Pool Is One Of The Hardest Games

[Rackemep]

Pool is absolutely one tough game to play at a top level, no doubt about it...The elite players just seem to have a sixth sense when it comes to the game. They make it look natural and easy. I believe this to be true with just about anything you can "master" not limited to just sports or games. In my mind it boils down to natural talent, determination, knowledge and heart to master anything. You can put in all the practice in the world but if you're missing one of those ingredients you'll always be just a mere mortal like most of us...

 

[JB Cases]

Pool is absolutely one tough game to play at a top level, no doubt about it...The elite players just seem to have a sixth sense when it comes to the game. They make it look natural and easy. I believe this to be true with just about anything you can "master" not limited to just sports or games. In my mind it boils down to natural talent, determination, knowledge and heart to master anything. You can put in all the practice in the world but if you're missing one of those ingredients you'll always be just a mere mortal like most of us...

Luckily for me I am able to hang around Joey Gray a little. The guy is so good no one wants to challenge him to play one pocket at all. He is not only suffocatingly precise but as knowledgeable as anyone in the game.

So, in talking ABOUT him to various people you get two stories.

Story1 - Joey is a monster natural talent.

Story 2 - Joey has had a ton of training paid for by a backer who brought in coaches and bought him every bit of material on one pocket that exists, which Joey ingested voraciously and retained.

And then there is Joey's story about himself - of a teenager who worked at the pizza place and then hopped the bus EVERY weekend to go to Tulsa and dump off the money to any good player who would play him. The 15 year old who took a road trip by greyhound through the Carolinas and played guys like Tony Watson for serious money. The player who INVESTED most of his life into obtaining the knowledge and seasoning to understand the game as much as humanly possible BUT who also stays open minded to learning new things.

So again the story boils down to extreme dedication and desire to get to the point where that level of skill seems almost supernatural.

As the old saying goes, 'any ten year old could do what I do if they have 20 years of experience'.

 

[SJDinPHX]

So, in talking ABOUT Joey Gray to various people you get two stories.

Story1 - Joey is a monster natural talent.

Story 2 - Joey has had a ton of training paid for by a backer who brought in coaches and bought him every bit of material on one pocket that exists, which Joey ingested voraciously and retained.

As the old saying goes, 'any ten year old could do what I do if they have 20 years of experience'. <--As you know John, I will pick door #1..I know you are solidly behind door #2, but aren't you contradicting yourself with your last sentence

By the way, Happy Birthday John..(You don't look a day over 60:embarrassed2...Did you notice, being as you removed your "Lou taunting" sig line, I also removed MY "John taunting" sig line in reciprocation...Your Welcome ! ......Also, heres a
new boat for your birthday !

The good ship, ROC John Barton.

 

[justadub]

Hitting a round ball, thrown at 100 mph, with movement, and hitting it with a round bat, from 66 feet away, is among the most difficult things to do in sports. The scientists have done plenty of studies on this.

That doesn't take away from the difficulty of mastering any sport.

Some people have a more natural aptitude for different sports of activity. They improve faster than others who have similar athletic ability. This is part of what fascinates us when watching sports, pretty much each and every player we see on TV are amazing athletes, and can out perform us mere mortals at most sports. But what is it that separates them from each other? Physical aptitude, and mental aptitude, toughness, character, determination...the "clutch" gene...? All of the above, methinks.

To play pool at the highest level is extremely difficult, compared to the ability most of us possess. Same as in other sports...

 

[KRJ]

Hitting a round ball, thrown at 100 mph, with movement, and hitting it with a round bat, from 66 feet away, is among the most difficult things to do in sports. The scientists have done plenty of studies on this.

That doesn't take away from the difficulty of mastering any sport.

Some people have a more natural aptitude for different sports of activity. They improve faster than others who have similar athletic ability. This is part of what fascinates us when watching sports, pretty much each and every player we see on TV are amazing athletes, and can out perform us mere mortals at most sports. But what is it that separates them from each other? Physical aptitude, and mental aptitude, toughness, character, determination...the "clutch" gene...? All of the above, methinks.

To play pool at the highest level is extremely difficult, compared to the ability most of us possess. Same as in other sports...

about time you got here dub, always the voice of reason around these parts

 

[KRJ]

II'll be happy to propose a bet, to those who think pool is so easy, for a series of shots with precise cb position that i believe a pro level player could rather routinely accomplish.

That is the problem with folks that don't want to use logic... NOBODY said pool was easy, we are only saying with much information and personal observation, that many other sports are MUCH more difficult to master. So, what, why does that bother pool folks.....

I can teach a 18 yr old who never played pool and spend a few months with them, and they will be able to compete in the local league....tey are not gonna be MVP or even the best on their team, but they will be mid range and pocket balls, and actually help the team.

That same 18 year old than has never thrown a football or a baseball, would take several years (with the strong possibility they will NEVER be able to compete) before they are gonna join the local park district baseball league (COLT League around these parts) and actually compete... why do you think that is exactly ?

Bring this up in a bar over a few beers and watch your non playing pool buddies laugh you outta town

 

[The Kiss]

Sorry folks. Pool is not even in the top 50 sports of difficulty. Number one belongs to baseball according to an extensive research by Sports Illustrated. The hand eye coordination and the speed to actually hit a 90 MPH slider is ungodly.

The human eye can't even track the baseball for the last 5 feet, and thus why the pitchers with balls the break the latest, pitch the best.

I believe pool was rated just about fishing in terms of difficulty, but way below cheerleading.

Now, that is not a knock on pool, it takes a lot of time to be great at anything. But how many 19 year old pitchers can compete against the BEST hitters in the game. There is a reason why they throw $100 million dollar contract around the MLB like they are nickels, cause there are only some many folks that can play at that level.

Same with football. There are only some many folks that can play QB in the NFL, even most of the best college QB's fail in the NFL.

Heck, even Earl Strickland knows it takes more skill to play gold and tennis than pool, and he happens to be pretty good at both of them...

While hitting a baseball might be the hardest thing to do in Sports. I can walk into a batting cage and hit the fastest the thing will throw but I am only a B player and I have played about 15 more years of pool than baseball. And I was nowhere close to being a Superstar at baseball but I could hit the ball well

 

[nobcitypool]

That is the problem with folks that don't want to use logic... NOBODY said pool was easy, we are only saying with much information and personal observation, that many other sports are MUCH more difficult to master. So, what, why does that bother pool folks.....

I can teach a 18 yr old who never played pool and spend a few months with them, and they will be able to compete in the local league....tey are not gonna be MVP or even the best on their team, but they will be mid range and pocket balls, and actually help the team.

That same 18 year old than has never thrown a football or a baseball, would take several years (with the strong possibility they will NEVER be able to compete) before they are gonna join the local park district baseball league (COLT League around these parts) and actually compete... why do you think that is exactly ?

Bring this up in a bar over a few beers and watch your non playing pool buddies laugh you outta town

For many, that would be because they have no athletic ability. You can't teach athletic ability. However, a reasonable athlete that played little league and some high school ball could go out and be part of those leagues. I've seen many, many people that never played any organized baseball play adult league softball very well.

You're comparing apples to oranges but that's you're prerogative. BTW, the conversation was actually about playing pool at a very high level, or at least my point was. Playing in the local league is similar to Little League Baseball including the guys who can't hold the bat right. In Mark Wilson's book, he believes it takes 10,000 hours of focused practice to achieve pro level. That's quite a bit more than those fellows playing in the local Colt league baseball or football.

 

[justadub]

While hitting a baseball might be the hardest thing to do in Sports. I can walk into a batting cage and hit the fastest the thing will throw but I am only a B player and I have played about 15 more years of pool than baseball. And I was nowhere close to being a Superstar at baseball but I could hit the ball well

Hitting in a cage, (even making contact) is doable tor many who grew up playing ball, even without being a top player. Hell, even this 50 year old who stopped playing in high school can hit the 90 mph machine here occasionally.

But hitting a pitched ball, with the pitcher attempting to fool you with variation in speed and location, not to mention movement, is a whole other thing. Today's pitchers throw upwards of 100 mph, which batting cages don't touch, and that 10 mph is a big deal. Add movement and speed variation, crazy difficult. And that's just actually hitting it, not getting a hit or achieving power.





That having been said, SVB can make the che ball do things with such precision that even

 

[justadub]

Hitting in a cage, (even making contact) is doable tor many who grew up playing ball, even without being a top player. Hell, even this 50 year old who stopped playing in high school can hit the 90 mph machine here occasionally.

But hitting a pitched ball, with the pitcher attempting to fool you with variation in speed and location, not to mention movement, is a whole other thing. Today's pitchers throw upwards of 100 mph, which batting cages don't touch, and that 10 mph is a big deal. Add movement and speed variation, crazy difficult. And that's just actually hitting it, not getting a hit or achieving power.





That having been said, SVB can make the che ball do things with such precision that even

Hate this tablet!


SVB can do things with the cue ball that even other accomplished players cannot do.

This is true in all sports.

 

[SJDinPHX]

That is the problem with folks that don't want to use logic... NOBODY said pool was easy, we are only saying with much information and personal observation, that many other sports are MUCH more difficult to master. <--And you KNOW this because.....???? (how many have you mastered?)

I can teach a 18 yr old who never played pool and spend a few months with them, and they will be able to compete in the local league. <--and you KNOW this because....???? (what would qualify you to teach pool?)

That same 18 year old than has never thrown a football or a baseball, would take several years (with the strong possibility they will NEVER be able to compete) <--Sure, if he were a 'special olympic's kid !...Why do you think that is exactly ? <-- No, exactly WHY do "YOU" think that is ?

Mr. RJ...You forgot to follow up with Mr. Barton's usual ironclad guarantee he is telling us the truth !...{ie:} "There have been THOUSANDS of 'scientific studies and tests', proving my point !"

 

[The Kiss]

Oh I totally agree curveballs and change ups are a different story. But like Pedro Cerrano I hit straight ball very much, curve ball not so much. Im also not talking contact talking line drives. But I still have not mastered pool and never will. Maybe if I started pool at 6 like baseball instead of about 12 with pool.

 

[BELDING]

I agree pool is really tough,to play at high level.

 

[The Renfro]

That is the problem with folks that don't want to use logic... NOBODY said pool was easy, we are only saying with much information and personal observation, that many other sports are MUCH more difficult to master. So, what, why does that bother pool folks.....

I can teach a 18 yr old who never played pool and spend a few months with them, and they will be able to compete in the local league....tey are not gonna be MVP or even the best on their team, but they will be mid range and pocket balls, and actually help the team.

That same 18 year old than has never thrown a football or a baseball, would take several years (with the strong possibility they will NEVER be able to compete) before they are gonna join the local park district baseball league (COLT League around these parts) and actually compete... why do you think that is exactly ?

Bring this up in a bar over a few beers and watch your non playing pool buddies laugh you outta town

For many people other sports are MUCH harder and for some they are MUCH easier... It depends on the sport and the skill set required and IF you got your share of that skill set... Just like training cannot make you a super athlete practice cannot transform you into a spatial calculating machine.. That's the rub.. It's a skill but not like speed or strength or quick reflexes that has been measured forever but a skill that has up until recently not been identified.... It's like logic... some people think logically and others post on here as Chicago-ans... That was in jest by the way... We all know people who will never think logically or analytically ... you aren't going to train them to do so.... Ever... Kind of like I am never going to play in the NBA.. I can improve and they can improve but the ceiling is in place...

 

[one stroke]

Oh I totally agree curveballs and change ups are a different story. But like Pedro Cerrano I hit straight ball very much, curve ball not so much. Im also not talking contact talking line drives. But I still have not mastered pool and never will. Maybe if I started pool at 6 like baseball instead of about 12 with pool.

It's not tennis pool does not require starting at the age of 6 and neither does baseball
The fact is it often takes yrs before you can recognize if a player of other sports is going to have not only the skill but the physical requirements speed quickness and size all are factors that simply does not exist in pool
By the shear numbers the chances of being a top player in pool is far more likely than any sport bar none ,, but then again why we compare it to a sport is ridicules in its self


1

 

[KRJ]

Mr. RJ...You forgot to follow up with Mr. Barton's usual ironclad guarantee he is telling us the truth !...{ie:} "There have been THOUSANDS of 'scientific studies and tests', proving my point !"

Because I actually teach both sports... you can't say the same thing,,,, I didn't think so. If you really want my resume, I'd be glad to PM you with it, but no reason to bore the good folks in the main forum

SO, your logic is only because you played pool... and I'm assuming you don't know anything about other sports, nor coached other sports, nor played other sports..... but you are pretty sure you're right again... is that about right

 

[KRJ]

I agree pool is really tough,to play at high level.

ALL sports are tough to play at a high level.. bowling, shuffle board, cheerleading, soccer, the list goes on...

 

[KRJ]

For many, that would be because they have no athletic ability. You can't teach athletic ability. However, a reasonable athlete that played little league and some high school ball could go out and be part of those leagues. I've seen many, many people that never played any organized baseball play adult league softball very well.

.

BINGO. And with pool you don't need athletic ability. Thus, why it is easier to reach a higher level.... Most athletic sports weed out the others pretty quickly.....

And, btw, adult softball is NOT baseball.... I would never assume folks that never played pool, can play pretty good bumper pool in the basement as logic that it's an easy sport...

For the record, I will say pool is one of the toughest NON athletic sports to master.... does that make any of my couch potato pool buddies feel any better

 

[Jaden]

This isn't the best topic to discuss...

If you don't want to research my history, that's fine..But I am not about to furnish a resume, or a beat list for you !..If it bothers you so much, there is plenty of info in these archives, you wouldn't have to go to 1P.org

Actually, I only have a problem with people who think learning to play top level pool, (specifically one pocket) is a piece of cake... I have a little thing going, with John Barton, in that regard, and also CJ, with his insisting how EASY a game one pocket is to play. (I guess that's why he never bothered to learn it)

There are plenty of guys here on AZB, that know how difficult a game pool is to learn.. I just can't understand why there are so many who compare it with hitting a curve ball, or playing horseshoes !...Why are they on a pool forum ?
Could it be because they are trying to learn why pool didn't come easy to them ? If you don't want me defending that position, just ask Jay Helfert, or Buddy Hall, or John Schmidt, or anyone who really knows pool !

PS..I have to believe the dissenters on this thread, just don't know what they are talking about...John B. should know better, and CJ damn sure does !...They both just love to argue with me !

I hate to say this, but most people just don't have the requisite knowledge to even be a participant in this discussion. They may think they do because they are an apa 7 or they can run a rack of nineball.

I will say one thing that I don't think can be argued with, pool at the highest levels requires more consistency than almost any other sport.

Also, most people don't understand how precise you have to be to play pool at the highest levels, especially in a game like one pocket.

The highest levels of one hole require a precision that the average player just doesn't understand.

I forgot their name now but when I was in OKC some guys there had this little game that was about precision CB control. They were telling me how Joey Gray had done it. I actually liked it quite a bit, I wish I could remember it now.

I guarantee you that even most runout players couldn't come any where near to completing the game right. Because most games, eightball, nineball, even one pocket with the right shot selections for the player don't require precise position play for the average player. But the top players HAVE that precise position play.

Also, I heard someone mention the precision required for darts. That's a singular object being thrown 5 feet (your feet are at 6 ft but your arm extends out). Pool is about striking one round object precisely into another round object and having BOTH balls do what you want them to.

I don't think there is another valid comparison in any sport to the difficulty in doing that with the precision that is required in pool.

Golf is probably a near exception because there are so many factors at play.

That's the key to the difficulty of the sport. How much knowledge is necessary to play it at a high level???

Pool is 90% knowledge and 10% execution.
The knowledge part also includes knowledge of how to accurately and consistently execute. That's what separates a lot of short stops and A players from the pros, the knowledge of how to execute accurately and consistently(and under pressure).

Once you figure out what to do so that you do what you are trying to each time, THEN you become your best.

Jaden

 

[KRJ]

I hate to say this, but most people just don't have the requisite knowledge to even be a participant in this discussion. They may think they do because they are an apa 7 or they can run a rack of nineball.

I will say one thing that I don't think can be argued with, pool at the highest levels requires more consistency than almost any other sport.

Also, most people don't understand how precise you have to be to play pool at the highest levels, especially in a game like one pocket.

The highest levels of one hole require a precision that the average player just doesn't understand.

I forgot their name now but when I was in OKC some guys there had this little game that was about precision CB control. They were telling me how Joey Gray had done it. I actually liked it quite a bit, I wish I could remember it now.

I guarantee you that even most runout players couldn't come any where near to completing the game right. Because most games, eightball, nineball, even one pocket with the right shot selections for the player don't require precise position play for the average player. But the top players HAVE that precise position play.

Also, I heard someone mention the precision required for darts. That's a singular object being thrown 5 feet (your feet are at 6 ft but your arm extends out). Pool is about striking one round object precisely into another round object and having BOTH balls do what you want them to.

I don't think there is another valid comparison in any sport to the difficulty in doing that with the precision that is required in pool.

Golf is probably a near exception because there are so many factors at play.

That's the key to the difficulty of the sport. How much knowledge is necessary to play it at a high level???

Pool is 90% knowledge and 10% execution.
The knowledge part also includes knowledge of how to accurately and consistently execute. That's what separates a lot of short stops and A players from the pros, the knowledge of how to execute accurately and consistently(and under pressure).

Once you figure out what to do so that you do what you are trying to each time, THEN you become your best.

Jaden

And the same argument can be made for baseball, football, hockey, etc., that folks like SJD have no idea what it takes to play at a high level of any of those sports, and exactly how difficult it is, correct ?