China World=Poor Format

[HelloBaby-]

For a few years ban anyone that is not a U.S citizen. Nobody but a small group of pool nuts watch pool anyway and even a smaller group of nuts pay to watch it. Keep ALL the tournament purses in the U.S for now while the players and promoters get it together with a organization. If they can't get it together in a year or two, let the floodgates of 100% sponsored players from other countries back in and stick a fork in 95% of the U.S. players. Johnnyt

Hey man, that's a good idea . Or you can do something like others countries do: still allow international players but a part of the price money goes for one or some package ( like it is in poker ) to a international tourney and yes it's exclusively for American players without sponsorship.

 

[spartan]

The event was packed with full-field, even the qualifiers were packed, so tell me why they have to change something to attrach some tier 2 pro from the U.S ( nothing against these guys, but they are obviously one level below the champions ).

Correct

If their boys were winning we wouldn't hear a peep , just like the MC cup ,, it's funny how the Filipino guys end up near the top ,, there's nothing wrong with the format it always produces a worthy champion who was ready to play and and made the least amount of mistakes ,,it's not supposed to be easy ,,
Sour grapes is all it is


1

Best post of this thread. You tell it all in one stroke
So long as the format and rules are stated before start and rules applied equally to all players, it could be loser break or played on 20 ft table or rack with robot for all I care.
Players know what are in for when they play , if they don't like the format get out.

 

[gxman]

The chinese put up 330K+ of prize money with no entry free and americans are still complaining? The only sad part is Corey and Rodney Morris didn't finish top 16, which would've been another 1200 at least on top of 1800 for finishing 17-32. I dont know any tournaments in the U.S that pays 1800 for finishing 17-32.

See link showing entry fee none.
http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...ball-open/5319-china-open-2013-mens-division/

Don't like it, dont come...

 

[pooljd]

For a few years ban anyone that is not a U.S citizen. Nobody but a small group of pool nuts watch pool anyway and even a smaller group of nuts pay to watch it. Keep ALL the tournament purses in the U.S for now while the players and promoters get it together with a organization. If they can't get it together in a year or two, let the floodgates of 100% sponsored players from other countries back in and stick a fork in 95% of the U.S. players. Johnnyt

Smells like protectionism, what irony!

I have seen exactly what you propose in the US, Johnnyt. Just that they're 10$ entry with 80$ payout weekend tourneys.

 

[Bayawak]

Is the draw done in public or behind the curtain? Johnnyt

Have you ever heard of the Filipinos questioning and complaining about the US Open draw? And you have to question the draw in this tournament whether its public or behind the scenes, deal with it!!

 

[Johnnyt]

Have you ever heard of the Filipinos questioning and complaining about the US Open draw? And you have to question the draw in this tournament whether its public or behind the scenes, deal with it!!

So it's behind the scenes I take it. Johnnyt

 

[Bayawak]

So it's behind the scenes I take it. Johnnyt

Yep! Just like your much touted US Open! How come we don't hear any *****in about their behind the scenes draw?
Stop complaining already!! I don't hear any other nations or country ***** as much as you people do..

 

[Johnnyt]

Yep! Just like your much touted US Open! How come we don't hear any *****in about their behind the scenes draw?
Stop complaining already!! I don't hear any other nations or country ***** as much as you people do..

I don't like much about our U.S. Open 9 ball either. Give one reason to not have the draw player-public? Johnnyt

 

[Bayawak]

I don't like much about our U.S. Open 9 ball either. Give one reason to not have the draw player-public? Johnnyt

Hey Johnny, the way I look at it, what goes around comes around, agreed?

 

[Bob Jewett]

So it's behind the scenes I take it. Johnnyt

And I take it that's it's according to seeded position and performance in the qualifiers. That's the way real tournaments are usually done and not by random draw.

 

[arps]

Well, Johhnyt.
If you feel the China Open format was bad, what do you propose for a better approach?

a race to 50 with 30 grand bet from your own pocket in the TAR room. :smile:

 

[SouthernDraw]

Look in the mirror!

If you are a top 20 player in the US and you can't find a sponsor or backer (for 3k with possibility to snap off $40k), you need to look in the mirror! Find a way to make your image marketable...Stop looking at instant $$ signs and think about the future. Tournaments like this should be more about the TITLE and less about the money. If you get enough Titles...the money will come if you will manage your image.

As far as the format, everyone played under the same format. SVB had to play Wu in the first round...but Wu had to play SVB in the first round also. Learn the short races and single eliminations. Urge promoters to use the format a couple times a year and learn how to flourish in it. The Philippinos and Euro's have done it. No reason our guys can't.

It's time for us to stop making excuses. Excuses used to not be in our nature.

I thinks that this is another wake up call for our (the US) status in our sport.

Daren

 

[Jaden]

I haven't been there...

But from what I've heard the biggest difference is the ease of the tables there compared to here.

When they use wider pockets than what Shane dominates on here combined with the other things mentioned, it doesn't make for the best player winning, it becomes a who's luckiest that day and it levels the playing field. You can tell that based on the lack of dominance in those conditions and formats versus the dominance that Shane exhibits here.

If it was just that Shane couldn't compete as well over seas, then someone over there would be winning as often as Shane, but, correct me if I'm wrong, no one is dominating on that stage the way Shane does here. Also, don't say that Shane doesn't have the same level of competition there as here because most of the same players that lose in tournaments that Shane dominates here are the same ones in those other tournaments who often times win them.

So, sure you can say that Shane can't compete over seas, but the actual evidence doesn't seem to mete that out; instead it seems more that the conditions and format, level the playing field more overseas making it more difficult for players to dominate.

Jaden

 

[SouthernDraw]

Seeded Position Doesn't Matter to World Champions

And I take it that's it's according to seeded position and performance in the qualifiers. That's the way real tournaments are usually done and not by random draw.

And either way, to me, the seeded position doesn't really matter. That is a formulation (by executives of sports and tv) to ensure that a marketable matchup is more likely on television. Which would mean larger audience and more revenue.

But, it shouldn't matter whether the two best play in the first match or the last match. Every matchup counts. If you are worthy to be a World Champion, you should covet the challenge of imposing your will on all the best in the world.

Reminds me of a story about Denny Searcy from one of his old backers. He said Denny didn't care about counting the money he won each night. He said, "Denny only saw money as a way to keep score."

Daren

 

[BeiberLvr]

But from what I've heard the biggest difference is the ease of the tables there compared to here.

When they use wider pockets than what Shane dominates on here combined with the other things mentioned, it doesn't make for the best player winning, it becomes a who's luckiest that day and it levels the playing field. You can tell that based on the lack of dominance in those conditions and formats versus the dominance that Shane exhibits here.

If it was just that Shane couldn't compete as well over seas, then someone over there would be winning as often as Shane, but, correct me if I'm wrong, no one is dominating on that stage the way Shane does here. Also, don't say that Shane doesn't have the same level of competition there as here because most of the same players that lose in tournaments that Shane dominates here are the same ones in those other tournaments who often times win them.

So, sure you can say that Shane can't compete over seas, but the actual evidence doesn't seem to mete that out; instead it seems more that the conditions and format, level the playing field more overseas making it more difficult for players to dominate.

Jaden

Pretty sure Shane's been on record stating he prefers bigger pockets.

The one thing I know he hates is alternating break, but if he ever wants to win a world title, it's something he needs to learn to deal with.

 

[King T]

Your right!

You get the wrong idea.
You really thing chineses people care about whether some unknown Americans gonna come or not ? Wake up. All they care are the champions ( Shane included ) and chineses players, didn't you see they didn't give shit about some big match up like orcullo vs ralf so they put some chinese guy on the main stream.
WPA format is indentical for all events, it's made to fit the schedule and also for the TV, single elimination is the way to go in every sport, snooker is single elimination from the 1st round. As Niels Feijen said on his FB :" it's how it is now, adapt or get your liver short in"

No body wants to see the American players anyway, they cant play!!! SVB is the only guy that has any chance at the money anyway. There are some good young guys coming up, Skylar, Little D, Klatt, Morra, Bergman, Stuff, and a number of others..., but the China open is about champions and America only has one SVB.

P.S. there are few big money events in the states.

 

[SouthernDraw]

SVB will figure this out

But from what I've heard the biggest difference is the ease of the tables there compared to here.

When they use wider pockets than what Shane dominates on here combined with the other things mentioned, it doesn't make for the best player winning, it becomes a who's luckiest that day and it levels the playing field. You can tell that based on the lack of dominance in those conditions and formats versus the dominance that Shane exhibits here.

If it was just that Shane couldn't compete as well over seas, then someone over there would be winning as often as Shane, but, correct me if I'm wrong, no one is dominating on that stage the way Shane does here. Also, don't say that Shane doesn't have the same level of competition there as here because most of the same players that lose in tournaments that Shane dominates here are the same ones in those other tournaments who often times win them.

So, sure you can say that Shane can't compete over seas, but the actual evidence doesn't seem to mete that out; instead it seems more that the conditions and format, level the playing field more overseas making it more difficult for players to dominate.

Jaden

Good post!

I think these tournaments show SVB's biggest challenges as a pro. China is the most difficult place for any American poolplayer to travel. Food, lodging, language etc. All are not bad, they're just different. And the biggest challenges are the short races and the stress of no second chances. And, yes, the equipment cancels out some of his advantages. And he probably should have finished higher than he has so far.

But, I believe that he will figure this out soon. And when he does...he'll start a string. He seems to like to prove others wrong. And he doesn't seem to be one to quit or even make excuses. Yeah, he may list the difficulties, but champions have to do this to change their approach and overcome their obstacles.

I think sending more seasoned pro's like Billy I or JayH to observe everything there and use their experiences to consult our pros on how to prepare for these events would shorten their learning curve. But, we really don't have a professional organization to fund a project like this and lead the pro's in this manner. And in a few cases, it would fall on deaf ears anyway. This takes a more collective conversation approach. Hmmm...kinda like teamwork and coaching. Sounds like the same challenges as Mosconi Cup.

Daren

Daren

 

[arps]

So, sure you can say that Shane can't compete over seas, but the actual evidence doesn't seem to mete that out; instead it seems more that the conditions and format, level the playing field more overseas making it more difficult for players to dominate.

Jaden

Shane CAN compete. He was actually doing well. He drowned Li Hewen 9-1, if you remember. He just got eliminated because Biado was the better player.
i was just wondering, if the score on Biado-SVB was 11-3, making it 14 racks and 7 breaks for each player, how come shane only scored 3? i mean, shane has one of the best breaks and CB control after the break. with this advantage for break-runouts, shane should have scored at least 7.

 

[Swighey]

Pretty sure Shane's been on record stating he prefers bigger pockets.

The one thing I know he hates is alternating break, but if he ever wants to win a world title, it's something he needs to learn to deal with.

:thumbup: He likes winner breaks because of his break. Winner breaks is fine in bars and in long races for cash. I just don't get why any serious pool player would prefer (from a pool point of view not a personal advantage one) this format in a tournament. Winner serves in tennis? Winner of a hand gets the button heads up in poker? Fastest chess player gets an extra move? SVB gets the break because he has the best break? Bollox!

It's a tournament. Your chance of winning at least $1800 is good if you are one of the best players. Chris Melling is freerolling (kind of) because he will get a big payout even if loses in the first round of the Wuxi Classic but at the end of the day the players are turning up because the tournament is good value. For all of them.

 

[strokin'myshaft]

Pretty sure Shane's been on record stating he prefers bigger pockets.

This is true. He hated table 1 at HT because of tight pockets. And after his 3rd straight loss to Archer, Buste, and Dennis O in TAR matches, those TAR pockets had to be widened.