Instructors please chime in.

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
Just curious, how many instructors here teach and use the technique of Nocular/ Binocular vision / Stereoscopic Vision / Range Finder, for aiming and sighting.

I am not asking for your secrets on how you teach it as I have my own style and methods.

I would be interested in how well your students respond and do they pick up on it easily.

Thank you for any replies.
Sincerely: SS
 
Vision

To determine the best way to see the shot you need correct head position. What I was taught and what I teach is not just finding the dominant eye but rather how dominant it is.

I lay a cue in the middle of the table, tip near the foot spot and the butt is straight toward the head spot. I place a piece of chalk on the 2nd diamond of the foot rail with a corner of the chalk pointed toward the cue. I have my student lean over the table so their head is over the cue, then slightly side to side until they think the cue is pointed right at the center of the chalk. The head position relative to the cue is the head position that will help them sight the shot straight and correct.

I've had students of all sorts of head positions. Right handed and the cue is directly under the right eye. Right handed but neither eye is dominant so they have the cue directly under their chin. Right handed but left eye dominant, so the cue is favoring under their left eye. Or any combination of the above.
 
Everybody "sees" with both eyes. We all have binocular vision (unless you only have one eye). Once your line of sight moves past hands reach (about 30") the eyes triangulate. The dominant eye theory only works if you perceive the accurate shot line with the cue under your dominant eye. I've worked with 1000's of students who do NOT see the shot correctly with the cue under their dominant eye. The cue should go under where you see the shot correctly, regardless of your dominant eye. Much more important, imo, is being able to accurately set up and deliver the cue into the straight line that your eyes and brain "see".

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
Everybody "sees" with both eyes. We all have binocular vision (unless you only have one eye). Once your line of sight moves past hands reach (about 30") the eyes triangulate. The dominant eye theory only works if you perceive the accurate shot line with the cue under your dominant eye. I've worked with 1000's of students who do NOT see the shot correctly with the cue under their dominant eye. The cue should go under where you see the shot correctly, regardless of your dominant eye. Much more important, imo, is being able to accurately set up and deliver the cue into the straight line that your eyes and brain "see".

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Agree here with Scott-
Me for example is an extremly example for a *dominant eye*- my right eye is not just lazy- its more like cosmetics :p
But if it s about the position to see the *straight line* it still has a tiny tiny influence. If i would close my right eye *the straight line* wouldn t be at the same position anymore.

A wonderful example for *dominant eye* and where a player sees the straight line is Niels Feijen, too (Niels *lazy* eye has about 5 % or so)- just look where his head is located-and where the cue is. It s amazing.
Another great example is Dick Jaspers.

the position where you see the straight line is of course very important- and it is also usually relatilvley easy to detect if the student has his eyes in a bad position. The harder part is to get him back into the correct position, if he has this *incorrect head position* over a longer time. then the real hard work starts, to reprogram the brain :-)

Nicley written Scott!
 
In a prior thread the complications in eye dominance were discussed (See http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=297099 )

Several scientific studies were referenced and discussed. Probably the most important finding is that eye dominance shifts over distance to the target. The size of the image on the retina is the primary cause for this shift. The amount of shift changes for different distances.

While the player may have a preferred head placement the eyes will accommodate as needed.

I developed a method for determining head placement (relative to the cue stick) as referenced on Dr Dave's resource page but have since come up with a method that is better and allows for the complications discussed here.

Have the player place the cue stick on the long rail over the intersection between the table and the rail cloth. Sight down this line to the side pocket and see where the head is relative to the stick. Now have the player sight the stick to the corner pocket and determine head placement. Interestingly the head placement is not always the same for the two different sightings. The "best" head placement is usually relative to sighting the corner pocket,

In my opinion the player should sight the OB as they bend over (far point eye dominance needs) and look at the cue ball after they have bent all the way over.

Other studies have shown that eye dominance often (not always) shifts as one moves across the lateral field (from right to left and from left to right). For this reason the player should not sight a shot until they are behind the cue ball and take a step back. However, because eye dominance shifts with image size the player should not stop looking at the OB until they reach the shooting position.

These recommendations are based on studies of how binocular vision works in humans.

Given the vagaries of eye dominance over distance and lateral gaze I am of the opinion that placement of the cue under the chin (along the mid line of the head) is the "best" placement for the player (unless there is some physiological anomaly). We use the mid line for accommodation throughout life and the body naturally makes its adjustments relative to this line. However, there are many reasons for adjusting this reference point based on the body's needs and the physiological limits of each individual eye.

After reviewing the head placement used by several pro players it also appears that one needs to have the front plane of the face at a right angle to the cue stick. That is, no matter what the location of the head relative to the stick, both eyes should have the same 90 degree angle relative to the stick.

Incidentally, Earl Strickland is one of the few players who often (not always) sight length of table shots with one eye and sights close shots with two eyes. Obviously, there are all sorts of ways to sight a cue stick.
 
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In a prior thread the complications in eye dominance were discussed (See http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=297099 )




In my opinion the player should sight the OB as they bend over (far point eye dominance needs) and look at the cue ball after they have bent all the way over.

Other studies have shown that eye dominance often (not always) shifts as one moves across the lateral field (from right to left and from left to right). For this reason the player should not sight a shot until they are behind the cue ball and take a step back. However, because eye dominance shifts with image size the player should not stop looking at the OB until they reach the shooting position.
These recommendations are based on studies of how binocular vision works in humans.


.

i am very left eye dominant
as i mentioned in another thread ive been resolving my issues with unintentional left hand spin due i think in part to prior bad habits from poor stance/alignment issues and from vision center issues
i tried the keep the eyse on the ob while going down and it seemed to help
ive improved my psr where i usually will "step into the shot" from behind
thanks for your post
 
The head is most often rotated (for a right-handed player, the left eye is closer to the object ball) so that complicates vision further. The "vision center" (where both eyes can lock in the line and a straight shot appears straight) goes above the shot/aim line.
 
Thanks

Thank you for the replies, all good info that I fully understand.

Please don't take this as an insult.
My original post is what I was looking for feedback on.

I teach these techniques for the eyes. I have some students pick it right up and they love it, a few others struggle. I am curious if others teach it and how their students pick it up, maybe a rough estimate before they use it as second nature.
I will paste the original question here. Thank you for all replies that have been mentioned and for any future input. Thanks again


Just curious, how many instructors here teach and use the technique of Nocular/ Binocular vision / Stereoscopic Vision / Range Finder, for aiming and sighting.

I am not asking for your secrets on how you teach it as I have my own style and methods.

I would be interested in how well your students respond and do they pick up on it easily.

Thank you for any replies.
Sincerely: SS
 
I certainly do...and my students pick it up right away. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thank you for the replies, all good info that I fully understand.

Please don't take this as an insult.
My original post is what I was looking for feedback on.

I teach these techniques for the eyes. I have some students pick it right up and they love it, a few others struggle. I am curious if others teach it and how their students pick it up, maybe a rough estimate before they use it as second nature.
I will paste the original question here. Thank you for all replies that have been mentioned and for any future input. Thanks again


Just curious, how many instructors here teach and use the technique of Nocular/ Binocular vision / Stereoscopic Vision / Range Finder, for aiming and sighting.

I am not asking for your secrets on how you teach it as I have my own style and methods.

I would be interested in how well your students respond and do they pick up on it easily.

Thank you for any replies.
Sincerely: SS
 
... Just curious, how many instructors here teach and use the technique of Nocular/ Binocular vision / Stereoscopic Vision / Range Finder, for aiming and sighting. ...
"Nocular" appears not to be a word. What do you mean by it? Can you explain a little more about your method so we can try to figure out how to answer your question better?
 
This requires a move to "clear your hips" out of the way

Just curious, how many instructors here teach and use the technique of Nocular/ Binocular vision / Stereoscopic Vision / Range Finder, for aiming and sighting.

I am not asking for your secrets on how you teach it as I have my own style and methods.

I would be interested in how well your students respond and do they pick up on it easily.

Thank you for any replies.
Sincerely: SS

The key to finding your visual center is to learn to look at the shot just as you would look at anything naturally. The issue is how to get down on the shot keeping your head square to the target. This requires a move to "clear your hips" out of the way to enable a feeling a "shooting out of your center (chest)".......you will see all the top players make this move, but it is not commonly taught because it does take effort and training to master. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Here goes

My eye doctor refers to it as Nocular, short for Binocular.
I probably should have just used Binocular. I assumed most would understand it.

Some birds of prey can spot a small fish at 2000 ft and better. They dive bomb at speeds up to 200 mph and hit a moving target.

Good Eyes? Good eyes and having the ability to use the tools their brain and eyes offer?

Humans do not possess the visual cells/photoreceptors that birds do, we have the tools to sharpen our eyesight to pin point accuracy, to see a granule of sand, salt, sugar, pepper on a plate or table from a good distance and lock in on it.
It's not difficult to train your eyes to go from normal view to pin point laser view.
Many people use these types of eye patterns and are unaware they are doing so.

I understand a pool ball does not have a grain of sand on it.
 
I like this

The key to finding your visual center is to learn to look at the shot just as you would look at anything naturally. The issue is how to get down on the shot keeping your head square to the target. This requires a move to "clear your hips" out of the way to enable a feeling a "shooting out of your center (chest)".......you will see all the top players make this move, but it is not commonly taught because it does take effort and training to master. 'The Game is the Teacher'

I agree with center. I like to go with the center of the body.
(Squaring up) Starting from the belly button, to the chin, to the bridge of the nose, which leads to the eyes? Which also leads to these eyesight systems I am referring to? It takes about 0 seconds with no thought once you know how to do it.
I have it down to a science and it works very well. Once the student understands it and knows how to use it their game changes.
This may not make sense but, their stroke straightens out, pocket balls much cleaner, hit the cue ball much cleaner, focus is stronger, rhythm is smoother.....etc

I guess it is everyone to their own thing.
There are many different theories and methods, I respect them all, an open mind is the only way to learn and better ones self.
 
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No, but humans can routinely focus on an invisibile spot 3mm (1/8") across, on the CB or OB, and accurately strike it with the cuetip. As CJ pointed out, finding your 'visual center' is the key, and like you said, most of us have to be "taught" how to do this (pro players do this unconsciously for the most part). Whether or not you have to "move your hips out of the way" depends on how you're built, and how you stand over the shot. The Quiet Eye Study gave us a lot information about how to go about it, and we refined it much more, with discussions with neuroligists, opthamologists and kineseologists. BTW, our pool school has been teaching this to students for many many years, although it is not commonly found in most instructional materials, either in print or video form.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I understand a pool ball does not have a grain of sand on it.
 
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No, but humans can routinely focus on an invisibile spot 3mm (1/8") across, on the CB or OB, and accurately strike it with the cuetip. As CJ pointed out, finding your 'visual center' is the key, and like you said, most of us have to be "taught" how to do this (pro players do this unconsciously for the most part). Whether or not you have to "move your hips out of the way" depends on how you're built, and how you stand over the shot. The Quiet Eye Study gave us a lot information about how to go about it, and we refined it much more, with discussions with neuroligists, opthamologists and kineseologists. BTW, our pool school has been teaching this to students for many many years, although it is not commonly found in most instructional materials, either in print or video form.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thank you Scott, good to know you gentlemen go that deep into the eyes.
Firm believer in soft eyes.
 
To construct (visualize) the contact point is a learned phenomena. It begins with learning to see a line through the object ball to the center of the pocket, Then the student learns to construct a line from the front dead center of the cue ball to the contact point and subsequently learns to offset the cue ball so the cue ball will strike the contact point as needed. Some people have the ability to visualize lines better than others though it can be a learned process,

Other methods involve using the edges of the object ball for sighting. I thought that RandyG (and perhaps others in the SPF school of thought) used the latter method. Perhaps they have changed over the year as it has been some time since I studied with RandyG
 
To construct (visualize) the contact point is a learned phenomena. It begins with learning to see a line through the object ball to the center of the pocket, Then the student learns to construct a line from the front dead center of the cue ball to the contact point and subsequently learns to offset the cue ball so the cue ball will strike the contact point as needed. Some people have the ability to visualize lines better than others though it can be a learned process,

Other methods involve using the edges of the object ball for sighting. I thought that RandyG (and perhaps others in the SPF school of thought) used the latter method. Perhaps they have changed over the year as it has been some time since I studied with RandyG

Thanks for your reply Joe
 
JoeW...Nope, we haven't changed. The CTE aiming concept is based on the fact that a majority of shots, banks and kicks will be a half-ball aim. Then, you have to adjust your aim accordingly for thinner or fatter hits, along with changing speed and spin (and potentially accounting for squirt} to fit the situation. CTE is just one way to aim...but it's one that we believe is quite powerful and accurate for many players...and FTR, CTE has little to do with how the eyes work best with the brain. Quiet eyes has everything to do with how the eyes work best with the brain. No aiming method will overcome an inaccurate and nonrepeatable stroke...regardless of how well your eyes work (to be completely accurate, I should say it won't work without HAMB...and maybe not even then).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Other methods involve using the edges of the object ball for sighting. I thought that RandyG (and perhaps others in the SPF school of thought) used the latter method. Perhaps they have changed over the year as it has been some time since I studied with RandyG
 
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