Two-Foul 9 Ball

Two Foul 9 Ball

When playing two foul 9 ball it is much harder to beat a world class player than one foul 9. Unintentional hooks are gone and the world class player rolls out to a shot that he can make 9 out of ten times while you can only make it 2 or 3 times out of 10. If you shoot the shot you will probably miss and he runs out. If you have the world class player shoot he will make it and run out. When this happens in a match the weaker players arm gets a little tighter and his speed starts to fade a just a little. Two or three roll outs in a raced to 11 will get the weaker player beat. At 60 years old I have played both ways and I'm telling you two foul 9 ball is a lot tougher game and it favors shot making and running out versus running a few balls and ducking.

I have beat several bar box champions that are world class racing to 9 or 11 playing one foul 9 ball . One foul 9 ball is more about making the right decisions than being able to make tough shots and running out. Playing these same players I have very little to no chance of beating them playing 2 foul 9 ball. The difference between an open player and a world class player becomes very clear playing two foul 9 ball.

I hope CJ Wiley is right and they bring back two foul 9 ball. Its a much more exciting and skillful game.
 
Great Post my friend, I'll do my best to get this game back up on top.

You are exactly right, anyone can win playing one foul with the right "rolls".....however, in 'Two Shot" this in simply not the case.

There is more strategy in "Two Shot" than any other game (I know this makes one pocket players cringe, but it's true) because you have to protect one ball from 6 pockets....and this requires a LOT of pool knowledge against champion players especially.

Great Post my friend, I'll do my best to get this game back up on top. 'The Game is the Teacher'


TWOFORPOOL said:
When playing two foul 9 ball it is much harder to beat a world class player than one foul 9. Unintentional hooks are gone and the world class player rolls out to a shot that he can make 9 out of ten times while you can only make it 2 or 3 times out of 10. If you shoot the shot you will probably miss and he runs out. If you have the world class player shoot he will make it and run out. When this happens in a match the weaker players arm gets a little tighter and his speed starts to fade a just a little. Two or three roll outs in a raced to 11 will get the weaker player beat. At 60 years old I have played both ways and I'm telling you two foul 9 ball is a lot tougher game and it favors shot making and running out versus running a few balls and ducking.

I have beat several bar box champions that are world class racing to 9 or 11 playing one foul 9 ball . One foul 9 ball is more about making the right decisions than being able to make tough shots and running out. Playing these same players I have very little to no chance of beating them playing 2 foul 9 ball. The difference between an open player and a world class player becomes very clear playing two foul 9 ball.

I hope CJ Wiley is right and they bring back two foul 9 ball. Its a much more exciting and skillful game.
Click to expand...
 
We call it Push Out, 2 fouls. We played 9 ball and Chicago. Chicago is 15 ball rotation, some call it money ball, 7 ways no deductions, all the guys I know are spot shot champions.

After a layoff from pool I run into a friend. He says you should come over and play, that night I go to play with my trusty old Pete Margo Bullet.
We play 9 ball, he breaks, leaves me tough, I push out as I normally would; he shoots and leaves me safe. Of course I push out again. He grabs the cue ball for ball in hand; I told him I pushed no foul. At that point he starts explaining to me about Texas Express and 1 foul rule; ball in hand, the whole enchilada.

My reply was what happened? are pool players quitting school now at 5th grade instead of 10th? This is like no brainer pool. He is also playing at open level speed.

The game is missing a lot of strategy and shot making.
I much rather play push out, when in Rome you do what the Chinese do.

It took about 3 racks to learn 1 foul 9 ball.
 
I like the idea that I can push out after a push out. If I'm playing a banker and he's rolling out to tough banks, I have to make it or break it. Pushing to a different shot cancels out me having to take a shot at a low percentage bank or take a chance they may pocket the ball and run out. I control things after that second push out.

I also agree that the champ can have an advantage over an average player in push out. That's another reason to push after a push out. You control the situation mentally and possibly physically.

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
I like the idea that I can push out after a push out. If I'm playing a banker and he's rolling out to tough banks, I have to make it or break it. Pushing to a different shot cancels out me having to take a shot at a low percentage bank or take a chance they may pocket the ball and run out. I control things after that second push out.

I also agree that the champ can have an advantage over an average player in push out. That's another reason to push after a push out. You control the situation mentally and possibly physically.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

You're talking two fouls by the same man. That's the way I like to play against the sharpshooters like Keith and Cole. I would repush and and now we're both on one and who ever takes the next shot must fulfill the good shot requirements. My repush would force them to play safe or go for a very low percentage shot and no position on the next ball.
If I'm the better shot maker than I would play any two fouls.
 
dabarbr said:
You're talking two fouls by the same man. That's the way I like to play against the sharpshooters like Keith and Cole. I would repush and and now we're both on one and who ever takes the next shot must fulfill the good shot requirements. My repush would force them to play safe or go for a very low percentage shot and no position on the next ball.
If I'm the better shot maker than I would play any two fouls.
Click to expand...

I agree. If I'm the stronger player, I'd want the same thing. If my opponent has an advantage in an area and tries to use it, I'd prefer the re-push strategy.

Players unfamiliar with the 2 foul rules don't realize that one of the moves in pushing out is to play a lock up safe on your shot. This forces "sharpshooters" to push out so you can re-push. They're forced to push to a spot that's a little more user friendly or you're going to push back.

Best,
Mike
 
If the push is such a great idea, why has it neve appeared in any other pool game?
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TWOFORPOOL said:
When playing two foul 9 ball it is much harder to beat a world class player than one foul 9. Unintentional hooks are gone and the world class player rolls out to a shot that he can make 9 out of ten times while you can only make it 2 or 3 times out of 10. If you shoot the shot you will probably miss and he runs out. If you have the world class player shoot he will make it and run out. When this happens in a match the weaker players arm gets a little tighter and his speed starts to fade a just a little. Two or three roll outs in a raced to 11 will get the weaker player beat. At 60 years old I have played both ways and I'm telling you two foul 9 ball is a lot tougher game and it favors shot making and running out versus running a few balls and ducking.

I have beat several bar box champions that are world class racing to 9 or 11 playing one foul 9 ball . One foul 9 ball is more about making the right decisions than being able to make tough shots and running out. Playing these same players I have very little to no chance of beating them playing 2 foul 9 ball. The difference between an open player and a world class player becomes very clear playing two foul 9 ball.

I hope CJ Wiley is right and they bring back two foul 9 ball. Its a much more exciting and skillful game.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Some how no previous post convinced me that 2 foul is more difficult.
The lack of 2 way shots is a biggee
 
klockdoc said:
I played a lot of two shot. the rule we used was the same as the ruling that is used in the current 3 foul game.

You are still on a foul until (you) make a good hit or until that game is over.

Why should MY good hit erase a foul YOU committed?
Click to expand...

But what if you do not make a good hit after the other guy makes his foul? Your way of playing two foul is just like one foul, but you have to make them foul twice to get ball in hand. Your way makes what would now be illegal safeties an almost sure way to get ball in hand instead of taking the shot when the other player pushes out. Once he pushes out or fouls all you do is roll the cue ball to a really hooked position and you most likely get ball in hand off an easy safety. I never saw it played that way and would think that is even worse than one foul as your safeties don't even need to be played off the lowest number ball.

At least in one foul you have to develop some skill to play safe. That way of two foul takes almost no skill to play a safety. It also would eliminate any need to play a great offensive shot once the other guy pushes out.
 
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Two Foul 9 Ball AKA Rollout 9 Ball

Modified Rollout 9 Ball: After a rollout whoever takes the shot has to make a ball or the opposing player gets ball in hand. This would be very exciting to watch. Think this is easy to push out - try it! What do you think CJ Wiley?
 
cueman said:
But what if you do not make a good hit after the other guy makes his foul? Your way of playing two foul is just like one foul, but you have to make them foul twice to get ball in hand. Your way makes what would now be illegal safeties an almost sure way to get ball in hand instead of taking the shot when the other player pushes out. Once he pushes out or fouls all you do is roll the cue ball to a really hooked position and you most likely get ball in hand off an easy safety. I never saw it played that way and would think that is even worse than one foul as your safeties don't even need to be played off the lowest number ball.

At least in one foul you have to develop some skill to play safe. That way of two foul takes almost no skill to play a safety. It also would eliminate any need to play a great offensive shot once the other guy pushes out.
Click to expand...

Safeties in roll out 9 ball are harder since you try and hook your opponent behind a ball he can't jump and leave the object ball within 6" of a pocket where he can't push out without leaving you a good shot or bank.
 
klockdoc said:
I played a lot of two shot. the rule we used was the same as the ruling that is used in the current 3 foul game.

You are still on a foul until (you) make a good hit or until that game is over.

Why should MY good hit erase a foul YOU committed?
Click to expand...

cueman said:
But what if you do not make a good hit after the other guy makes his foul? Your way of playing two foul is just like one foul, but you have to make them foul twice to get ball in hand. Your way makes what would now be illegal safeties an almost sure way to get ball in hand instead of taking the shot when the other player pushes out. Once he pushes out or fouls all you do is roll the cue ball to a really hooked position and you most likely get ball in hand off an easy safety.I'm assuming that you are playing your safety off the proper ball? I never saw it played that way and would think that is even worse than one foul as your safeties don't even need to be played off the lowest number ball.

At least in one foul you have to develop some skill to play safe. That way of two foul takes almost no skill to play a safety. It also would eliminate any need to play a great offensive shot once the other guy pushes out.
Click to expand...

cueman,

I've only played the way klockdoc outlined one time. It was against a guy who was very unsure of himself and thought this gave him some kind of edge. It is a horrible way to play 9 ball but it was profitable that night.

You are correct in your thinking, if your opponent fouled you could hit the lowest numbered ball and play a safety and he would need to hit the ball or give up BIH. It really defeats the purpose of playing 2 foul.

I've stated several times in this thread, including the original post that some did indeed play this way. They were usually weak players afraid of being "trapped" by a better player.

P.S. I've never seen it played where after a BIH was awarded the offending player remained on a foul. I've only seen the foul erased after BIH was awarded.

People play different everywhere.

ONB
 
TWOFORPOOL said:
When playing two foul 9 ball it is much harder to beat a world class player than one foul 9. Unintentional hooks are gone and the world class player rolls out to a shot that he can make 9 out of ten times while you can only make it 2 or 3 times out of 10. If you shoot the shot you will probably miss and he runs out. If you have the world class player shoot he will make it and run out. When this happens in a match the weaker players arm gets a little tighter and his speed starts to fade a just a little. Two or three roll outs in a raced to 11 will get the weaker player beat. At 60 years old I have played both ways and I'm telling you two foul 9 ball is a lot tougher game and it favors shot making and running out versus running a few balls and ducking.

I have beat several bar box champions that are world class racing to 9 or 11 playing one foul 9 ball . One foul 9 ball is more about making the right decisions than being able to make tough shots and running out. Playing these same players I have very little to no chance of beating them playing 2 foul 9 ball. The difference between an open player and a world class player becomes very clear playing two foul 9 ball.

I hope CJ Wiley is right and they bring back two foul 9 ball. Its a much more exciting and skillful game.
Click to expand...

If you are playing world class players even-up in a tournament then you aren't the favorite in any game. If you are gambling and receiving a fairly weighted game then playing two foul wouldn't hurt. The better player needs to be aware when pushing out that you are going to the 7 or 8 ball(or whatever) for a win while he needs to get the 9 ball.

I would never play top players one foul 9 ball. I can pushout just as well as any of them to take advantage of my weight and position at the table.

ONB
 
MapleMan said:
Thanks. Some how no previous post convinced me that 2 foul is more difficult.
The lack of 2 way shots is a biggee
Click to expand...

Pushout said:
And one of the biggest reasons for playing pushout 9 ball.
Click to expand...

The single biggest reason for playing two foul 9 ball is that it's the absolute best way to protect your money. If your opponent misses pocketing a ball and hooks you, you can pushout to something. It also allows you to challenge your opponent and find out his mental makeup. Of course, he can do the same things to you.

ONB
 
Take away the strategic element of any game and it would suffer immensely

Yes, that's similar to what we are looking at doing in future TV matches.....the way pool is played today lacks some of the most important factors.....the "DARE" is certainly one of them.....the only reason pool is not a good TV game is because it's been stripped of it's most entertaining aspects.....take away the strategic element of any game and it would suffer immensely ......pool is the sample example of this. --- 'The GAME is the Teacher'

TWOFORPOOL said:
Modified Rollout 9 Ball: After a rollout whoever takes the shot has to make a ball or the opposing player gets ball in hand. This would be very exciting to watch. Think this is easy to push out - try it! What do you think CJ Wiley?
Click to expand...
 
TWOFORPOOL said:
Modified Rollout 9 Ball: After a rollout whoever takes the shot has to make a ball or the opposing player gets ball in hand. This would be very exciting to watch. Think this is easy to push out - try it! What do you think CJ Wiley?
Click to expand...

How about we skip the rollout and everybody shoots from where the ball lies, any miss results in bih?
 
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