Did The JB vs Lou Match Settle The Great Aiming Debate Once & For All?

I don't know why people get so angry at aiming systems lol I've played with them... They work. Hell center to edge I can do my pivot close my eyes and still pocket the ball. It was just to much moving around for me. they work but no one says you will never miss again just because you have an aiming system. If that's all there was to playing run out pool I would have bored of this game a long time a go.


I don't believe anyone is angry at aiming systems. But dare to simply say you don't believe, it does't make sense, and/or cannot be proven geometrically and the CTE morality police are beating you senseless with rubber hoses :-)

Lou Figueroa
while pivoting
 
Absolutely NOT.

I thought pool was about pocketing balls and winning matches?

Who cares how it happens as long as someone isn't cheating.


It's definitely not worth $10k plus the hundreds of extra hours of practice and hours away from young children.

Dumb match for even dumber reasons.


So don't do it. But don't rain on anyone else's parade who sees it differently. Anywhos, I'm told we had over 700 viewers at one point the first night. Maybe some found it dumb but from the majority of the comments here a lot more seemed to find it interesting or even an intriguing match.

Lou Figueroa
maybe I need to
take a screen shot
of my rep page :-)
 
I don't believe anyone is angry at aiming systems. But dare to simply say you don't believe, it does't make sense, and/or cannot be proven geometrically and the CTE morality police are beating you senseless with rubber hoses :-)

Lou Figueroa
while pivoting

^^ This^^ is why the match happened. Certain people cannot disagree without the first words being BET SOMETHING...

Well someone took them up on it.

JV
 
As has been said, the Lou-vs-John match proved nothing as far as CTE aiming goes. It didn't prove that CTE works, and it didn't prove that it doesn't. There may never be a match that will prove, or disprove, CTE because it's not the kind of thing that can be easily done.

The 10K match was interesting; but from an entertainment standpoint, only. In my opinion, what would make a better match for comparison's sake would be a 14.1 match between Lou and Stan. Both men are very experienced in 14.1, and 14.1 is a game where there is a greater number of cut shots, which would give a little clearer picture of the aiming consistency achieved by each man.

Would there be any interest from Lou and Stan in putting a match like that together?

Roger


hmmmm... (wait for it) no.

Lou Figueroa
 
Aiming systems are a joke. If anything, it helps with the underlying cause of losing mental focus. Having a PSR and a system makes you focus every single shot, instead of the get down grip & rip style.


Alrighty.

Lou Figueroa
and AWAY
we go
 
If you want to be part of a rematch with me getting a two game spot then I will glad to entertain that when I am ready to discuss a rematch with Lou.

Thanks for your analysis.

Happy to have given you something to talk about and I hope that the rematch - if there is one - provides you with even more to analyze and talk about.


Rematch?

Lou Figueroa
did someone say
"rematch"
 
It is fair as long as he also makes note that he has absolutely zero knowledge of the system and has spent zero time at the table trying it. People in Europe thought the world was flat until Christopher Columbus proved them wrong.

If Lou or anyone else get's passed on the highway by 20 members of the Hell's Angels and he think to himself "What a bunch of low life douche bags those are", do you think he pulls over when he sees them stopped at a gas station and expresses that opinion to them?

There's a huge difference between expressing your opinion and continuously dogging someone (or something, such as an aiming system). If Lou is so adamant about CTE/Pro One not working, he should be willing to post $10,000 of his own money in a match against Stevie Moore, Landon or Stan Shuffett. That point proves this match wasn't about aiming systems, it was about a personal grudge between Lou and John. Lou agreed because he knew he had the better of it in the gamble, not because he believed CTE/Pro One had no merit whatsoever.


CTE, nor any other aiming system, had *zero* to do on my end with my willingness to play John.

Lou Figueroa
 
That's true Nostroke, cant argue that. I was just looking at the numbers to make a point. Anything to take Lou out of his comfort zone could have changed the outcome.


lol. Trust me. A $10K bet, on a foreign table, 4.5" straight cut pockets with a deep shelf, playing in front of hard core pool aficionados in person and online, with three cameras going, and Pat Fleming watching was plenty enough to "take Lou out of his comfort zone."

Lou Figueroa
 
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^^ This^^ is why the match happened. Certain people cannot disagree without the first words being BET SOMETHING...

Well someone took them up on it.

JV

100% wrong. I have disagreed with many people without offering to bet something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
100% wrong. I have disagreed with many people without offering to bet something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

I have to call you on this. How many times have you said that you are from an old school pool atmosphere that where when you want to see who is right or wrong, you offer up a bet? Come to PDX, I could use some money. You offered to play $500 sets before, including my favorite games of banks and barbox 8. Let me know when, I'll take the day off. You ought to quit while you're not so far behind.
 
Nob:

A couple things:

It is fair as long as he also makes note that he has absolutely zero knowledge of the system and has spent zero time at the table trying it. People in Europe thought the world was flat until Christopher Columbus proved them wrong.

This is a flawed stance. First -- and this may sound stark raving mad coming from a person of science as I consider myself to be -- did people benefit from the knowledge that the world was round, once it was proved that it was? No. What it did do, was to discover a new country in the process.

So it was the *exploration* that was the benefit; not learning the fact that the world is round. Centuries later, the fact that the world is round benefits worldwide commerce, trading of knowledge and cultures, etc.

In many ways, this whole question of "to be, or not to be" concerning aiming systems hinges upon the willingness of someone to explore.

If Lou or anyone else get's passed on the highway by 20 members of the Hell's Angels and he think to himself "What a bunch of low life douche bags those are", do you think he pulls over when he sees them stopped at a gas station and expresses that opinion to them?

Straw Man. (Or "Aunt Sally" as they say in the UK.)

First, what do the acceptance (or lack) of aiming systems have to do with a motorcycle club? Do you really want to equate yourself -- and all of your aiming system colleagues -- with a motorcycle club notorious for crime and violence? That *is* what you're doing here, and just perpetuates the "thug" mentality on these boards.

Second, nobody in their right mind would do what you mentioned. You can visually see that motorcycle rider and size him up. Compare that with Internet forums -- which are essentially an online newspaper/blog/interaction center, where everything is the text you see on the screen -- nothing more. There is no physical presence involved as is the case when you see that Hell's Angel rumble past you. So this is flawed from the get-go.

People using this "but would you say such things to a person's face" thing related to forums and other forms of Internet chat is flawed. For example, I'm quite sure some of the movie critics who write reviews online would not say the exact things they do in print, as they would if they meet those actors/directors face-to-face.

There's a huge difference between expressing your opinion and continuously dogging someone (or something, such as an aiming system). If Lou is so adamant about CTE/Pro One not working, he should be willing to post $10,000 of his own money in a match against Stevie Moore, Landon or Stan Shuffett. That point proves this match wasn't about aiming systems, it was about a personal grudge between Lou and John. Lou agreed because he knew he had the better of it in the gamble, not because he believed CTE/Pro One had no merit whatsoever.

Another Straw Man. You're foisting up great players from the get-go, instead of meeting Lou on the table with someone that has equivalent experience / abilities that subsequently studied aiming systems. It's like saying you want Lou to bring a knife to a gun fight. Or, after two guys dueled it out with pistols, you want the guy that just won and still standing with his smoking pistol, to go ahead and challenge the guy standing nearby with a loaded Minigun (Gatling gun).

Not a good way to bolster your argument.

What I don't get is all this "forced conversion" going on with the aiming system advocates. If someone wants to express his/her opinion that the systems don't work, and they just plain aren't interested in exploring them, that opinion should stand on its own. "Stand on its own" to mean the reader makes the determination of whether to heed that opinion or not.

You know what? You'd think that the naysayers would've done a lot of damage to the interest in aiming systems, right? Look around -- it did the exact opposite. I know when I see a Lou or Patrick Johnson or anyone else lambaste something with merely a "standing on its own" opinion (and no proof), I'm all the more interested in knowing what something is all about. And although I'm not dissatisfied with how I play, being the consummate cue sports student that I consider myself to be, I'm exploring what they're about for my own edification.

That's the exploration that I talked about above. The benefits from knowing that the earth is round will come later -- right now, let's find us some new countries in the process.

-Sean
 
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10-9-8-7............
I've never been to the aiming forum......but I just might follow this thread.


Do they have a free buffet there?




How about a lousy coffee?:angry:
 
Bingo.

Lou Figueroa

Not right. At all. You recall it was your side doing the high rolling. I was happy to play 100 a game and guarantee 500. You came over the top with a 20k woof. I countered for ten and you called me a coward.

I will start putting money away now for a 30k rematch if your backer wants to go again.

Nothing against you but Joe is wrong and I am in no way intimidated. I played like a donkey and you did out move me few times.

Now that all the baggage is off the table I can focus on the pool. Which I should done in the first place.

I mean let's be honest here. The original bark was in 2010 and if you were so hot to play then we would have played in 2010.

You did good but don't allow this to be painted as anything different than it was.
 
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I have to call you on this. How many times have you said that you are from an old school pool atmosphere that where when you want to see who is right or wrong, you offer up a bet? Come to PDX, I could use some money. You offered to play $500 sets before, including my favorite games of banks and barbox 8. Let me know when, I'll take the day off. You ought to quit while you're not so far behind.

And the amount of people I have disagreed with and not offered to bet is far higher.

You will recall that I said bet offers only come after both sides are entrenched.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
And the amount of people I have disagreed with and not offered to bet is far higher.

You will recall that I said bet offers only come after both sides are entrenched.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Fair enough. Those ones probably stand out quite a bit more due to the nature of the entrenched disagreements. Either way, I may want your money, but I still respect a man willing to pony up, try hard and still stand up for himself, win or lose. I'll still disagree with you, though. :wink: Edit: In the end, I think you had gotten quite a bit carried away and it went too far. Edit edit: Good thing is that it was only money.
 
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Not right. At all. You recall it was your side doing the high rolling. I was happy to play 100 a game and guarantee 500. You came over the top with a 20k woof. I countered for ten and you called me a coward.

I will start putting money away now for a 30k rematch if your backer wants to go again.

Nothing against you but Joe is wrong and I am in no way intimidated. I played like a donkey and you did out move me few times.

Now that all the baggage is off the table I can focus on the pool. Which I should done in the first place.

I mean let's be honest here. The original bark was in 2010 and if you were so hot to play then we would have played in 2010.

You did good but don't allow this to be painted as anything different than it was.


John, with all due respect, if I have learned anything from this experience it is that you:

Make side bets with me and others online and crawfish.

You say you'll "stack it" at the event and crawfish.

So please, don't insult my intelligence with this $30K BS.

Lou Figueroa
 
You guys do know that with all this talk of more matches someone is going to have to give TATE CPR, don't you?

Lou Figueroa
 
I didn't see this match as a system battle at all. No single match could prove anything in that department. The only proof I see here, is that its a bad idea to play a guy at his own game.... especially 1 pocket.

John showed some heart getting back into the match, I give him that. But heart is rarely enough to overcome many years of 1 pocket experience. If your strategy is to hope or assume the other guy will fold, and you're all in......you just made yourself a bad game.

Lou didn't out move/play John. John did himself in.
 
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