss what I am doing until its done though.

This is all a giant cluster. I will own part of the blame for getting pissed and posting after I read the OP. I talked to Kimberly from Str8 shots yesterday. She was very nice and professional. She explained that what came across in the OP was not what she meant to say and I believe her. My impression is that she and her husband are not very familiar with AZ or pro pool and its history. They are trying to do their own thing with a focus on kids it looks like and had no clue what they stumbled into here. I hold no ill will toward anyone and wish Str8 shots and Mark well.

I am going to call Corey now and see if I can get him to call Shane some names on facebook so I can drum up half this much interest in Fridays match that actually will be taking place.
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This is what's called straight talk! Not a bunch of mumbo jumbo here about who shot John? :rolleyes:
 
(((Satori))) said:
It might be just me but saying all proceeds go to charity and only giving a small amount of the gross seems deceptive.
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I just took a brief look at the str8shots web site. I read Kimberly's initial post in this thread and her first post on this forum. While I see they are involved in charitable work I see nothing to indicate they claim any type of tax exempt status. Some here have requested/demanded their mission statement, financials,funding etc. One gent even described 501c3 requirements etc. and his expertise in such corps. I just don't see where str8shots ever claimed to be a non profit. Again I feel str8shots handled this whole affair poorly. I believe Mr. Cantrill should have avoided trying to put together a match between JS and Danny or for that matter the 4th installment of Hunger Games. str8shots blocking this event on TAR, if that took place as it appears it did, was bad form to say the least. I just don't understand how the whole 501(c)(3) thing took root.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
Can anyone else recall what Harriman said in his post on this thread that was allegedly pulled ?

By the way I think there may be a bigger payout for not chalking your cue if TAR were to propose a grudge match between john Schmidt and Bob Chamberlain.

If AZ mods are working to clean up pool with Str8shots there are probably a few threads that need to be pulled involving those two.
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We need to be more on the ball here....when something interesting gets posted, someone quote it, ASAP. :p

I was thinking much the same thing, about the many previous interactions here on AZB over the years.

A goat and a cliff comes to mind (an all time great line) and many other rather animated posts, from both guys. To me, this is part of the package, and if you want John (or Danny or anyone else) you need to be prepared for how they represent themselves, before they represent your company. After you sign them is a bit too late.
 
justadub said:
We need to be more on the ball here....when something interesting gets posted, someone quote it, ASAP. :p

I was thinking much the same thing, about the many previous interactions here on AZB over the years.

A goat and a cliff comes to mind (an all time great line) and many other rather animated posts, from both guys. To me, this is part of the package, and if you want John (or Danny or anyone else) you need to be prepared for how they represent themselves, before they represent your company. After you sign them is a bit too late.
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The whole deal is silly. You have a morals or behavior clause in order to, as the sponsor, prevent yourself from having to hold hands and police the actions of your sponsee, and to give you an out of the arrangement if they behave in a way that you deem harmful to your image. To have the clause and then not allow your sponsee the freedom to adhere to it just shows their low opinion of pool players to begin with. If you have such a low opinion, get out of the pool player sponsorship business.

Cantrill, at almost the same time, pled ignorance of the situation between the 2 players and then used his tremendous understanding of the situation in order to defend their decision to stop the match.

Kevin
 
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