I have several old block letter Joss cues. Three have solid ivory joints with the 3/8-10 screw. Two of them have a hairline crack. It doesn't effect play. Is it wise to get them replaced? Is there any repair material that looks good? Or should I just leave them alone as that is what many old ivory joints have done?
Ivory Joint Crack
- Thread starter jnf
- Start date
If they only have hair line cracks. As long as your not breaking with them. I wouldnt be to worried. If they start getting worse then you should have them fixed. I would certainly put Ivory back on them so you dont hurt the value of the cues. I have replaced a few ivory joints on JW's without no issues.
If you have any questions give me a shout.
If you have any questions give me a shout.
If they are regular shooters you like I'd get them repaired with a more durable material. I'll probably be crucified for saying this but collaring breathing wood with bone is just not a sensible idea imo. If they are collector cues and you wish to retain their value then by all means go back with original material, and of course keep them in as stable of an environment as possible.
I have a Adam cue that possibly has ivory at butt, joint and ferrule(?) If it does have an Ivory ferrule can it reasonably be replaced?
Depends on your definition of "reasonably". However, you should start your own thread on this.
What's the difference between using ivory (bone as you put it) and using other materials, such as antler, phenolic, ss, etc? I'm just confused on why it doesn't make sense you. If you could elaborate, I'd love to hear why.
ian<------ doesn't like crucifying anyone
What's the difference between using ivory (bone as you put it) and using other materials, such as antler, phenolic, ss, etc? I'm just confused on why it doesn't make sense you. If you could elaborate, I'd love to hear why.
ian<------ doesn't like crucifying anyone
Galipeau,
Different materials have popularity for different reasons.
The bottom line concerning joint or ferrule material is the hardness which is measured on a hardness scale.
Juma is harder than most ivory but the sound characteristic don't reflect that as ivory has a higher pitch for example when used on a ferrule. Many people use Ivory because they like the sound feedback from a measured stroke.
Ivory joints do have a tendency to crack and do not like big temperature swings or hitting a cue ball hard when they are cold.
Many cue makers sleeve their ivory joints but still I have seen them crack also.
There are plenty of material out there for joints but with ivory you never know when it will crack. I do not guarantee ivory joints and try to dissuade customers from using it because when it cracks I will not fix it for free. Replacing and ivory joint is not a cheap repair job as it also requires a refinish blend on the forearm also.
I am a big believer of the use of Juma and do not even use phenolics at all any more for many reasons. Juma is the best thing that has happened in the cue building world the way I see things.
Of coarse all of this is JMO,
Rick
What's the difference between using ivory (bone as you put it) and using other materials, such as antler, phenolic, ss, etc? I'm just confused on why it doesn't make sense you. If you could elaborate, I'd love to hear why.
ian<------ doesn't like crucifying anyone
Because of the elasticity difference between wood (high to very high depending on species and how well it's sealed), bone, or antler ( practically none, and ivory and antler are both in fact bone).
Other commonly used materials for ferrules and collars are generally variations of plastic and have elastic properties somewhat, which is why they hold up so much better.
All that said, I love the look of ivory, but don't put it in my shooters.
Renegade,
I agree with your post 100%.
I have also noticed that ferrules seem to hold up pretty good. I think the reason there is a lot of joint cracks is because they are in tension when the joint is screwed together.
Rick
double post,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Antlers can be sealed . They have pores . They can be pressure-sealed . In fact thin epoxy even penetrates the inside wall. Drill out the marrow. Plug up the bottom 1/8" with delrin plug. Fill-up the hole with thin epoxy. Go back the next day and check where the epoxy went. Antlers are easier to age/season than ivory. Drill a hole and stick them in the trunk of your car for weeks or months .
Ivories crack or check for so many reasons . The capped ones with no relief on the faces are probably the most susceptible to cracking . The joint pin on cues flex . Imagine than putting side to side pressure on the ivory cap.
Checking is probably caused by too dry or hot conditions or too cold conditions. Everything that freezes, shrinks ( except water ). Imagine press-fit ivory collars. They have internal pressure as it is . Add the shrinking factor.
Bill Stroud said phenolic sleeved ivory collars work best for him.
I had no idea Juma is harder than ivory. My router and tool bits tell me the opposite .
ivory is more dense and shears harder. I have no idea how Juma can be harder.
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So renegade, an I correct in stating that you prefer materials that are alternative to ivory or antler as they are more predictable, stable, etc? I think this was what I was trying to understand. Thank you guys for elaborating. I really find this stuff fascinating. rick, you have a very extensive wealth of knowledge (same to you renegade).
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