The future of pool

[336Robin]

Another Reply

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After searching for answers myself during the course of filming "Raising the Hustler"
it became abundantly clear that most endeavours will not gain ground unless there is a mainstream interest coupled with a sufficient fanbase.
The only vehicle that's driven the billiard industry with fervor has been film.

Chicagoplayer,
It seems that we look to film to fix what is wrong with pool since the Hustler, Color of Money, Pool Hall Junkies etc. The absence of someone who stands to profit from the overall development of the sport/game leaves us all to our individual contributions, then it is what it is.

I myself have conceded to the realization that grassroots efforts at building that fan base are where things are. I have two ebooks that I will put out, hopefully getting in touch with some people with home table interests. I am going to make available in the back sections a hyperlink section that is meant to be educational about pool and the world of pool.

Beyond that my hopes are that my perspectives will bear fruit and enable me to produce 2 small pamphlet type books that are designed to make things easier with new original material. These books are designed to be inexpensive enough that room owners could either sell them or give away a copy here and there in hopes to gain a pool player and a customer.

Building a base of interest is key to maintaining it and my point all along for room owners has been.....What kind of advertising do you do?...What kind of outreach program do you have to gain interest? Most say they either cant afford it or don't know what to do or another is my idea of creating a magazine of my material to send to out to waiting rooms is just way too labor intensive for them to sit down and address and send out some mail once a month. So room owner apathy figures in there even its a cheap way to advertise.

Room owners want to open the door and sell table time, food and alcohol and that's pretty much it so unless the model changes somewhat or their attitude about outreach programs, it is what it is and what its going to be, regardless of the film industry. I think we have reached a point where a pool film might have little or no effect because as you say the fan base just isn't there.....because of the way we have chosen to grow. We might have reached the turning point where we are seeing what isn't working.

 

[macguy]

I guess this was my point. Why concentrate on areas of development that are difficult and near impossible? When there are countless numbers of educational institutions already purpose built for learning activities. In this case, pool. :thumbup:

The trouble is there is still nowhere to play the game once you have introduced it to new players. It would be pointless. One table in a school available for a few hours a week does not make a pool room. We are talking about a system that can perpetuate the sport and keep it alive.

There is no need for all these new players if the pool rooms are all gone. Of course there are the bars everywhere with small tables but lets not kid ourselves, bars are based on people drinking, the pool table is just mindless entertainment for the most part. I am talking about the big table game of pool that is disappearing.

 

[kntbeach]

This is not a new concept, I lettered 3 years in billiards in high school 1972-1974. It was big in Idaho at the time. I do not know why it went away.

 

[macguy]

This is not a new concept, I lettered 3 years in billiards in high school 1972-1974. It was big in Idaho at the time. I do not know why it went away.

I am just guessing but I bet you all played at a local bowling alley that was involved. You didn't have tables at the school did you? Years ago there were college champions every year. Nick Varner was a college champion so yes it is nothing new. U of M had like a 8 or 10 table room with Gold crowns right on campus. I played there and it was nice. I wonder if any colleges still have pool rooms?

I just did a quick look and I found this.
http://uunions.umich.edu/billiards/home

 

[measureman]

Dateline 5/22/2314
Archeologists today while excavating an old lost city called Denver unearthed a strange looking table. It appears to have a slate surface with six holes around the perimeter.
Dr. Smith of the One World Government University thought it may be some sort of dining room table but the six holes has him baffled.Further study is needed.

 

[9andout]

Joe Rogan LOVES pool.
He just happens to have the ear of some people with REALLY DEEP pockets..................................................Dana White and the Especially the Fertitta brothers. (UFC owners (Fertitta's) for those that don't know)
That is a good direction to go.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[kntbeach]

We had 4 nine foot tables at my school and had county district and state tourney just like baseball and basketball and football. We did not have soccer, golf or archery.

 

[336Robin]

If I were spending money like that

Joe Rogan LOVES pool.
He just happens to have the ear of some people with REALLY DEEP pockets..................................................Dana White and the Especially the Fertitta brothers. (UFC owners (Fertitta's) for those that don't know)
That is a good direction to go.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If I were spending money like that I would be making changes to grassroots of pool sure enough any other reason would be a total waste.

 

[cajunfats]

Commendable

Welcome Students and Parents to the Sport of High School Billiards!

We would like to welcome and introduce you to the 2013-2014 BETTER High School Billiard Program (Billiard Excellence Through Training, Education & Recreation). This unique sports billiard program was started in 2001 in Dallas, Texas and was designed as an after-school sport for 9th- 12th grade boys and girls students. Freshmen students and girls have excelled in the billiard program and are highly encouraged to participate.

Program Objective: To train, educate and offer a recreational life-time sport that is competitive and fun for all high school students.

“In high school billiards, the students most interested are...the competitive students who love the challenge of the SPORT, the thinking students who thrive on analyzing the GAME, and the social students who enjoy the camaraderie of competitive high school team PLAY.”


To be a student of billiards will involve learning the arts and science of the sport. This will require discipline, concentration and focus. Traditional classroom subjects will be introduced and thoroughly used in the program such as: Geometry, Physics, Physical Education, & History.

In order to participate and compete on the high school billiard team or club requires the students to maintain and prove academic satisfactory grades. PAST STUDENTS HAVE SHOWN DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENTS IN THEIR CLASSROOM GRADES!!

The billiard program is ALWAYS highly supervised and the school code of conduct is strictly enforced.

Some students will have experience and natural talent while others will need a little coaching and instruction. As in the past, ALL eligible students will receive professional billiard instruction from PBIA Certified Instructors. Beginner players have excelled in the program and have qualified and participated at the National level. Students with no experience playing billiards are encouraged to join.

There are student opportunities for national and international competition, college scholarships, and academic and billiard excellence recognition. In past years we have sent dozens of our students to compete at the U.S. Junior Nationals across the U.S. to represent Texas, their high schools, and themselves. We are extremely proud of those students who have participated at the “Nationals”, earned BEF Academic All-American recognition, and to the students who have received college scholarships for their commitment to billiards.

This past summer Dallas high school billiard program students competed at the 25th BEF Junior Nationals in Las Vegas, Nevada along with 130 other top U.S. junior players in the country. In December the U.S. will be sending its top junior players to the World Junior Championships being held in Johannesburg, South Africa. In 1998 the International Olympic Committee had recognized billiards as a legitimate sport. Since then countries around the world have successfully started high school billiard programs to compete internationally. In order for the U.S. to be competitive in the future we will need to prepare and develop our students. We need you.

Seniors who qualify may be eligible for 2014 billiard college scholarships. Players will also be selected to compete at the 2014 BEF Junior Nationals. To be a competitive player at the National level takes skill, commitment, knowledge and a strong desire to improve. To excel in the sport of billiards you will need to learn and master basic physics and geometry problems. Critical thinking, decision-making and problem solving skills will be exercised throughout game play practice and competition.

The ultimate success of this program is with the teacher sponsors, students and the parents who will be involved in this much needed alternative sport for your student. Talk to your friends to join the team or club. We look forward to exciting and competitive play in the 2013-2014 seasons. Don’t miss out on this opportunity!


“I thank you for your interest in the great sport of billiards and look forward to working with you in this year’s program.”



Earl C. Munson Jr.
BETTER H.S. Billiard Program- Director
BEF Junior National- Tournament Director
PBIA Certified- Billiards Instructor

I congratulate Mr. Munson for his ability to get a program going in the Dallas area.It does provide those local kids with an outlet to experience pool at a young age in an educational environment.

Since he started in 2001, in the 13 years since, the evidence shows that the billiard industry is not interested in moving youth programs forward. While the implied mission of the BEF is to help foster such growth, it has not utilized any measure of organization to achieve those goals. Participation in "World" events are nothing more than window dressing.

The BCA used to be an organization that had a lot going for it. Fear of success stifled their progress, and inept leadership corrupted the core of the business. The "good old boys" club always had a tight rein on the organization, and misguided priorities played the axeman in the achievements.

In regards to the question of the OP, pool is surviving, and always will,so there is a "future".

It will require a massive overhaul in philosophy in order to reach the nationwide youth element. That, I do not see happening.

Each person could do their part locally, and it would eventually have an impact. But, that may take a few hundred years at this pace.

cajunfats

 

[pooler]

Dateline 5/22/2314
Archeologists today while excavating an old lost city called Denver unearthed a strange looking table. It appears to have a slate surface with six holes around the perimeter.
Dr. Smith of the One World Government University thought it may be some sort of dining room table but the six holes has him baffled.Further study is needed.

Dateline 5/23/2314

Closer observations led to the discovery of six identical, symmetric engravings around the holes. Each engraving reads:
TOI only
OWGU’s Department of Runes and Cryptography has been contacted to assist in the case.
Further information will be released shortly.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

The trouble is there is still nowhere to play the game once you have introduced it to new players. It would be pointless. One table in a school available for a few hours a week does not make a pool room. We are talking about a system that can perpetuate the sport and keep it alive.

There is no need for all these new players if the pool rooms are all gone. Of course there are the bars everywhere with small tables but lets not kid ourselves, bars are based on people drinking, the pool table is just mindless entertainment for the most part. I am talking about the big table game of pool that is disappearing.

Not completely pointless.
Take for example gymnastics. Is it a sport of an activity? - who cares as this isn't my point.
My point is, how many gymnasiums are opening world wide on an annual basis? Very expensive facilities to build, yet every school has one. Therefore there isn't a need to go looking elsewhere. Schools can provide a bedrock for billiards not just in the USA but worldwide. But how does this get done without organisation :thumbup:

 

[Baby Huey]

This post is a good one and it ultimately will affect the future of the game we all love to play. I own a pool room and in the last fifteen years I've been able to cultivate only 4 players that stuck with the game. I've had many try and for whatever reason gravitated to other endeavors or just moved on in their life mission. So, this is a multfactorial problem. Getting into the schools and teaching is a good way of stimulating interest but more is required. I think cost is a major factor in developing younger players and also "Blue Laws" in cities and states which won't allow minors into pool rooms which serve alcohol. I happen to have an old license, grandfathered in, which allows minors to come into my place as I do serve beer. On the cost side of things, rent everywhere has gone up and just the cost of doing business in a large building with all the overhead involved just pushes people out of any interest in opening up new rooms. Unless you own the property you can almost assure yourself you just bought a full time job without any opportunity to earn a living. Lastly, it costs too much to learn to play the game. You have to have very generous specials for the kids to come in and play.

 

[9andout]

If I were spending money like that I would be making changes to grassroots of pool sure enough any other reason would be a total waste.

You could do both. And the big money and TV exposure would bring MANY more players in naturally.

 

[RunOut Apps]

Put our scorekeeper app in schools and it will make pool current and attractive for the next generation.

We would make it free for a National scholastic program..


https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.runoutapps.scorekeeper

 

[Dunnn51]

That is all fantasy though, who is going to open theses places? There is no evidence there is any market for such an investment. Pools heyday as mentioned many times was because it was linked to bowling. That is when almost everybody from the 50's thru the 90's discovered the game.

From there it expanded to stand alone rooms that were pool only but still had the bowling alley's producing new players. That is all gone now. The bowling alleys with 20 and 30 table billiard rooms are long gone and the stand alone pool room is all but extinct.

The game is in the bars now and the bar table and league play "IS" pool today. I don't see anything turning that around. If not for the bar pool the game would be as dead as miniature golf. Remember when there was a Miniature golf courses in like every town? When is the last time you saw one?

What you describe if it actually happened would most certainly have bar tables. Put in some change and play a quick game just for something to do. Little of that would produce a new generation of pool players or resurrect the classic game.

Here is what needs to be asked; by room owners, the fans, the players, the promoters, the sponsors....

Where is pool going to be in the US in the next 5 years ?? AND more important, How is it going to get there?

I know one thing: In Asia & Europe, it will only GAIN popularity. This leaves a truly huge potential for pool in the US pending that the US gains exposure to its own masses like it has in Europe/Asia. Pool is "all mixed-up" in the US.
Television (mass media) exposure is key ! Pro Bowling would not be possible if the PBT were not televised. (I was no fan of bowling,but I did watch it anyway. Part of the reason was to see if Earl Anthony, or Mark Weber could bowl a perfect game.) <-- funny how I still remember their names.
The time for pool in the US is NOW ! There are so many factors that can "make or break" pool right now; it would be sad to see pool die as bowling has.
You could probably satisfy the bowling crowd with a 1/2 dozen skee-ball machines from a carnival. Would take up 1/6 of the space, cost to run, taxes, etc., and still have just as many participants.

We both seem to agree on youth and entertainment as key ingredients to pools resurrection. I think leagues are great, especially in rural areas. Leagues can have their social issues though. So,......... how can young ppl interested/get interested in pool other than leagues. How about local level tournaments ? (I know,... I know,... no interest on their part, right?)
Here is where mass-media and "grass roots" have to meet. "Interest in the game", has to be generated.
You cannot start a fire with only a match. You cannot start one with only tinder,........ it takes Both !

more .03

 

[itsfroze]

Here is what needs to be asked; by room owners, the fans, the players, the promoters, the sponsors....

Where is pool going to be in the US in the next 5 years ?? AND more important, How is it going to get there?

I know one thing: In Asia & Europe, it will only GAIN popularity. This leaves a truly huge potential for pool in the US pending that the US gains exposure to its own masses like it has in Europe/Asia. Pool is "all mixed-up" in the US.
Television (mass media) exposure is key ! Pro Bowling would not be possible if the PBT were not televised. (I was no fan of bowling,but I did watch it anyway. Part of the reason was to see if Earl Anthony, or Mark Weber could bowl a perfect game.) <-- funny how I still remember their names.
The time for pool in the US is NOW ! There are so many factors that can "make or break" pool right now; it would be sad to see pool die as bowling has.
You could probably satisfy the bowling crowd with a 1/2 dozen skee-ball machines from a carnival. Would take up 1/6 of the space, cost to run, taxes, etc., and still have just as many participants.

We both seem to agree on youth and entertainment as key ingredients to pools resurrection. I think leagues are great, especially in rural areas. Leagues can have their social issues though. So,......... how can young ppl interested/get interested in pool other than leagues. How about local level tournaments ? (I know,... I know,... no interest on their part, right?)
Here is where mass-media and "grass roots" have to meet. "Interest in the game", has to be generated.
You cannot start a fire with only a match. You cannot start one with only tinder,........ it takes Both !

more .03

"to see if Earl Anthony, or Mark Weber could bowl a perfect game.) <-- funny how I still remember their names."

Earl Anthony you got that name right, he fell down a flight of stairs in his house and hit his head and unfortunately it took his life.
As far as Mark Weber, you might have been thinking of Mark Roth. The Weber's were Dick the father and Pete was his son, but you had the last name right. :smile:

 

[CJ Wiley]

at some point the game will have a charisma of it's own

The game has been "out of sight, out of mind" for many years now. Without TV coverage there is very little hope for pool and most sports/games would die over the course of a few years without TV coverage......Poker has the example of a huge influx of players, a direct result of TV exposure in the last 10-15 years.

Pool's market is now only 10% of Poker's according to our research......this is out of proportion and gives pool a clear growth probability.....the vital component that has been neglected is the "Magic TV Bullet" which would change the presentation and the public perception immediately.

One thing's for sure we can't keep doing the same things and showcasing the game in the the typical way........the characters and personalities must pull the game, not the other way around.......then, at some point the game will have a charisma of it's own. 'The Game is the Teacher'

You could do both. And the big money and TV exposure would bring MANY more players in naturally.

 

[macguy]

The game has been "out of sight, out of mind" for many years now. Without TV coverage there is very little hope for pool and most sports/games would die over the course of a few years without TV coverage......Poker has the example of a huge influx of players, a direct result of TV exposure in the last 10-15 years.

Pool's market is now only 10% of Poker's according to our research......this is out of proportion and gives pool a clear growth probability.....the vital component that has been neglected is the "Magic TV Bullet" which would change the presentation and the public perception immediately.

One thing's for sure we can't keep doing the same things and showcasing the game in the the typical way........the characters and personalities must pull the game, not the other way around.......then, at some point the game will have a charisma of it's own. 'The Game is the Teacher'

You have it backwards. TV doesn't create a need, that is not their job, it fills a need. There is no current need for pool on TV. There is nothing you could point to or show to any media that tells them anyone want to see pool on TV. Until that happens they just sit back and follow what ever the trends are.

Even after the COM and the huge spurt in pool activity TV didn't jump on the band wagon in any real way. Maybe a few shows like that thing with the old timers but nothing that really had any interest to main stream watchers. That was when pool was at one of it's highest points.

Today it has the chance of an ice cube in hell on network or even cable TV. Pools future will have to be in the net and what is wrong with that, you have an audience without boarders, world wide. All current focus needs to be there.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The last few years "opinions" have taken pool a long way......backwards

We'll have to "agree to disagree". I know from experience that "TV" is a business and if you pay them they will provide you with "air time".

No matter if you think you can, or think you can't....you're right. :groucho:

We made a LOT of pool shows in the 80s & 90s that went out to tens of millions of people. I, personally grossed over 53 million as a direct and indirect result of my TV exposure - so did Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak and Nick Varner to name a few (in pool related businesses, sponsorship and merchandising).

During my time with ESPN the PCA was involved in over 60 shows that averaged over a "1" Rating (over one million households) and the match I had with Vivian went out to over 2.8 million people and was played many times internationally.

The last few years "opinions" have taken pool a long way***......backwards as you would say. LoL - that's ok, this is getting ready to change and cycle back up...significantly.

***insanity = doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.....pool is not the exception, it's the "sample example" of this type of insanity.

You have it backwards. TV doesn't create a need, that is not their job, it fills a need. There is no current need for pool on TV. There is nothing you could point to or show to any media that tells them anyone want to see pool on TV. Until that happens they just sit back and follow what ever the trends are.

Even after the COM and the huge spurt in pool activity TV didn't jump on the band wagon in any real way. Maybe a few shows like that thing with the old timers but nothing that really had any interest to main stream watchers. That was when pool was at one of it's highest points.

Today it has the chance of an ice cube in hell on network or even cable TV. Pools future will have to be in the net and what is wrong with that, you have audience without boarders, world wide. All current focus needs to be there.

 

[macguy]

We'll have to "agree to disagree". I know from experience that "TV" is a business and if you pay them they will provide you with "air time".

No matter if you think you can, or think you can't....you're right. :groucho:

We made a LOT of pool shows in the 80s & 90s that went out to tens of millions of people. I, personally grossed over 53 million as a direct and indirect result of my TV exposure - so did Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak and Nick Varner to name a few (in pool related businesses, sponsorship and merchandising).

During my time with ESPN the PCA was involved in over 60 shows that averaged over a "1" Rating (over one million households) and the match I had with Vivian went out to over 2.8 million people and was played many times internationally.

The last few years "opinions" have taken pool a long way***......backwards as you would say. LoL - that's ok, this is getting ready to change and cycle back up...significantly.

***insanity = doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.....pool is not the exception, it's the "sample example" of this type of insanity.

So what happened? I have to say, I have owned a TV for a long time and I never saw any of this. Has anyone else on here ever seen anything you did? You seem to want to make this a debate rather then an exchange of ideas and you even throw in an insult to boot should someone have a different idea.

It was funny as I was just writing this I heard a story on the news in the background. It applied directly to what I was just saying. Take a look.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/11/paula-deen-digital-network_n_5485648.html

Something like that is real, not a bunch of pie in the sky ideas that may or may not ever happen. This is real and reachable. That is my last word on the subject, at least to you, you are more interested in the sound of your own voice.