Update on 'Skill Level's'..Attn. Renfro !

[SJDinPHX]

Seriously..... I am pretty sure In the age of SJD any of today's shortstops would be legendary.... I asked around and every one who had heard of him had not seen him play since it was off the beaten track.... If he played Freddy then at best it was a battle of short stops in a day where short stops would have been challenged on the skill level of an apa 7 today.... Their hearts and gamble were surely greater but in some ways life used to be easier.<--Oh Really ???

Hi 'The',

I must have missed this old post of yours..Either that, or I thought it was too ridiculous to bother with a response ! But I am bored today.. You are right though, it was a piece of cake that my peers, in my prime ( who were also in theirs) included the likes of Lassiter, Buddy Hall, R. Allen, Ed Kelly, Greg Stevens, and a dozen or so other "APA 7's"

Yes I'm sure they would have just been so much 'fodder' for the guys YOU think are 'unbeatable' today !..I would also like to mention, that we had to play with clay balls, on green shag carpet, where it took a 'real stroke' to move whitey around. (not to mention unpredictable rails)

Yes, we have some great player's today, but plop all your 'heroes' down, in the conditions that existed 50 years ago, shake 'em
all out and lets see who would rise to the top of the heap !.. By the way, we all did it 'WITHOUT' DVD's, books, Aiming Systems, and all the refined equipment you take for granted today ! (possibly a blessing in disguise)

Good Luck wi' dat, 'The' !

SJD

PS..You're right about one thing though...San Francisco, Dallas, Houston, etc, were certainly..."OFF THE BEATEN PATH" !

Sorry, but even this guy, makes
more sense than you do !

 

[pt109]

I find it strange that SJD would be called the equivalent of a 'short-stop'.
I never saw him play when I was a kid but when I was amongst top
players, his name was spoken with respect.

May be we should define 'short-stop'.....
...a short-stop is a good player, he can beat any world champion in a race
to 11 on a good day.....but in a long money session, probably zero chance.
The cream always rises to the top in any era.....so if you switch eras
EITHER way, Richard Morran was not a 'short-stop'.

This is just my opinion....I miss the action days.....
...when people bet on their opinion.

 

[JAM]

I think sometimes age and geographic region of the country has a lot to do with who knows about who in th pool world. I am probably more familiar with many great players on the East Coast than I am on the West Coast.

Dick Moran was very well known in the West Coast circles, for sure. I'm not sure he may have ever ventured over to my neck of the woods, but I can probably name a few players that people from the West Coast region may have not heard of, yet are legendary champions. Tha'ts how I see it.

 

[DRW]

I find it strange that SJD would be called the equivalent of a 'short-stop'.
I never saw him play when I was a kid but when I was amongst top
players, his name was spoken with respect.

May be we should define 'short-stop'.....
...a short-stop is a good player, he can beat any world champion in a race
to 11 on a good day.....but in a long money session, probably zero chance.
The cream always rises to the top in any era.....so if you switch eras
EITHER way, Richard Morran was not a 'short-stop'.

This is just my opinion....I miss the action days.....
...when people bet on their opinion.

I think your definition of a short-stop is as good as it can be explained.:smile:

 

[book collector]

There are champions who can win tournaments and champions who can win the cash.
They have something almost every shortstop doesn't have and it is the reason they almost always win .
It's been amazing watching guys who never miss a ball against really good players giving them big spots, dog their guts out against someone who plays a ball better than them , even when they get weight.
There is a pecking order in pool and people know where they fit or they find out quick.
It is like an invisible steel wall they just can't find a way through.

 

[JB Cases]

I think part of it also comes from the fact that we tend to elevate those we know of far more than those we haven't heard of. Dick was by all accounts of others who were there certainly what is called a top-notcher and well above shortstop. But he didn't achieve the fame that now goes with Ronnie Allen, Eddie Taylor, Buddy Hall and many others simply because he stayed off the radar for the most part. We don't have any stories of him snapping off guys like Rempe or Sigel or Carella although he probably did a time or two.

Maybe if Dick hadn't quit to pursue a career then we would have more about him in print but we don't so it's one of those things where only the people who were there can be relied on to keep the record alive of a person's accomplishments.

I used to think he was probably about shortstop level myself when I was arguing with him - but I have since come to know and I believe it, that Dick was indeed a top notcher and elite player back then.

 

[ribdoner]

I think part of it also comes from the fact that we tend to elevate those we know of far more than those we haven't heard of. Dick was by all accounts of others who were there certainly what is called a top-notcher and well above shortstop. But he didn't achieve the fame that now goes with Ronnie Allen, Eddie Taylor, Buddy Hall and many others simply because he stayed off the radar for the most part. We don't have any stories of him snapping off guys like Rempe or Sigel or Carella although he probably did a time or two.

Maybe if Dick hadn't quit to pursue a career then we would have more about him in print but we don't so it's one of those things where only the people who were there can be relied on to keep the record alive of a person's accomplishments.

I used to think he was probably about shortstop level myself when I was arguing with him - but I have since come to know and I believe it, that Dick was indeed a top notcher and elite player back then.

bank on it!!

 

[Neil]

If someone is iin the Hall of Fame as a player, you can rest assured they are above shortstop level.:wink: A lot of people today think Don Willis was a so-so player also because he stayed under the radar. The real players knew different.

 

[jay helfert]

If someone is iin the Hall of Fame as a player, you can rest assured they are above shortstop level.:wink: A lot of people today think Don Willis was a so-so player also because he stayed under the radar. The real players knew different.

Don Willis never played in a tournament! In fact he avoided them at all costs until he got much older and wanted to see his old buddies. Trust me when I tell you he was at the top of the food chain in his day, right there with Lassiter. There wasn't a pool player who didn't know (and fear) the name Don Willis. Being from Ohio I was lucky to see Willis in action several times. He was the GREATEST at "lucking" in the five or nine ball in a money game, where they paid on the five and the nine and then re-spotted them. I watched him making billiard after billiard in ring games, getting paid for four or five money balls from three or four players. He would bust the game without ever running more than four or five balls! And that's with good players too (shortstops :wink.

San Jose Dick was not quite as well known all over the country, but all the top players knew who he was, a much feared One Pocket player! Like Willis, he stayed under the radar, avoiding the tournament scene. There was far more money to be made gambling back then. Dick had a rep as a 'long' player who would bet high. I only saw him play once with Ronnie and actually didn't know who he was until someone told me. I think Ronnie was giving him 9-8 and 8-7, and that got my attention. Usually Ronnie was giving up at least four balls to good players (like 10-6)! Dick quit in the 70's to go to work for UPS. He just got tired of the road and wanted a more normal life with his sweet wife. That's my educated guess.

 

[BeiberLvr]

No one should be offended if someone says top players of today are as good or even better than the top players of 30+ years ago. It's no different in any other sport. Technology, equipment, training methods. All of those things improve as we move forward. That, in turn, means players or athletes will improve as well.