We play lots of different guys in our 8 ball league so the lags are not memorable, but I'm finally picking up on a guy who seems to always wait for you to lag first before lagging himself. It's not exaggerative in that I think he lags before my ball hits the end rail, but it's now bugging the heck out of me. Anyone deal with a guy like this? What can you possibly surmise in that second or two after an opponent lag that would change the way you lag yourself?
Wait for the other guy to lag before you do guy
- Thread starter HomerJay20
- Start date
It's bothering you enough to think about it even when you are not playing pool, which led to you creating this thread.
Seems like it's working to me.
Seems like it's working to me.
If this is all you have to worry about, how is the rest of your game?
If your stroke is alright, it doesn't matter what the other guy does.
Aloha.
If your stroke is alright, it doesn't matter what the other guy does.
Aloha.
I think it does provide a very small edge in allowing you to judge how to hit your lag.
If he comes up way short despite being an ok player, it tells you that for some reason
the table is playing a little slow that day and you better err on the side of hitting firm.
I don't do it because I usually just practice the lag a few times beforehand if possible.
If he comes up way short despite being an ok player, it tells you that for some reason
the table is playing a little slow that day and you better err on the side of hitting firm.
I don't do it because I usually just practice the lag a few times beforehand if possible.
First of all the lag you described isn't legal.......both players must lag their balls at the same time......this isn't a batting card line-up.......you and the other guy strike the ball at the same time.
So the next time, just say "After you..." and don't lag or else pick up his lag ball and hand it back to him and say..."Let's try to get it right and do it again.....at the same time."
Don't let someone break the rules and then complain you don't like the way he does this late lag. If that player inadvertently strikes the cue ball on a practice stroke while preparing to take the shot in your match, do you say "Never mind....just keep on shooting."? You better had not because it's a rules foul and the break is also regulated by the rules when using the lag to determine who has the break.
You can always just stay down in your shooting stance with the other player as if you were going to lag but don't.......Yup, just stay in your stance or stand up, stretch and resume your stance again to shoot...and do that again and again....3-4 times if needed....and then say to the other guy if he hasn't caught on yet....turn and say, "Whenever you're ready, maybe we can complete a legal lag by lagging both balls at the same time otherwise we can just do this all night. If you did that to this guy, I betcha you'd get into his head and mentally, he'd start the match annoyed and really off his game. In his mind, he's thinking what a SOB you were even though he's the cheater......then....and this is key......later in the match, when the time is right, you just mention to him on the way to the table after he missed a shot...."Sorry about how our match started with the lagging issue but I just knew you'd want to abide the rules. That a burr under his saddle and his horse will definitely buck again after you hit him with that mental body shot.
Just like in golf, the rules can be your friend or your adversary.....so why not use the rules correctly which would be to your advantage? Tell others to do this to the fellow. he will get rattled and annoyed and his inside edge, i.e., illegal lag, once it's removed from his repertoire of tricks will annoy him to no end.
Why is it an advantage to lag last......because you get to see when your opponent lags too softly or hard and you can tell the cue ball will come up short or long from the head rail......and then you get to lag a ball to beat your opponent's mistake. When I lag last, I usually win the lag unless my opponent has hit a great lag shot which does happen. But by lagging last, you just know how hard to stroke the cue ball when your opponent hits a bad lag and it happens a lot more than you might otherwise imagine....especially if you play APA on 7' tables. So when you get to lag after your opponent has lagged, then you get to judge his lag speed that's very important since table cloths tend to have varying speeds, and you either gain information or else capitalize on their piss poor lag. when it occurs.
So don't let this guy continue to flaunt and violate the rules from performing an illegal lag to determine the break. If he doesn't like doing a legal lag, then just tell him...."OK, we'll flip a coin to decide." but don't let him keep breaking the rules to his obvious advantage.
Matt B.
So the next time, just say "After you..." and don't lag or else pick up his lag ball and hand it back to him and say..."Let's try to get it right and do it again.....at the same time."
Don't let someone break the rules and then complain you don't like the way he does this late lag. If that player inadvertently strikes the cue ball on a practice stroke while preparing to take the shot in your match, do you say "Never mind....just keep on shooting."? You better had not because it's a rules foul and the break is also regulated by the rules when using the lag to determine who has the break.
You can always just stay down in your shooting stance with the other player as if you were going to lag but don't.......Yup, just stay in your stance or stand up, stretch and resume your stance again to shoot...and do that again and again....3-4 times if needed....and then say to the other guy if he hasn't caught on yet....turn and say, "Whenever you're ready, maybe we can complete a legal lag by lagging both balls at the same time otherwise we can just do this all night. If you did that to this guy, I betcha you'd get into his head and mentally, he'd start the match annoyed and really off his game. In his mind, he's thinking what a SOB you were even though he's the cheater......then....and this is key......later in the match, when the time is right, you just mention to him on the way to the table after he missed a shot...."Sorry about how our match started with the lagging issue but I just knew you'd want to abide the rules. That a burr under his saddle and his horse will definitely buck again after you hit him with that mental body shot.
Just like in golf, the rules can be your friend or your adversary.....so why not use the rules correctly which would be to your advantage? Tell others to do this to the fellow. he will get rattled and annoyed and his inside edge, i.e., illegal lag, once it's removed from his repertoire of tricks will annoy him to no end.
Why is it an advantage to lag last......because you get to see when your opponent lags too softly or hard and you can tell the cue ball will come up short or long from the head rail......and then you get to lag a ball to beat your opponent's mistake. When I lag last, I usually win the lag unless my opponent has hit a great lag shot which does happen. But by lagging last, you just know how hard to stroke the cue ball when your opponent hits a bad lag and it happens a lot more than you might otherwise imagine....especially if you play APA on 7' tables. So when you get to lag after your opponent has lagged, then you get to judge his lag speed that's very important since table cloths tend to have varying speeds, and you either gain information or else capitalize on their piss poor lag. when it occurs.
So don't let this guy continue to flaunt and violate the rules from performing an illegal lag to determine the break. If he doesn't like doing a legal lag, then just tell him...."OK, we'll flip a coin to decide." but don't let him keep breaking the rules to his obvious advantage.
Matt B.
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I almost always lag in my lagging.
That's because I go through my whole shot recipe even for a lag....ESPECIALLY for a lag, as it is one of the most important shots in a match! My opponents shoot the lag much too quickly, imho, and their results usually show it.
The only way I could lag at the same moment as my opponent is if I let HIM speed up thus shorten my process. I haven't practiced my recipe for 800,000 or so shots just to let someone else take that all away from me for such a minor reason.
The shooter still has to shoot the lag shot no matter what time he does it.
Jeff Livingston
That's because I go through my whole shot recipe even for a lag....ESPECIALLY for a lag, as it is one of the most important shots in a match! My opponents shoot the lag much too quickly, imho, and their results usually show it.
The only way I could lag at the same moment as my opponent is if I let HIM speed up thus shorten my process. I haven't practiced my recipe for 800,000 or so shots just to let someone else take that all away from me for such a minor reason.
The shooter still has to shoot the lag shot no matter what time he does it.
Jeff Livingston
No I have never dealt with a guy that has a problem with me lagging too far behind him but if I did I would ask him if he would rather just flip a coin. Is this really that big of a deal?
I have a feeling I would rather lag first anyway and not be bothered or distracted by his ball.
Regardless if you let such petty things creep into your thoughts you are the one causing yourself the problem. What do you really care when he lags. Pay attention to your own game.
I couldn't agree more. I go through my routine and frankly don't pay any attention to what the other guy is doing. It's seems like most opponents have struck their ball within 2 seconds of going down on the ball. I don't watch their result either, the vast majority of the time, if I take my time, I'm going to be relatively close anyway.
I like this! Good reply.
May I add it's not a race! I usually tell people to go when they are ready, but for the most part the preshot routines should start roughly at the same time.
I try to put the 'horseblinders" on and just focus on my own lag and trust in my ability. I tend to focus better if I am on the right side of table (I am right handed) that way my back is towards the other player.
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This is not true.
1.2 Lagging to Determine Order of Play
The lag is the first shot of the match and determines order of play. The player who wins the lag chooses who will shoot first. The referee will place a ball on each side of the table behind the head string and near the head string. The players will shoot at ABOUT the same time to make each ball contact the foot cushion with the goal of returning the ball closer to the head cushion than the opponent. A lag shot is bad and cannot win if the shooter’s ball:
The players will lag again if:
(a) a player’s ball is struck after the other ball has touched the foot cushion;
(b) the referee cannot determine which ball has sped closer to the head cushion; or
(c) both lags are bad.
As long as he shoots before the first shooters ball hits the foot rail nothing is wrong with this.
so if I smash it really fast before he can react hitting the foot cushion first I win??
Probably be cited with un-sportsman conduct. You didn't even try to win the lag.
Actually, the rule (WPA) is: "The players will shoot at about the same time ..." This is further defined by the requirement that "The players will lag again if:
(a) a player’s ball is struck after the other ball has touched the foot cushion; ..."
To beat the "will lag again if" portion of the rules, the second player (second to lag) has to strike his ball within about a second, or slightly more, of when the first player strikes his ball. The first ball has not even struck the foot cushion yet. To think that the second player can glean much information in that second, and then adjust his own hit somehow to do better, strikes me as unlikely. I view it as far more productive to just concentrate on one's own lag.
Exactly.
No, you will just have re-lag like the rule states...
This works for me.
I think this is the proper reaction. I need to focus on my own execution regardless of what the other guy does.