Pool "Secrets" Found on AZ

[Banks]

That sounds familiar. Where's your annotated bibliography?

Regards,
Dave

When you folks are done, let me know so that I can submit it all to Snopes!

 

[jay helfert]

I wrote or paraphrased most of those from memory. Some were from similar past AZB threads. I also made up some of them (e.g., "Don't put too much American on the ball." and "Let one finger stay and the other will point the way."). Many are famous quotes from famous people (e.g., Benjamin Franklin, Tommy Lasorda, Edison, Einstein, etc.). When I can find some time, I will try to research these and list the original authors (and make sure the quotes are correct, and not just paraphrased).

I doubt most of the pool-advice quotes can be attributed to any one individual with an original published source, but I will try to research these also. Many are just obvious things that different people paraphrase in different ways and aren't attributed to any one person. For example, do you think I could find original sources for:

"It's not the cue. It's you,"
"Don't use more power than you can control."
"Draw for show, follow for dough."
"There's nothing worse than good position if you miss the shot."
"Don't try to get perfect shape when good shape will do."
"Playing a tough shot is better than playing a tough safety."
"If you can't find the one being hustled in the pool room, it's you."
"There's always a shot ... you just have to find it."
"Don't try to run out unless you can."
"Think long, think wrong."
"Stroke it, don't poke it."
"Let your cue do the work."
etc.!

Regards,
Dave

Very good stuff here. I always tell them "MAKE THE BALL FIRST!" At least if you make the ball you're still at the table and in control. If you miss, refer to #4 above. :wink:

 

[CJ Wiley]

The "impossible bank" with inside english (not hitting back rail with cue ball)

Here's an "impossible bank" with inside english.....I first saw "Chicago Bugs" make a similar one in Detroit. This is pure angle, not "throw" and I can hit it even thinner if needed.

CLICK LINK

You the man. Thanks, but you trying to drive me crazy!! 'impossible bank' with inside english common!! i thought we are buddies!
I was able to make it with outside, but had to cheat!! once you apply the cheat you make it every time:bash:

 

[dr_dave]

FYI, a better version, with narration, can be found at the 1:09 point in:

NV B.92 - "Impossible" cut shots, from VEPS V

Dr. Dave when you shot the impossible cut shot, the 11 ball, i slowed down the video speed, and noticed that the 11 ball did not spin left or right it rolled to the pocket; and that agrees with the fact you did not stun it and hit hard so no collision induced throw and no spin induced throw. The shot i am talking about at about 1.52, note the white stripe it did not go side way! is this wrong observation or right? i did noticed a lot of side spin for the stun with english shots on other vids..Again thank you for all your time.

In that video, it is difficult to detect throw and spin transfer just by watching the OB stripe; however, the OB directions seem to indicate that there is throw (and therefore spin transfer, which occurs hand in hand with throw ... you can't have one without the other).

It sounds like you still doubt that throw and spin transfer must occur together. Remember, they are both caused by the same force (due to sideways friction).

If you haven't looked at my spin transfer article yet, check it out:
"Throw - Part VIII: spin transfer" (BD, March, 2007)
It illustrates and explains things fairly well.

For a better video illustrating throw and spin transfer at different cut angles, and different types and amounts of english, see:

HSV B.33 - Outside english gearing, and cut and spin-induced throw

The last shot shows throw and spin transfer with a really thin cut. Check it out. The effects are clearly visible.

Here's another related video:

HSV B.30 - Cut-induced and spin-induced throw and spin transfer

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I wrote or paraphrased most of those from memory. Some were from similar past AZB threads. I also made up some of them (e.g., "Don't put too much American on the ball." and "Let one finger stay and the other will point the way."). Many are famous quotes from famous people (e.g., Benjamin Franklin, Yogi Berra, Edison, Einstein, etc.). When I can find some time, I will try to research these and list the original authors (and make sure the quotes are correct, and not just paraphrased).

I doubt most of the pool-advice quotes can be attributed to any one individual with an original published source, but I will try to research these also. Many are just obvious things that different people paraphrase in different ways and aren't attributed to any one person. For example, do you think I could find original sources for:

"It's not the cue. It's you,"
"Don't use more power than you can control."
"Draw for show, follow for dough."
"There's nothing worse than good position if you miss the shot."
"Don't try to get perfect shape when good shape will do."
"Playing a tough shot is better than playing a tough safety."
"If you can't find the one being hustled in the pool room, it's you."
"There's always a shot ... you just have to find it."
"Don't try to run out unless you can."
"Think long, think wrong."
"Stroke it, don't poke it."
"Let your cue do the work."
etc.!

Regards,
Dave

Very good stuff here. I always tell them "MAKE THE BALL FIRST!" At least if you make the ball you're still at the table and in control. If you miss, refer to #4 above. :wink:

My teammates always remind each other: "Make the Ball!!!" That's even more concise ... and usually effective advise. I certainly like hearing it (and saying it to myself) often ... it works.

That's another example where I don't think any one person can be given credit for the quote because it is so common and obvious.

Sorry, but I don't think I can give you credit for that one. In fact, one of my teammates thinks he invented it. I haven't been able to convince him yet that just because he was the first to say it to our team doesn't mean he "invented" it or should be given "credit" for it.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[3kushn]

Here's an "impossible bank" with inside english.....I first saw "Chicago Bugs" make a similar one in Detroit. This is pure angle, not "throw" and I can hit it even thinner if needed.

CLICK LINK

Can't stop the vid to see it but looks like the old 1P kiss. Wrong?

 

[Banks]

Can't stop the vid to see it but looks like the old 1P kiss. Wrong?

That's just a bank in the video, no double-kiss. I think the "impossible" part is not hitting the short rail by using inside. The inside helps bank it a little shorter than the thin hit would normally allow, letting more enlish grab the rail.

 

[dr_dave]

If you guys want to see famous pool-related quotes, see:

Top 100 Pool and Billiards Maxims, Sayings, and Quotes

If you just want "secrets," see:

Top 100 Pool and Billiards Tips, "Secrets," and "Gems"

I didn't see the references to the authors of those sayings and tips. Where are they listed on the web site?

I wrote or paraphrased most of those from memory. Some were from similar past AZB threads. I also made up some of them (e.g., "Don't put too much American on the ball." and "Let one finger stay and the other will point the way."). Many are famous quotes from famous people (e.g., Benjamin Franklin, Yogi Berra, Edison, Einstein, etc.). When I can find some time, I will try to research these and list the original authors (and make sure the quotes are correct, and not just paraphrased).

I doubt most of the pool-advice quotes can be attributed to any one individual with an original published source, but I will try to research these also. Many are just obvious things that different people paraphrase in different ways and aren't attributed to any one person. For example, do you think I could find original sources for:

"It's not the cue. It's you,"
"Don't use more power than you can control."
"Draw for show, follow for dough."
"There's nothing worse than good position if you miss the shot."
"Don't try to get perfect shape when good shape will do."
"Playing a tough shot is better than playing a tough safety."
"If you can't find the one being hustled in the pool room, it's you."
"There's always a shot ... you just have to find it."
"Don't try to run out unless you can."
"Think long, think wrong."
"Stroke it, don't poke it."
"Let your cue do the work."
etc.!

Fran,

FYI, I did my best to research as many of these as I could, and I've added author credit to the ones that are clearly attributable to a single person.

Thank you for indirectly encouraging me to do this.

Regards,
Dave

 

[CJ Wiley]

This was a gambling proposition that it can be banked WITHOUT hitting the end rail.

I know it looks "impossible," although you can't always trust your eyes.

The funny thing is I can cut/bank it all the way down to the middle diamond and did a couple of times. You can't cut this shot that thin and make it with "outside english".

This was a gambling proposition that it can be banked WITHOUT hitting the end rail....which certainly seems impossible and have received 15/1 on the money....i've made it three times in a row before. 'The Bank Game is the Teacher'

Can't stop the vid to see it but looks like the old 1P kiss. Wrong?

 

[CJ Wiley]

many of these quotes aren't true

"It's not the cue. It's you,"
"Don't use more power than you can control."
"Draw for show, follow for dough."
"There's nothing worse than good position if you miss the shot."
"Don't try to get perfect shape when good shape will do."
"Playing a tough shot is better than playing a tough safety."
"If you can't find the one being hustled in the pool room, it's you."
"There's always a shot ... you just have to find it."
"Don't try to run out unless you can."
"Think long, think wrong."
"Stroke it, don't poke it."
"Let your cue do the work."
etc.!

Regards,
Dave

It's ironic that many of these quotes aren't true when playing serious pool.

 

[naji]

Can't stop the vid to see it but looks like the old 1P kiss. Wrong?

It is good shot but again inside here used to deflect cb to a thinner hit, and English have no effect at thin hits. Try put cb 6" below where it is now, now it is impossible like the side ob thin bank.

 

[naji]

In that video, it is difficult to detect throw and spin transfer just by watching the OB stripe; however, the OB directions seem to indicate that there is throw (and therefore spin transfer, which occurs hand in hand with throw ... you can't have one without the other).

It sounds like you still doubt that throw and spin transfer must occur together. Remember, they are both caused by the same force (due to sideways friction).

If you haven't looked at my spin transfer article yet, check it out:
"Throw - Part VIII: spin transfer" (BD, March, 2007)
It illustrates and explains things fairly well.

For a better video illustrating throw and spin transfer at different cut angles, and different types and amounts of english, see:

HSV B.33 - Outside english gearing, and cut and spin-induced throw

The last shot shows throw and spin transfer with a really thin cut. Check it out. The effects are clearly visible.

Here's another related video:

HSV B.30 - Cut-induced and spin-induced throw and spin transfer

Regards,
Dave

Sorry Dr. Dave, I am sorry, I have to stick with my thinking, until I reach the level of experience you have, maybe then I will find out!

Just to confirm the controversy
You and others AZBers say that a thin hit 85 to 90 degree cut, outside or inside English (running, not stun) at fast speed will cause English induced spin (EIT), and collision induced throw (CIT) I say no way to both as evident in your video where ob 11 ball did not spin at all ( my Observation when slow mo the clip).
For smaller angles definitely and none ideal conditions sure will EIT and CIT

 

[dr_dave]

Sorry Dr. Dave, I am sorry, I have to stick with my thinking, until I reach the level of experience you have, maybe then I will find out!

Just to confirm the controversy
You and others AZBers say that a thin hit 85 to 90 degree cut, outside or inside English (running, not stun) at fast speed will cause English induced spin (EIT), and collision induced throw (CIT) I say no way to both as evident in your video where ob 11 ball did not spin at all ( my Observation when slow mo the clip).
For smaller angles definitely and none ideal conditions sure will EIT and CIT

Did you look at all of the article and video links I posted? If you did, and you still deny the effects, then I give up trying to convince you. I gave it my best shot.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

"It's not the cue. It's you,"
"Don't use more power than you can control."
"Draw for show, follow for dough."
"There's nothing worse than good position if you miss the shot."
"Don't try to get perfect shape when good shape will do."
"Playing a tough shot is better than playing a tough safety."
"If you can't find the one being hustled in the pool room, it's you."
"There's always a shot ... you just have to find it."
"Don't try to run out unless you can."
"Think long, think wrong."
"Stroke it, don't poke it."
"Let your cue do the work."
etc.!

It's ironic that many of these quotes aren't true when playing serious pool.

It's just a partial list of examples of common pool sayings. I agree with you that they don't all apply to all people and in all situations.

Regards,
Dave

 

[naji]

Did you look at all of the article and video links I posted? If you did, and you still deny the effects, then I give up trying to convince you. I gave it my best shot.

Catch you later,
Dave

Thanks again. I did look at all. Like i said before, i used to believe it, but after i got OB2 shaft, and straighten my stroke (my snooker pocketing increased 10 folds) i have revised my thinking it is day and night to me. I am not saying you are wrong; i am saying i am not convinced.

I am working on my jig to prove it, will see when i get there. Again thanks to you and all that contributed to this post; and by the way what you are doing to pool, and collecting all precious information in one place is an epic Wikipedia for the game, and highly highly appreciate it no matter where the source is, you are hereby by the "authority" vested in me authorized to use any document on the web or other places for this noble cause.

Also thanks to CJ's input (rushed my answer earlier did not thank you-sorry), i have seen similar shot i shot in one pocket, not sure if it is by you or someone else , two rail bank with OB frozen to rail near side pocket and CB near middle of table, very thin cut as if you are cutting the OB to upper corner pocket (on same rail) by under cutting by a hair, it goes two rails to opposite corner pocket (my pocket), if i miss hit it, ob goes three rails and leave it close to opponents pocket! yuiks!!

 

[FranCrimi]

I wrote or paraphrased most of those from memory. Some were from similar past AZB threads. I also made up some of them (e.g., "Don't put too much American on the ball." and "Let one finger stay and the other will point the way."). Many are famous quotes from famous people (e.g., Benjamin Franklin, Yogi Berra, Edison, Einstein, etc.). When I can find some time, I will try to research these and list the original authors (and make sure the quotes are correct, and not just paraphrased).

I doubt most of the pool-advice quotes can be attributed to any one individual with an original published source, but I will try to research these also. Many are just obvious things that different people paraphrase in different ways and aren't attributed to any one person. For example, do you think I could find original sources for:

"It's not the cue. It's you,"
"Don't use more power than you can control."
"Draw for show, follow for dough."
"There's nothing worse than good position if you miss the shot."
"Don't try to get perfect shape when good shape will do."
"Playing a tough shot is better than playing a tough safety."
"If you can't find the one being hustled in the pool room, it's you."
"There's always a shot ... you just have to find it."
"Don't try to run out unless you can."
"Think long, think wrong."
"Stroke it, don't poke it."
"Let your cue do the work."
etc.!

Regards,
Dave

You know the rules, Dave, especially given the fact that you are a published author yourself. I'm glad to hear that you will give credit where it is due.

 

[jay helfert]

My teammates always remind each other: "Make the Ball!!!" That's even more concise ... and usually effective advise. I certainly like hearing it (and saying it to myself) often ... it works.

That's another example where I don't think any one person can be given credit for the quote because it is so common and obvious.

Sorry, but I don't think I can give you credit for that one. In fact, one of my teammates thinks he invented it. I haven't been able to convince him yet that just because he was the first to say it to our team doesn't mean he "invented" it or should be given "credit" for it.

Catch you later,
Dave

Thanks Dave, the last thing I'm interested in is getting credit for this. What does interest me is being the best coach I can be. I will use any and all information at my disposal to accomplish this.

I'm very comfortable in my own shoes and don't need my ego massaged.

 

[dr_dave]

Thanks Dave, the last thing I'm interested in is getting credit for this. What does interest me is being the best coach I can be. I will use any and all information at my disposal to accomplish this.

I'm very comfortable in my own shoes and don't need my ego massaged.

I'm with you on that one.

And isn't "imitation the sincerest form of flattery." I don't know who first wrote or said this, but I agree with the message.

Regards,
Dave

 

[pt109]

I'm with you on that one.

And isn't "imitation the sincerest form of flattery." I don't know who first wrote or said this, but I agree with the message.

Regards,
Dave

The saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" is copyrighted.
What the hell is wrong with you?



:smile:

 

[Catahula]

Weekly

Love this stuff.
Could we have a Dr. Dave, Jay, C.J. and Bob J. debate as a weekly forum?
You have got to love and appreciate their passion for the game. Right or wrong matters but not as much as the constant search for what is true, the willingness to be open to new and different and caring enough to share it when "it" is found.
Thanks guys.
Tommy