anybody else NOT like Chinese 8 Ball?

S

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm new to this having been around all forms of billiards most of my life.

My three big criticisms thus far

1. The Break seems like more a crapshoot than ever, balls just don't drop enough.

2. The game seems to require the players to stay in line more than ever, once out of line it appears too difficult to get the cue ball back to where it needs to be. For some this might indicate a higher skill level required but for me, part of pool excellence includes the skill and creativity required to get back in shape after falling out of line.

3. I've watched too many missed pots indicating to me that the pocket width in relation to the balls is simply too narrow

Now I recognize that my criticisms may in fact be pluses for fans of the game, maybe I'll come around, again, still new to this and pretty much do love anything billiard related so I'll continue with this for a bit

BTW, is there any real difference between a so called Chinese 8 ball table vs a 9ft snooker table vs a 9 ft pool table with snooker cushions?
 
smashmouth said:
I'm new to this having been around all forms of billiards most of my life.

My three big criticisms thus far

1. The Break seems like more a crapshoot than ever, balls just don't drop enough.

2. The game seems to require the players to stay in line more than ever, once out of line it appears too difficult to get the cue ball back to where it needs to be. For some this might indicate a higher skill level required but for me, part of pool excellence includes the skill and creativity required to get back in shape after falling out of line.

3. I've watched too many missed pots indicating to me that the pocket width in relation to the balls is simply too narrow

Now I recognize that my criticisms may in fact be pluses for fans of the game, maybe I'll come around, again, still new to this and pretty much do love anything billiard related so I'll continue with this for a bit

BTW, is there any real difference between a so called Chinese 8 ball table vs a 9ft snooker table vs a 9 ft pool table with snooker cushions?
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Haven't seen enough to comment. Outside of china, it seems to be non-existent so therefore it's meaningless to the rest of the world - apart from the odd time they throw loads of money at a masters type event.
 
I'm not a fan. I've played on the rounded pockets before, and it changed the game up too much.

In English 8-ball, the break is similar. Smash and hope something falls.
 
to an extent but the balls being smaller still drop more often

if the majority of Chinese players are pushing this though, I can totally see it taking off, especially with all the snooker/english 8 ball players crossing over
 
smashmouth said:
to an extent but the balls being smaller still drop more often

if the majority of Chinese players are pushing this though, I can totally see it taking off, especially with all the snooker/english 8 ball players crossing over
Click to expand...

What English 8 ball players have cross over?

I know of only one.
 
How is it any different than English 8 ball except they use a regular set of numbered balls, not the red and yellows? Bigger table?
 
MahnaMahna said:
How is it any different than English 8 ball except they use a regular set of numbered balls, not the red and yellows? Bigger table?
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American size balls, american size table, american cues (often), a lot closer to American rules than E8B rules.. More american than english this game..
 
So, your complaints are mostly "the game is too hard!!!".

All of the reasons why you said you dislike it are exactly why I like it.

There are a huge numbers of people on this forum that always gripe that 8-ball is too easy and I have always said that on the proper equipment it would not be too easy and challenge the best in the world. The Chinese did exactly that and 8-ball IS challenging to the elite players in the world now under those conditions and people now whine that it is too hard.

I think atm as far a "pool" goes Chinese 8-ball is the best game out there. I STILL think that 8-ball played on a 10-foot diamond with 4 1/8th inch pockets cut like the Fatboy Rails would be ideal, and if America went and did that they would create the game that would ultimately become the central game in pool at the pro level, but America is stuck in some very old ways that do not work. Other areas of the world are trying new things to make pool at the pro level more challenging, and it works.
 
MahnaMahna said:
How is it any different than English 8 ball except they use a regular set of numbered balls, not the red and yellows? Bigger table?
Click to expand...

And the rules are completely different? Do you know the rules for English 8-ball?
 
Celtic said:
[...]
I think atm as far a "pool" goes Chinese 8-ball is the best game out there. I STILL think that 8-ball played on a 10-foot diamond with 4 1/8th inch pockets cut like the Fatboy Rails would be ideal, and if America went and did that they would create the game that would ultimately become the central game in pool at the pro level, but America is stuck in some very old ways that do not work. Other areas of the world are trying new things to make pool at the pro level more challenging, and it works.
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You had me on that for a while but now I'm not so sure that there is any version of any American style pool table where 8 Ball would be challenging enough for the pros. They just control the cue ball too well and they end up with a bunch of stop shots or short stun shots. To make this challenging for the top tier of players you would probably need 3.5 inch pockets and who is going to do that to an American style table?

For 8 ball to be challanging enough for the top dogs I think it has to be played on snooker style pockets.
 
BasementDweller said:
You had me on that for a while but now I'm not so sure that there is any version of any American style pool table where 8 Ball would be challenging enough for the pros. They just control the cue ball too well and they end up with a bunch of stop shots or short stun shots. To make this challenging for the top tier of players you would probably need 3.5 inch pockets and who is going to do that to an American style table?

For 8 ball to be challanging enough for the top dogs I think it has to be played on snooker style pockets.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but we have never seen a 10-foot Diamond with pockets cut like that. The Bigfoot event at DCC had 4.5 inch pockets and some of the pros had trouble on that table, while others were able to play pretty phenomenal on it.

The Fatboy rails TAR used were tight, but they played fair. The "TAR" rails they replaced them with were gaffy, but Dennis did manage to never miss in an entire match on those. But the 10-foot table will make the potting of the game more difficult and bring in more cueball movement and more powerful stroke shots on occasion.

I do like Chinese 8-ball, but I think that it will never work in America for a variety of reasons, not the least of which with the snooker cut pockets and the name of the game (which could be changed) it is not "American" enough to be accepted by the fans in the states. It is also too different from league play. making a table bigger with tighter pockets is still similar to the BCAPL league playing on the smaller diamond tables. The jump from league Diamond bar boxes to Chinese 8-ball tables changes the game too much from what the general public and league players are playing.
 
Have you played it? Or pretty much just watched youtube matches?
I'd have to play it to know for sure if I don't like it.
I suspect I wouldn't like the added difficulty.

Pulled up the recent final between Melling and Potts, and I noticed a few things.

- The cloth is so fast that every must be very gentle and have great speed control.
Plus with the rounded pockets, you can't really ram balls home unless
they're coming straight into the mouth of the pocket. So yeah, you better stay in line.

- Saw at least two shots where players reaaaallly had to baby the balls in.
One of them was a very long shot that seemed like it'd be dangerously slow on
a typical american table. You'd need a very clean, level, almost tournament-quality table.

They made the shots, but you can clearly see even with top level players,
the balls wobble and rattle and barely fall in at soft speed.
I'm sure for average guys, these balls would just hang up, especially if you haven't
learned how to trickle them in at pocket speed.

- Since rail cuts don't go, or at least not easily, I noticed melling didn't even try a shot
where his ball ended up frozen to a side rail and some distance from the hole.
Instead, he played a safe knocking one of his balls into that ball, and relocating it.

So basically, it seems like balls on the side rails become problem balls, almost like a cluster
you must break out, or at least fall dead nuts perfect to make the shot.

I'm inclined to say this is not a good thing.
If a ball is not tied up with another ball in american 8 ball, it's generally very makeable
no matter where it happens to be on the table.

Here, you can get penalized for having a ball unluckily land very close to a rail,
even if no other ball interferes. That's going to happen all the time after a smash break
and it seems like it adds some extra luck to the game.
 
8-ball has never been a game that primarily focuses on pocketing skills (if you want that, then play/watch snooker). Rather, 8-ball is a game that is most enjoyable to play/watch if it involves thought, strategy, and tactics, on top of execution. (I still can say that I haven't watched anything more enjoyable than the 8-ball matches of the IPT.)

To fix this for the professionals, changing the table is unnecessary (not to mention expensive). I've advocated this before, but keep the table the same and simply add more balls.
 
one thing I'd really like to see to aid in tv viewing are 2 sets of uniformed colored balls...i.e. 1 set of yellow and 1 set of red
 
Over the years I have played Snooker, E8B, A8B and 9B I make centuries and run racks.
I played some C8B last week for the 1st time, I would post some video but it would be too embarrassing.
There is a reason why Snooker died out with the young players around here, they found it too tough and they prefer the small table with big pockets. The only people you will see playing C8B is the Chinese, it will never become the game of choice here.
Would I take it up? not sure because it's so hard to get a flow going when your stymied by the difficulty of learning the game, you have to change your way of thinking and your CB control is paramount.
 
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