I doubt getting beaten , broken ribs, limbs, bruises can be lower match experience than pool experience :grin-square:
So am I totally wrong on this?
- Thread starter ddadams
- Start date
I doubt getting beaten , broken ribs, limbs, bruises can be lower match experience than pool experience :grin-square:
I see you're in Indy - Jeanette studied with Jerry Briesath, who is considered the founder of the "fundamentals first" approach to pool, and from what I've seen she has a similar approach. You couldn't go wrong getting some time with her.
next steps...aiming systems? 
Will help you practice more efficiently and hopefully cut your learning curve. GL.
Will help you practice more efficiently and hopefully cut your learning curve. GL.Thanks for the compliment, Danny. I will try my best to help you here. I know where you're at. I've been there myself.
Here's what I would do if I were you: Put your fancy cues and case in the closet. Head to your local pool room with just a small piece of sandpaper. Then grab a house cue off the wall, work the tip a bit if it needs it. Throw out the balls and try to run them all. At first, shoot any ball, then perhaps in time, try 9-Ball.
Play alone and don't think too much. Just relax and enjoy the game.
Find your love for the game again and then you will find your way.
If you were to interview pro players, you would find that many of them didn't have a systematic approach to playing for much of their development. That part often comes after they have reached an advanced level where their progress is in much smaller increments.
In the earlier stages of their development, it all comes from love of playing pool. They love the game so much that they can't wait to get to the table to play. It's not work to them. It's pure fun and they love to figure things out. If they don't have their cue on a particular day, you'd see them just grab a house cue off the wall and hit balls.
I'm not saying that you should just play randomly and you will get better. What you're doing with your game now is good, but it's intense, and you need a break once in awhile from it all. So grab that house cue and just play and allow yourself to love the game again.
Then see how you feel.
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I find the fact that this question comes up so often very interesting. To be honest, I think the idea that playing the game instead of drilling to get better is something that people who don't want to be disciplined enough to drill came up with to justify just playing all the time. There is no sport where this is a successful practice.
I played baseball through college, and I never had a single season where all we did was play scrimmage games and real games to get better. We did drill after drill after drill to improve each area of our game so we could do it correctly when game time came. It was the same for every sport that I ever played, and for good reason.
What will be the fastest way to learn to draw the cue ball exact distances, hitting that shot 50 times in a row every day until it is second nature, or doing it whenever it comes up in a game? You'll have it down in a matter of days or weeks with focused drilling, while just doing it in a game may never get you to a refined ability to reproduce it consistently. What you adoing now is the best way to go. Work the fundamentals first to get a repeatable stroke, then work your way through each aspect of the game, increasing as you improve.
I played baseball through college, and I never had a single season where all we did was play scrimmage games and real games to get better. We did drill after drill after drill to improve each area of our game so we could do it correctly when game time came. It was the same for every sport that I ever played, and for good reason.
What will be the fastest way to learn to draw the cue ball exact distances, hitting that shot 50 times in a row every day until it is second nature, or doing it whenever it comes up in a game? You'll have it down in a matter of days or weeks with focused drilling, while just doing it in a game may never get you to a refined ability to reproduce it consistently. What you adoing now is the best way to go. Work the fundamentals first to get a repeatable stroke, then work your way through each aspect of the game, increasing as you improve.
There is alot of good info here so far but as one said what works for them might not work for you. Ralf Souqet monster pro player does not gamble and he said he never gambles look where it took his game.
I get about 15 hours of practice a week not including playing time and during my practice all i do is play the nineball ghost rack after rack after rack. So far it has been paying off big time.
I get about 15 hours of practice a week not including playing time and during my practice all i do is play the nineball ghost rack after rack after rack. So far it has been paying off big time.
Competing is a skill. Like all skills, you need to practice this one too. Simple as that. All your drills will help you learn shots, gain confidence in pocketing balls and positioning the cue ball. But that isn't all there is to *winning*. Personal composure under pressure, the will to try your best on every shot, etc. These are skills that require practice too.
I recommend that you incorporate some additional drills into your routine: play a match (for fun or money or whatever) at least once per week. Play a tournament as often as you can. See how the mental competition skills are doing.
KMRUNOUT
I recommend that you incorporate some additional drills into your routine: play a match (for fun or money or whatever) at least once per week. Play a tournament as often as you can. See how the mental competition skills are doing.
KMRUNOUT
The only thing playing with other people teaches you is strategy on how to play against people. If you want to actually get better at pocketing balls and controlling the cueball, playing aginst people is the worst way to improve those skills.
I'm sure it's exactly like martial arts. Two completely sets of skills. There's the fundamentals of actual execution, and the skills/experience of competing against others. They are different skills that are learned in different ways. I'm sure it takes a lot longer to learn how to kick properly if you only practice it when you're getting your ass beat. Same as you'll only learn when someones head is going to be open for a good smack when playing with another.
Exact same thing with billiards.
I'm sure it's exactly like martial arts. Two completely sets of skills. There's the fundamentals of actual execution, and the skills/experience of competing against others. They are different skills that are learned in different ways. I'm sure it takes a lot longer to learn how to kick properly if you only practice it when you're getting your ass beat. Same as you'll only learn when someones head is going to be open for a good smack when playing with another.
Exact same thing with billiards.
Yup, that's exactly right. In no sports do coaches say "the only way to learn is just play." They always breaks down fundamentals and work on drills. But for whatever reason people don't see pool skills in the same way.
Personally I think it's the "hustler" rather than "athlete" attitude towards pool.
Banks
Banned
We're back to comparing pool to triathalons again?
I think half of the "hustle" is getting people to buy into a bunch of "products" out there; that if they don't do XYZ, they won't get better, or that they will improve if they do. Not everybody functions the same, nor does everyone see the game the same way.
If it were that easy to be a battlefield tactician, there'd only be a couple of soldiers. If all it took to be a great artist was to practice stroking a brush, we'd all be great artists. So on and so forth..
One thing that I have learned from playing real good players at tournaments is how to get comfortable in my chair. 
I also learned from these same players how important a strong safety game is, a strong safety is a better choice than a risky shot most of the time.
I also learned from these same players how important a strong safety game is, a strong safety is a better choice than a risky shot most of the time.
I'd say golf is a better comparison than triathlon, but I know running and biking and especially swimming are very concerned with the right form and fundamentals.
I agree with you about all the crazy products and systems - most pool instruction that I've seen is all about simplicity, minimizing unnecessary movement, shooting straight, nothing fancy.
You don't think, like the original posters' friends, that people should not work on stroke and fundamentals, do you?
Banks
Banned
I do(believe that should be worked on, somewhat), but I also believe that a lot of that can be incorporated into standard practice-play. Sitting there and doing a draw stroke on the same exact shot would be boring as all hell to me. I'd rather shoot racks for a couple of hours while focusing on drawing for whatever I could. That will bring up distances, speeds, etc.
As long as people are focusing on what's happening, they should be able to get something out of it. Some people will prefer to sit and hit the same shot a hundred times, others, like myself, would rather impale themselves on their cues first. To me, that's torture and not a scenario that's likely to teach me much. As Fran said, doing something that keeps you interested and involved will be much more productive. In short, dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks.
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I know of no sport where the highest level players achieved that level by simply playing and watching high level players. I'm not sure you can take old school professional pool players as a good example for how to improve your game the quickest. The availability of quality instructors, books/dvds and training aids wasn't available 20 years ago add it is today. Why learn everything in your own or the hard way when you have so many great sources that you can steal information from at an accelerated pace?
You practice to improve your skills. You compete to have fun, measure where you rank and to learn how to compete. Obviously, you need a balance of both since ultimately, your goal is to compete at a high level. I don't think any of the guys at the pool room you're at play at a very high level.
You are within a 5 hour drive of Jerry Brieseth, Mark Wilson, Chris Bartram and Stan Shuffett. Obviously, all those guys know a little bit about competing at a high level. Troy and Amanda Jones are 40 minutes away in Muncie. The Black Widow and George Breedlove are 30 minutes away in Martinsville. Go spend a little money with those folks and get some factual recommendations from true high level players.
You practice to improve your skills. You compete to have fun, measure where you rank and to learn how to compete. Obviously, you need a balance of both since ultimately, your goal is to compete at a high level. I don't think any of the guys at the pool room you're at play at a very high level.
You are within a 5 hour drive of Jerry Brieseth, Mark Wilson, Chris Bartram and Stan Shuffett. Obviously, all those guys know a little bit about competing at a high level. Troy and Amanda Jones are 40 minutes away in Muncie. The Black Widow and George Breedlove are 30 minutes away in Martinsville. Go spend a little money with those folks and get some factual recommendations from true high level players.
You and The " frustrated at pool" thread have lots in common.
Discounting anonymous advice?
I'm surprised to read this from you. I've been on this forum for several years and occasionally give out advice to people who ask for it. I feel it's a service to help out people when they're struggling with their game. Several have thanked me for speaking up. Only a handful of AZ'ers know me, so I'm mostly anonymous (and like it that way).
After reading your thoughts in bold above, I'm thinking I should just clam up. That's fine by me. I've got plenty of other things I could be doing.
I'm surprised to read this from you. I've been on this forum for several years and occasionally give out advice to people who ask for it. I feel it's a service to help out people when they're struggling with their game. Several have thanked me for speaking up. Only a handful of AZ'ers know me, so I'm mostly anonymous (and like it that way).
After reading your thoughts in bold above, I'm thinking I should just clam up. That's fine by me. I've got plenty of other things I could be doing.
Would you trust the word of someone that you have no idea who they are, what they know or how they play? No. I don't think so.
You've chosen to be anonymous. You shouldn't expect to be treated as if your anonymous persona is a real identity. It's not. It's a fake.
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I wouldn't trust the word of someone who constantly seems to be having a bad hair day either. If the op had only wanted opinions from professionals or instructors, he could have posted in the instructional forum or stated his desire to do so.
Sometimes people forget that someone who is anonymous could be could be lying or just writing some bs junk. They have nothing to lose. Nice and comfy.
When you put your name on the line, you don't screw around like that.