Sorry we haven't been able to locate Jesus, something about helping someone yelling at the ceiling in another thread on AZB but we found the next best thing, will Ronnie suffice?
Gareth Potts vs SVB.. who wins?
- Thread starter j_zippel
- Start date
Sorry we haven't been able to locate Jesus, something about helping someone yelling at the ceiling in another thread on AZB but we found the next best thing, will Ronnie suffice?
TheThaiger
Banned
Jesus breaks better. Bread, that is.
TheThaiger
Banned
SVB has NO CHANCE of beating Potts at C8B. He has NO CHANCE of beating Potts on any other table than one with buckets for pockets. You do not appear to understand the skill it takes to play on E8B, C8B or snooker tables. Try it sometime.
Did you not see the 2013 C8B final? Do you seriously think SVB can live with that? SVB finished 9th - I presume that was one match, one defeat. SVB has ONE weapon - the break - and Potts has that sussed already.
TheThaiger
Banned
Whilst his break is impressive, and it is a skill in its own right, is it a good thing the American game is so dependent on one aspect? Obviously not SVBs problem, but the break is disproportionately important IMO.
The logical conclusion is for either a) the game becoming a breaking contest, which risks a decrease in the standard of play overall, or b) pockets become much smaller to nullify its importance (hence C8B).
They could just play one pocket, where a power break isn't important.
But back to that golf analogy again. It's like saying golf is stupid nowadays because these long courses put too much emphasis on long and accurate driving, when putting is the only skill that's worth talking about. Just like Potts brings a superior shot-making accuracy to the table, Shane brings a finely-honed power break to the table. Both guys rely on this to separate themselves from the pack.
Potts played a very impressive match against Melling in the C8B finals. Not to take anything away from. I think he made maybe only 2 or 3 mistakes in that match. But luckily for him he was playing a game where a 9 mph stop-shot break was enough to make a ball 100% of the time in the side pocket. If you can engineer a game like that on an A8B table, he just might have a fighting chance against Shane.
TheThaiger
Banned
On which table? SVB has no chance from the off on a tight table, and Potts will learn to win very quickly on a bucket table.
1p will become Potts' strongest game very quickly if he choose to play it. E8B contains a level of strategic play that must be seen to be believed. You simply will not beat a good strategist, even if you are the stronger player generally. It is death by a thousand cuts.
Appleton has become an excellent 1p player, absolutely no reason why Potts can't, too.
TheThaiger
Banned
No reason to think a power break is a must at A8B. I don't see why a soft break can't be equally as effective, IF the player is good enough to run out every time he makes a ball. Players adapt their game to overcome new challenges, there's nothing more certain someone will figure out a way to out-break SVB sooner or later.
But that doesn't alter the fact the American game is predicated on the break, which is a travesty IMO. There are plenty of games/sports that have evolved to eliminate undesirable aspects of play, pool included. Big break/easy run-out is boring, and will kill the game if it is allowed to.
And I dislike the golf analogy. It doesn't quite work.
Garbage game played on garbage cloth
I just don't get it anymore. If people can seriously watch Potts play and then compare any American cueist favorably against him -- maybe all hope is lost.
well if you think Pott's can be as good as appleton in 1 Pocket then how does he fair against Shane when he does? I'd make a significant wager on Shane if they played tomorrow, a month from now or a year from now.. it doesn't matter
Well, I like the golf analogy, so I'll use it one more time. Golf, imo, has successfully created a game that put a lot weighting on power AND finesse. This adds to the beauty of the game imo. You can't be good only only one of the aspects to excel at the professional level.
Now you can argue that A8B puts TOO much emphasis on power, and that's actually a discussion we can have. But the reality is that in today's current game of A8B (which was what the original question in the thread was about), Potts would take years to get to even a competitive level against SVB. Shane grew up playing and learning the game in an environment that rewarded the ability to control a powerful shot. He then dedicated thousands of hours breaking and racking, breaking and racking, breaking and racking, to achieve what he has. So to find some hybrid game that eliminates this strength of his as a yardstick to measure skill is unfair.
I'd agree with this
TheThaiger
Banned
Lol.
Unfair? Boo hoo! What's 'fair' about putting in thousands of hours to actually learn how to play the bloody game, only to lose to someone who is a one-trick pony?
All games evolve - even golf.
By "fair" I think my meaning is obvious. If you are trying to find a format to see who is a "better player", you can't take a game that neutralizes the strongest skill of only one player and still think you will gain any meaningful information from the matchup. And if someone has practiced "thousands of hours" to learn the game, only to lose to a "one-trick" pony in a match of any meaningful length, then maybe they were practicing the wrong things.
The fact is both SVB and Potts learned to perfect different skills because they learned different games, on different tables, with different rules. If SVB was born in England, and started out playing E8B, I'm sure his game would have adapted to those conditions. And vice-versa for Potts.
I DO think Shane would have a harder time switching over than Potts, but that's not what we're arguing about here.
There is no way one can intelligently compare the level of strategic thinking involved in 1P vs. any eight ball game... I think this is the point at which this thread has jumped the proverbial shark.
So when Shane (with the best break in the world even better than Jesus) breaks a ball or two are you saying he doesn't play 8/9 shots afterwards?
Wow...
Further to that, if it is the case that SVB's only differentiating skill is his break, that goes a long way to explain why he is not a world beater and whoever coached/mentored him wants a slap around the head for concentrating on such a narrow part of his game.
Given what has been said being true of course..
Given what has been said being true of course..
Of course that's not what I'm saying. If Shane's break is better than another player (which is pretty much always the case), he might still get to the finish line even if his opponent is a better potter/cueist than him. Obviously his break would have to be good enough to overcome any shortcomings in potting ability. In the world of A8B, 10B and even 9B if anti-softbreak rules are put in force, Shane is a favorite against a lot of players I would consider better pure potters than him.
An example is Darren Appleton. I think Darren is a better cueist, has better fundamentals and is a slightly more accurate shotmaker than Shane. But these strengths of Darren's are not enough to overcome Shane's break.
But I think calling Shane a 1-trick pony ignores the fact that he excels at 1p against seasoned veterans, despite that game removing the power break entirely. If you've never played a significant amount of one-pocket you wouldn't appreciate just how hard it is to run 8-and-out consistently. It requires immaculate cue-ball control, and some days Shane makes it look extremely easy.
And he excels at bank pool as well, where the break is not as important. Plus he is a 200+ ball runner at straight pool on 4-inch pockets, despite hardly ever playing the game.
While I agree that some fans of SVB are blinded by their lack of exposure to the pool world outside the US, I think some of the E8B and snooker players have an irrational hate for him.
I think you are raving mad. I certainly don't and I can see no evidence of anyone else doing so either.
Utter crap frankly.
Just the other day I was defending him in the other troll thread about SVB vs O'Sullivan..