Pool Is One Of The Hardest Games

[KRJ]

You sir are talking ''out of an area'' you have no clue about. If you think Mika Winning the US Open 9 Ball after losing his first match, and then going, I think its 13 rounds, as I've won this way before myself, but NOT with That kinda field depth. But if you say this man is NOT athletic, you've shown your hand. Verbal Thread battles not needed here, Common Sense speaks too LOUDLY.

Oh, geez, relax. Did I say that no player is in good physical condition? No, I didn't think so. The sport is a non athletic endeavor, plain and simple, and one reason MOST players do not need exercise or have to be gifted athletically. I'm betting the MIZ in his heyday could NOT do 10 push ups....

It is a sport, and I've argued that before,, as some folks think it is just a "game"... and that is because it does take very good hand eye coordination, and something most games do not need, like chess, for example....

 

[KRJ]

This is where 'assuming' can get you in trouble, RJ...Certainly not saying I was a Pro at any sport, but I did letter on the varsity baseball team, all three years I attended high school, from freshman on...Baseball and ice hockey were my first love, after pool. I had a rifle for an arm (played 3rd base and catcher) and I was always the most productive hitter on our team.

I believe you, no reason why I should not. That is very cool that you played ball. But after HS, you hit a brick wall, and could NOT go any further. Am I assuming here as well ? But in a sport like pool, it got yourself elected to the 1P HOF because of the high level you played. Unfortunately, even playing at that level you could not make a living and went back to work to support the family, which was the RIGHT thing to do

 

[CJ Wiley]

Full Definition of ATHLETE - good at sports, games, or exercises

Pay attention to the bouncing ball ,,, first I can assure you John Daly and Jason Dufner are not wining any all around athletic test there are many golfers that would not be considerd athletic by anyone's other than your definition
I know your not suggesting that pool players at the pro level have more hours of instruction from a coach than a PGA pro has that's simply nonsense so stop already
And of course golfers can play pool but pro ams are covered with other sports stars that are scratch golfers ,,
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I would say that golfers AND pool players are considered athletes by definition. It's difficult to argue that pool is a game that requires skill and strength....it certainly does.

ath·lete noun \ˈath-ˌlēt, ÷ˈa-thə-ˌlēt\
: a person who is trained in or good at sports, games, or exercises that require physical skill and strength

Full Definition of ATHLETE

: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina

 

[SJDinPHX]

I believe you, no reason why I should not. That is very cool that you played ball. But after HS, you hit a brick wall, and could NOT go any further. Am I assuming here as well ? But in a sport like pool, it got yourself elected to the 1P HOF because of the high level you played. Unfortunately, even playing at that level you could not make a living and went back to work to support the family, which was the RIGHT thing to do

I don't know what you mean by "hitting a brick wall, after high school" ?..I played pool, seriously, for 25 years after I left HS... I did not go to work at UPS, until I was in my early 40's. (you are correct about one thing though, it was the 'RIGHT thing to do')

So once again, you are 'assuming' wrong !.. I never cared for tournaments, because in my day, there were NO lucrative tournaments..(a situation which still exists today.) Also, I have always either had a decent job, or owned a business, and rarely depended on pool, as a sole source of income.

Even though I always loved all sports, I don't think I ever implied I was good enough to make it as a professional in any of them !...My position is much like CJ's...I played other games well enough to make a solid comparison of the difficulty level it takes to become VERY proficient at pool... You are continually trying to say pool is a 'piece of cake' to learn, compared to hitting a 90 mph curve ball !...Sorry RJ...IMHO, You couldn't be more WRONG ! :sorry:

PS..We both know there are different skill sets involved, but the numbers should tell you something...There are literally thousands upon thousands of guy's, in pro sports. (PGA. MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.) MANY of whom were exposed to pool at an early age, LONG BEFORE their chosen sports became so financially rewarding ! ..How many world class pool players can you recall..100 ?..150 ?

 

[easy-e]

I don't know what you mean by "hitting a brick wall, after high school" ?..I played pool, seriously, for 25 years after I left HS... I did not go to work at UPS, until I was in my early 40's. (you are correct about one thing though, it was the 'RIGHT thing to do')

So once again, you are 'assuming' wrong !.. I never cared for tournaments, because in my day, there were NO lucrative tournaments..(a situation which still exists today.) Also, I have always either had a job, or owned a business, and rarely depended on pool, as a sole source of income.

Even though I always loved all sports, I don't think I ever implied I was good enough to make it as a professional...My position is much like CJ's, I played other games well enough to make a solid comparison of the difficulty level it takes to become VERY proficient at pool... You are continually trying to say pool is a 'piece of cake' to learn, compared to hitting a 90 mph curve ball !
Sorry RJ...IMHO, You couldn't be more WRONG !

PS..We both know there are different skill sets involved, but the numbers should tell you something...There are literally thousands upon thousands of guy's, in pro sports. (PGA. MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.) MANY of whom were exposed to pool at an early age, long before their chosen sports became so financially rewarding ! .. How many world class pool players can you recall..100 ?..150 ?

If pool paid like the other sports, the number of players would be there.

 

[StuartTKelley]

Definition: Natural talent is an innate or inborn gift for a specific activity, either allowing one to demonstrate some immediate skill without practice, or to gain skill rapidly with minimal practice.



By this definition, the key advantage of natural talent is that it allows the individual a steep learning curve, whereby he or she acquires skills readily with less practice or hard work than the average person. As well as the advantage of learning quickly, natural talent is also said to increase one’s maximum potential. This implies that each individual has a ceiling that caps the highest level of performance they can attain, no matter how hard or long they train. For gifted performers, this ceiling is said to be higher

I agree with this. Only those with natural talent will achieve the highest levels of their respective sports, hobbies, etc....and with proper training they will be better than anyone who just trains, practices, and learns to do something well. I think the vast majority of us are the latter.

 

[SJDinPHX]

If pool paid like the other sports, the number of players would be there.

Mr. E, you may have missed my PS..I said; "There were many thousands exposed to pool, LONG BEFORE their chosen sports became so financially rewarding"..It has only been the last 35-40 years or so, that pro sport salaries, and PGA purses, started going crazy !...What about all the preceeding years ?

 

[one stroke]

I don't know what you mean by "hitting a brick wall, after high school" ?..I played pool, seriously, for 25 years after I left HS... I did not go to work at UPS, until I was in my early 40's. (you are correct about one thing though, it was the 'RIGHT thing to do')

So once again, you are 'assuming' wrong !.. I never cared for tournaments, because in my day, there were NO lucrative tournaments..(a situation which still exists today.) Also, I have always either had a job, or owned a business, and rarely depended on pool, as a sole source of income.

Even though I always loved all sports, I don't think I ever implied I was good enough to make it as a professional...My position is much like CJ's, I played other games well enough to make a solid comparison of the difficulty level it takes to become VERY proficient at pool... You are continually trying to say pool is a 'piece of cake' to learn, compared to hitting a 90 mph curve ball !
Sorry RJ...IMHO, You couldn't be more WRONG !

PS..We both know there are different skill sets involved, but the numbers should tell you something...There are literally thousands upon thousands of guy's, in pro sports. (PGA. MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.) MANY of whom were exposed to pool at an early age, long before their chosen sports became so financially rewarding ! .. How many world class pool players can you recall..100 ?..150 ?

To lay the bat on 90 mph fastball and 75 mph and do that at over a 300 clip is considered to be one if the most difficult tasks in the world lets remember that's failure of 70 % of the time ,,
if you pitched and played Qb and can't play pool you either didn't play much or the competition was not that good ,, JB will tell you the only thing that separates you and Shane is practice ,, I won't go that far but if your skilled in those sports your much more likely to be good at pool than taking pool players to do what you did in your sports
I have known several pro level players just from my area the smart ones like Mike Davis got a job,, if pool paid more money you would have to close the borders because player from the Philippines Asia and other parts of the world would be flocking here to make money .. there is probably a pro level player on every corner in the Philippines
world class is one thing pro level and entirely different animal there are kids out there that can win a set against good pro players with years more experience its far more likely to happen in pool than any other sport


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[KRJ]

I don't know what you mean by "hitting a brick wall, after high school" ?..I played pool, seriously, for 25 years after I left HS... I did not go to work at UPS, until I was in my early 40's. (you are correct about one thing though, it was the 'RIGHT thing to do')

So once again, you are 'assuming' wrong !.. I never cared for tournaments, because in my day, there were NO lucrative tournaments..(a situation which still exists today.) Also, I have always either had a decent job, or owned a business, and rarely depended on pool, as a sole source of income.

Even though I always loved all sports, I don't think I ever implied I was good enough to make it as a professional in any of them !...My position is much like CJ's...I played other games well enough to make a solid comparison of the difficulty level it takes to become VERY proficient at pool... You are continually trying to say pool is a 'piece of cake' to learn, compared to hitting a 90 mph curve ball !...Sorry RJ...IMHO, You couldn't be more WRONG ! :sorry:

PS..We both know there are different skill sets involved, but the numbers should tell you something...There are literally thousands upon thousands of guy's, in pro sports. (PGA. MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.) MANY of whom were exposed to pool at an early age, LONG BEFORE their chosen sports became so financially rewarding ! ..How many world class pool players can you recall..100 ?..150 ?

I'm assuming you could not play at a higher level of baseball once you left HS, nothing more and nothing less was implied.

And so we both played other sports, only I actually coach/teach two of them, baseball and pool. So, we might have to agree to disagree.

But comparing the number of "pro" athletes to the number of pool athletes in the US is just kinda silly, don't ya think. So, because there are 30 MLB teams, with 25 players per team, it must be easier because the US does NOT have any pro teams, and is pretty much dysfunctional even in terms of a pro tour?

But out of those 25, there are tens of thousands of HS, and colleges with folks playing ball, and would LOVE to be a pro baseball player...but cannot. There is nobody playing pool because the sport has faded, and there is no money in it unless your name is Lee, or Fisher.

In a prior post I mention the lesson I gave and spoke about his wife who won the NCAA fencing singles champion three years our of four. So, I assumed their 3 year old daughter was going to be a fencing champion just like mom (her dad was a fencing coach in the Ukraine) and they both said, NO, she is going to play tennis, there is NO money in fencing

Now, we can't not assume fencing is automatically more difficult than tennis just because there are "thousands" of professional tennis players on the planet, and only a few hundred fencing professionals, could you ?? I mean, I've never met a professional checkers player, but I'm not going to dare assumed checkers is more difficult that Chess

 

[JB Cases]

To lay the bat on 90 mph fastball and 75 mph and do that at over a 300 clip is considered to be one if the most difficult tasks in the world lets remember that's failure of 70 % of the time ,,
if you pitched and played Qb and can't play pool you either didn't play much or the competition was not that good ,, JB will tell you the only thing that separates you and Shane is practice ,, I won't go that far but if your skilled in those sports your much more likely to be good at pool than taking pool players to do what you did in your sports
I have known several pro level players just from my area the smart ones like Mike Davis got a job,, if pool paid more money you would have to close the borders because player from the Philippines Asia and other parts of the world would be flocking here to make money .. there is probably a pro level player on every corner in the Philippines
world class is one thing pro level and entirely different animal there are kids out there that can win a set against good pro players with years more experience its far more likely to happen in pool than any other sport


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I think you're right. Judging by your posts the only thing that separates you and the rest of humanity is that every other human is at least 100 points above you. Therefore the intelligence gene is not present in you.

Otherwise you would have the capability to comprehend what you read. You would also have the ability to go out and increase your intelligence by doing your own research. These skills are obviously beyond your biological capabilities so the conclusion I draw is that you are correct, some people, like you, are just born stupid and doomed to stay that way.

I would have said that the only thing that separates us is a desire to learn and expand your mind but sadly I can see that this is not a possibility for you. My deepest condolences Mark.

Meanwhile, for myself, I, and everyone around me now can see the benefits of increased focused practice. The difference in my game from four weeks ago until today with an average of four hours of practice a day is clear to every one of my pool playing colleagues here. I am very sorry that you will obviously never get to experience the joy of improvement.

You have my pity sir.

 

[SJDinPHX]

To lay the bat on 90 mph fastball and 75 mph and do that at over a 300 clip is considered to be one if the most difficult tasks in the world lets remember that's failure of 70 % of the time ,,
if you pitched and played Qb and can't play pool you either didn't play much or the competition was not that good,,** JB will tell you the only thing that separates you and Shane is practice ,, I won't go that far but if your skilled in those sports your much more likely to be good at pool than taking pool players to do what you did in your sports
I have known several pro level players just from my area the smart ones like Mike Davis got a job,, if pool paid more money you would have to close the borders because player from the Philippines Asia and other parts of the world would be flocking here to make money .. there is probably a pro level player on every corner in the Philippines. <--I wonder, could that be because there are NO professional sports (in the Philipines) to compete for a youngster's attention ?..Also, most Filipino's happen to be too small in stature, to compete at team sports, like football !.. That's why they love their pool over there !
world class is one thing pro level and entirely different animal there are kids out there that can win a set against good pro players with years more experience its far more likely to happen in pool than any other sport <--This statement makes no sense at all !..I may win one or two holes, in a round of golf with Tiger Woods...Does this mean I play golf as good as him ?...What you are saying, is a shortstop, winning a short set, or a few games with SVB or Efren, means they play pool as good as them ???

You know, sometimes I feel like this is NOT really a pool forum, comprised of 'hard core' pool enthusiast's !..There are a few, such as yourself and Chi-RJ, that make me feel like I may have wandered off into a chess forum or something ???
May I ask, when you feel like making me wrong in my belief's, does that mean you also think Jay Helfert, The Beard, CJ, Incardona, Buddy Hall, and all the other guys saying the same thing, are full of crap ?..

As for John B.,** he is a proponent of 'aiming systems', and practicing until your arms fall off..(so he doesn't count ! )..Trust me, John knows better, he just prefers arguing, to admitting ANYONE else may be right....About ANYTHING !

 

[Spimp13]

There are a few, such as yourself and Chi-RJ, that make me feel like I may have wandered off into a chess forum or something ???

$#%^$% Chess, it's too boring...well unless these are your pieces....ok, back to today's programming.

 

[easy-e]

You know, sometimes I feel like this is NOT really a pool forum, comprised of 'hard core' pool enthusiast's !..There are a few, such as yourself and Chi-RJ, that make me feel like I may have wandered off into a chess forum or something ???
May I ask, when you feel like making me wrong in my belief's, does that mean you also think Jay Helfert, The Beard, CJ, Incardona, Buddy Hall, and all the other guys saying the same thing, are full of crap ?..

As for John B.,** he is a proponent of 'aiming systems', and practicing until your arms fall off..(so he doesn't count ! )..Trust me, John knows better, he just prefers arguing, to admitting ANYONE else may be right....About ANYTHING !

Do you ever get tired of arguing with EVERYBODY?

 

[JB Cases]

If that was even remotely true, pool players would change careers in a heartbeat... the 100th best golfer on the planet is living the life of Riley, the 100th best pool player might not know where his next meal is coming from.

You need NO physical athleticism to play pool.... with other sports that is half the battle..... thus why SVB could NEVER play NFL QB like Manning, and Manning might not ever play pool like SVB, but he would get a lot closer

and after a few years of training, I'm pretty sure a dedicated athlete like Manning would NOT embarrass himself in a tournament,,, prolly not gonna get in the money, but embarrassed, hardly. SVB might not even survive training camp No offense to SVB, I'm not thinking I would either !!!

I disagree that you don't need any athleticism to play pool. That's simply not true. Anytime an activity requires stamina and dexterity then that activity requires some degree of athleticism. Pool definitely requires that. If we actually chart the distance players walk around the table and the number of times they bend and the positions they have to assume then it's quite athletic. Not to mention the coupling of focus combined with physical control over one's movements. The very fact that the slightest twitch is the difference between a make and a miss is a prime example of how much athletic ability is needed.

A pool player faces not only the task of sending a ball to a target but also the task of sending it away from the target to a favorable location, over and over and over in a single game. In just about every other sport the task is much simpler than in pool in my opinion. It's just that in pool it LOOKS much easier because of the constrained space, the skill of good players, and the fact that EVERYONE thinks that they can play pool because they don't know what pool is really like at the higher levels.

But is pool actually harder than other sports?

I say no. And the reason is because I don't feel that anything is intrinsically harder to master than anything else IF a person is interested and motivated enough. There was an experiment done in India where kids were given a computer with ZERO instructions on how to use it. The computer was in english. The kids spoke no english. They taught themselves how to use the computer completely by themselves and learned english in the process. Then in a followup experiment the kids were given a difficult microbiology problem to solve with ZERO grounding in science whatsoever and in six months they didn't solve the problem but they all had a great working knowledge of microbiology.

Desire + Opportunity is what makes experts in any field or sport. Out of the experts what makes the best of the best? More desire maybe. More heart? More drive.

If you have a bad back like me you are keenly aware how much physical ability is required to play pool.

Lastly, there are some very athletic fat people out there. I used to be a professional high diver. One of my signature dives on the board was called a spotter. Very few divers do them because they are dangerous. I did mine in shows on a 9ft high springboard in an 18ft wide pool with the board very near a ten foot ledge. Hit the board wrong and you are flying at the ground from 18ft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUzxfwVFHUg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxYKJYj9vcM

The company I worked for was called Maxwells. Dean Maxwell was the founder's son. He weighed north of 250 maybe 300lbs. He did the spotters as well. Gracefully.

This was pretty much what I did in the show - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOhYYe9_55g And the fire dive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOhYYe9_55g

 

[JB Cases]

You know, sometimes I feel like this is NOT really a pool forum, comprised of 'hard core' pool enthusiast's !..There are a few, such as yourself and Chi-RJ, that make me feel like I may have wandered off into a chess forum or something ???
May I ask, when you feel like making me wrong in my belief's, does that mean you also think Jay Helfert, The Beard, CJ, Incardona, Buddy Hall, and all the other guys saying the same thing, are full of crap ?..

As for John B.,** he is a proponent of 'aiming systems', and practicing until your arms fall off..(so he doesn't count ! )..Trust me, John knows better, he just prefers arguing, to admitting ANYONE else may be right....About ANYTHING !

I bet you $1000 that I can find more posts where I admit I am wrong than posts where you admit you are wrong.

In fact I will bet you my $1000 to your $200 that I can find more UNEDITED posts where I admit I am wrong than you have doing the same.

Care to gamble on your words? Or would you just like to save the money and go ahead and admit you're wrong for the first time EVER on this forum?

 

[one stroke]

You know, sometimes I feel like this is NOT really a pool forum, comprised of 'hard core' pool enthusiast's !..There are a few, such as yourself and Chi-RJ, that make me feel like I may have wandered off into a chess forum or something ???

May I ask, when you feel like making me wrong in my belief's, does that mean you also think Jay Helfert, The Beard, CJ, Incardona, Buddy Hall, and all the other guys saying the same thing, are full of crap ?..As for John B.,** he is a proponent of 'aiming systems', and practicing until your arms fall off..(so he doesn't count ! )..Trust me, John knows better, he just prefers arguing, to admitting ANYONE else may be right....About ANYTHING !

Most of the people arguing the pool side are biased in there opinion
so what answer do you think you will get
Winning a race to 9 or 11 would be the same as 18 holes IMHO
Pro players enter regionals tourneys and get beat all the time its simply not that uncommon ,, if fact I have beat a lower level pro myself who was the UPA rookie of the yr

Pool players like the ones you mention who compare themselves to a pro golfer is simply delusional ,,how many Pro pool players get instructions on a routine basis from the time they are a adolescent thru there playing carer
Virtually every pro golfer has a coach some even have a sports shrink on top if that
Tiger woods was a hack just a couple yrs back till finally getting a coach that could straighten out some of his swing flaws

It has nothing to do with being a enthusiast and every thing to do with being a realist
I still play at home some pro ams and SBX every yr in fact I'm trying to hook up with Scott Lee next month for my first lesson at 53 so don't think I don't luv the game because I don't agree with you or others because that's far from the truth

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[SJDinPHX]

Do you ever get tired of arguing with EVERYBODY?

Actually, I am trying to catch John Barton and CJ...I am about 15,000 posts behind, because I keep getting interrupted by certain people I am not even talking to !...(if the shoe fits........)

 

[CJ Wiley]

I don't necessarily believe in predestination, however, I do believe we were all ....

It's proven that the happiest people only need the necessities in life, and aspiring artists, musicians, and athletes are no exception. I've been told many times that the greatest Filipino players are ALWAYS the ones that had to work the hardest because they were from modest backgrounds......Bustemante and Reyes are prime examples.

The "difference that made the difference" with me was the stage (17-21) of my life that I was willing to do ANYTHING to be the best.....this meant pool was my #1 priority every day and I ate, drank, and lived the game....during these years I believe my pool training was {one of} the most strenuous in the world. Being number one in the world was my goal, also knowing when I achieved it life would draw me into another field of endeavors.

I don't necessarily believe in predestination, however, I do believe we were all "wired" to be great at something, it's just a matter of matching that desire with the activity, destiny, or profession.

The Game is the Teacher

If that was even remotely true, pool players would change careers in a heartbeat... the 100th best golfer on the planet is living the life of Riley, the 100th best pool player might not know where his next meal is coming from.

You need NO physical athleticism to play pool.... with other sports that is half the battle..... thus why SVB could NEVER play NFL QB like Manning, and Manning might not ever play pool like SVB, but he would get a lot closer

and after a few years of training, I'm pretty sure a dedicated athlete like Manning would NOT embarrass himself in a tournament,,, prolly not gonna get in the money, but embarrassed, hardly. SVB might not even survive training camp No offense to SVB, I'm not thinking I would either !!!

 

[easy-e]

Actually, I am trying to catch John Barton and CJ...I am about 15,000 posts behind, because I keep getting interrupted by certain people I am not even talking to !...(if the shoe fits........)

I'm just baffled you are spending your final days on a Internet forum.

 

[one stroke]

It's proven that the happiest people only need the necessities in life, and aspiring artists, musicians, and athletes are no exception. I've been told many times that the greatest Filipino players are ALWAYS the ones that had to work the hardest because they were from modest backgrounds......Bustemante and Reyes are prime examples.

The "difference that made the difference" with me was the stage (17-21) of my life that I was willing to do ANYTHING to be the best.....this meant pool was my #1 priority every day and I ate, drank, and lived the game....during these years I believe my pool training was {one of} the most strenuous in the world. Being number one in the world was my goal, also knowing when I achieved it life would draw me into another field of endeavors.

I don't necessarily believe in predestination, however, I do believe we were all "wired" to be great at something, it's just a matter of matching that desire with the activity, destiny, or profession.

The Game is the Teacher

How did you handle not reaching your goal


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