So I Joined the APA.. BIG Mistake

[fast&loose designs]

Ok let's clear the air here. There are a few points that those who are defending the APA and their great organization are making that are WAY too black and white.

First off, there is a BIG difference between calling a forfeit on your opposing team because they went over 23 which takes away ALL their points for that particular night, and brushing a cue ball that leads to ball in hand. That's like saying that the law against public littering is just as offensive as murder, and therefore both should be equally as enforced and equal resources should be alotted to each. Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it is always enforced, and the penalties for each offense shouldn't be the same.

Second, there is a "Board of Directors" that goes over these situations and makes logical decisions based on information given and the intricacies of individual instances. They're supposed to interpret the ridiculous rules in that little booklet, and understand that NOTHING is black and white. There are gray areas. In this case, it WASN'T just a simple case of "he went over 23, he should lose." No, there are other facts involved. One of which being that we are a new team, and there are rules stated in the book that in THOSE cases with new teams, there is more leniency. Apparently not for us.

It seems like the only argument that those of you who worship the APA have is that "Oh! He broke a rule! His fault 100%." You guys seem to think that all rules bear the same amount of weight, regardless of the situation and regardless of the ethics. And more importantly, regardless of whether or not the rule should EVEN EXIST!

I am at fault at the front lines for not realizing my points were going over. Had I KNOWN the penalty was a FULL FORFEIT and receive ZERO points, I would have spent more time planning out my matches. I was informed from the beginning that it would only be the last match that is forfeited. And if you want to sit there and say "well you should have read the book," well understand that not all of us sleep with that APA manual under our pillow and worship it like a bible. Common sense, ethics, and general non-douchebaggery should prevail over nitty rules ANY DAY, and they do, in MY book.

In the 12+ years or so that I've been playing non-league amateur pool at POOL HALLS (not bars), without alcohol on 9 foot tables, I have never run into more than 3 or 4 nitty situations like this. And only EIGHT WEEKS into this league, and I'm already dealing with BS up to my neck. And it happened over a week ago. Has the San Gabriel Valley APA made ANY comment to me, sent an email, a call, ANYTHING? Nope. They stay quiet because otherwise they might have to actually acknowledge the fact that their prized jewel of a league is saturated with assclowns like Captain Tom Tao of Pasadena, CA.

 

[sfleinen]

Ok let's clear the air here. There are a few points that those who are defending the APA and their great organization are making that are WAY too black and white.
[...]

Chris:

I think you were a victim of "The Letter of the Law." It's sad, but too many people these days are born into holding steadfast to the literal writing of a rule or law, instead of gleaning the intent the rule/law is trying to convey.

You see it yourself these days, when you see how disclaimers and laws are spelled out, e.g. when saying that a vehicle needs to be in perfect operating order to receive your inspection sticker, you then read an exhaustive laundry list of all the components of the vehicle that comprise "the vehicle" that need to be in operating order.

Instead of saying merely:

"all components of the vehicle need to be in operating order,"

...you instead see:

"all components of the vehicle, including engine (to include pistons, spark plugs, ignition system, valves, etc.), exhaust (to include muffler, all pipes leading to and from the exhaust manifold of the engine to the muffler, tailpipe, etc.), drivetrain (to include driveshaft, universal joint, bearings, wheels, lugnuts, etc.), safety components (to include headlights, brakelights, reverse/backup lights, turn signals [including the blinkers/relays], horn, etc.), doors (to include the hinges, handle, window opener, lock), cooling system (to include the radiator, hoses, clamps, pressure-relief, etc.), dashboard (to include speedometer, odomoter, turn signal indication, car operating mode indication, etc.)... etc. etc. -- I can go on and on putting more pedantic craziness here, but I'll bet you've seen it spelled out like this!"

The problem is, the Letter of the Law huggers -- seemingly an ever-increasing component of our society -- prefer the latter and will leverage every single word -- or lack of words.

Like I said, if you (not you, but the royal you as in APA), leave food out on the kitchen counter, you're going to attract pests like this.

-Sean

 

[nobcitypool]

Folks:

Assuming that APA's "Equalizer" handicap system is taken at its marketed value -- i.e. it's supposed to equalize the match irrespective of each player's skill level -- I'm not sure it matters if someone put up a "2" and the other team put up a "5".

Correct me if I'm wrong -- don't both teams' captains huddle with each other over the scroresheet in the player match-up process? In other words, if team 999's captain put up a "2" and Chris puts up a "5," isn't team 999's captain present and watching when Chris's pencil is put to paper and writes in the player's name and skill level "5"?

I mean, it's not like Chris was trying to "get one over" on team 999. That team's captain was right there, watching as Chris filled-in his pick to match team 999's "2". But, team 999's invertebrate captain was certainly trying to "get one over" on Chris when he kept his mouth shut, and waited with baited breath until the break shot for the match occurred. It'd be one thing if team 999 didn't know that Chris's team was over the 23 cap, and then later discovered it after the match began (which methinks is the spirt of the "if breakshot has already occurred, then a forfeit is the automatic result" rule). But that's not what apparently happened here -- quite the contrary, and in a very opportunistic way.

There's an old expression that, no matter where you are or who you are -- holds true. And that's "The Spirit of the Law vs. The Letter of the Law":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law

Normal people who are good, social beings adhere to the former (the spirit of the law). The latter -- the letter of the law -- is the scapegoat of those always trying to "get one over" no matter what.

Anytime you're dealing with a handicapped league, you're going to attract the latter. Anytime you leave food out on the kitchen counter, you're going to attract pests.

-Sean <-- who ran large handicapped leagues for years, and swears he'll never do it again

Unfortunately, we now live in a society where we must be diligent regarding the letter of the law. That's why we often use contracts in our business transactions. That's how I explain contracts and documentation to the Sales Reps that work for my company. 99% of the time, we don't need a contract or documentation as we are working with a fair, ethical and reasonable person. However, when we encounter that 1%, we can be extremely happy we had everything in writing.

The APA is a large organization. Large organization must have written rules. They don't always end up being fair and can sometimes favor poor sportsmanship. I don't know about everyone else but my Father told me many times life isn't always fair and it doesn't owe you shit.

If this is that big of a deal to the OP, quit the APA. It's that simple. To me, if aside from this issue, you and your team were enjoying the APA, write this off as a learning experience and move on. I think the people who least enjoy APA are those that are completely caught up in winning a trip to Vegas. I'm more competitive than most but realize the folly of focusing my APA experience on winning a trip to Vegas. There are way too many variables I can't control. I play APA because it offers me a chance each week to compete against other good players. Because it also offers tournaments where I can compete against other good players. Because I can hang out with team members that are friends that I enjoy spending time with. Because it allows me to meet new people that I can potentially play pool with outside of APA.

All of those reasons are more important than going to Vegas by far. If I want to go to Vegas at all, I'll buy a plane ticket and reserve a hotel room. If it is that important to play in a big pool tournament, I'll pay the entry fee at DCC and book a hotel room. If I get that frustrated with APA, I'll simply quit and find other avenues for which to play pool.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Ok let's clear the air here. There are a few points that those who are defending the APA and their great organization are making that are WAY too black and white.

First off, there is a BIG difference between calling a forfeit on your opposing team because they went over 23 which takes away ALL their points for that particular night, and brushing a cue ball that leads to ball in hand. That's like saying that the law against public littering is just as offensive as murder, and therefore both should be equally as enforced and equal resources should be alotted to each. Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it is always enforced, and the penalties for each offense shouldn't be the same.

Second, there is a "Board of Directors" that goes over these situations and makes logical decisions based on information given and the intricacies of individual instances. They're supposed to interpret the ridiculous rules in that little booklet, and understand that NOTHING is black and white. There are gray areas. In this case, it WASN'T just a simple case of "he went over 23, he should lose." No, there are other facts involved. One of which being that we are a new team, and there are rules stated in the book that in THOSE cases with new teams, there is more leniency. Apparently not for us.

It seems like the only argument that those of you who worship the APA have is that "Oh! He broke a rule! His fault 100%." You guys seem to think that all rules bear the same amount of weight, regardless of the situation and regardless of the ethics. And more importantly, regardless of whether or not the rule should EVEN EXIST!

I am at fault at the front lines for not realizing my points were going over. Had I KNOWN the penalty was a FULL FORFEIT and receive ZERO points, I would have spent more time planning out my matches. I was informed from the beginning that it would only be the last match that is forfeited. And if you want to sit there and say "well you should have read the book," well understand that not all of us sleep with that APA manual under our pillow and worship it like a bible. Common sense, ethics, and general non-douchebaggery should prevail over nitty rules ANY DAY, and they do, in MY book.

In the 12+ years or so that I've been playing non-league amateur pool at POOL HALLS (not bars), without alcohol on 9 foot tables, I have never run into more than 3 or 4 nitty situations like this. And only EIGHT WEEKS into this league, and I'm already dealing with BS up to my neck. And it happened over a week ago. Has the San Gabriel Valley APA made ANY comment to me, sent an email, a call, ANYTHING? Nope. They stay quiet because otherwise they might have to actually acknowledge the fact that their prized jewel of a league is saturated with assclowns like Captain Tom Tao of Pasadena, CA.

My point about brushing the cue ball was an example used to illustrate that rules are rules. You cannot pick and choose the ones you want enforced. It is the responsibility of the captain to be aware of these rules. Yeah sure the opposing team could have been cool and allowed you to re-throw but they were under no obligation to do so and YOU shouldn't be pissed at APA or the team you played against. You should be pissed at yourself for not following the clearly defined 23 rule.

 

[Billiardsfan]

I will try not to sound too much like an a hole here, but you put up in this order a 4, 5, 7, 5, and then you unkowingly put up another five thinking you are not risking the 23 rule? You are at 21 and you expect everyone to assume that it is just an oversight? I realize you are not going to like this comment, but it looks like maybe you were pushing this to see if you could get away with it and really demolish this other team and you got caught. I think someone else posted that they would like to see this other team captains version of the events.

 

[fast&loose designs]

I will try not to sound too much like an a hole here, but you put up in this order a 4, 5, 7, 5, and then you unkowingly put up another five thinking you are not risking the 23 rule? You are at 21 and you expect everyone to assume that it is just an oversight? I realize you are not going to like this comment, but it looks like maybe you were pushing this to see if you could get away with it and really demolish this other team and you got caught. I think someone else posted that they would like to see this other team captains version of the events.

You can think what you'd like. Truth is that I didn't know. Of course, there's no way I can convince you of this. But ask yourself this: Would I really be the kind of a-hole that does that and THEN wants to quit APA? It's the a-holes that STAY so they can do that over and over. Those who know me personally know my character and know that I wouldn't do that.

 

[cuesblues]

Ok let's clear the air here. There are a few points that those who are defending the APA and their great organization are making that are WAY too black and white.

First off, there is a BIG difference between calling a forfeit on your opposing team because they went over 23 which takes away ALL their points for that particular night, and brushing a cue ball that leads to ball in hand. That's like saying that the law against public littering is just as offensive as murder, and therefore both should be equally as enforced and equal resources should be alotted to each. Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it is always enforced, and the penalties for each offense shouldn't be the same.

Second, there is a "Board of Directors" that goes over these situations and makes logical decisions based on information given and the intricacies of individual instances. They're supposed to interpret the ridiculous rules in that little booklet, and understand that NOTHING is black and white. There are gray areas. In this case, it WASN'T just a simple case of "he went over 23, he should lose." No, there are other facts involved. One of which being that we are a new team, and there are rules stated in the book that in THOSE cases with new teams, there is more leniency. Apparently not for us.

It seems like the only argument that those of you who worship the APA have is that "Oh! He broke a rule! His fault 100%." You guys seem to think that all rules bear the same amount of weight, regardless of the situation and regardless of the ethics. And more importantly, regardless of whether or not the rule should EVEN EXIST!

I am at fault at the front lines for not realizing my points were going over. Had I KNOWN the penalty was a FULL FORFEIT and receive ZERO points, I would have spent more time planning out my matches. I was informed from the beginning that it would only be the last match that is forfeited. And if you want to sit there and say "well you should have read the book," well understand that not all of us sleep with that APA manual under our pillow and worship it like a bible. Common sense, ethics, and general non-douchebaggery should prevail over nitty rules ANY DAY, and they do, in MY book.

In the 12+ years or so that I've been playing non-league amateur pool at POOL HALLS (not bars), without alcohol on 9 foot tables, I have never run into more than 3 or 4 nitty situations like this. And only EIGHT WEEKS into this league, and I'm already dealing with BS up to my neck. And it happened over a week ago. Has the San Gabriel Valley APA made ANY comment to me, sent an email, a call, ANYTHING? Nope. They stay quiet because otherwise they might have to actually acknowledge the fact that their prized jewel of a league is saturated with assclowns like Captain Tom Tao of Pasadena, CA.

Tom Tao must be some kind of a badass, because I heard him telling people that
you're ducking him, and you can't beat him, even with the 7-ball><:smile:

 

[Billiardsfan]

To be clear, I do not know you or this other captain. I can only assume that one, or both of you are being less than cool. We do not know if maybe there was bad blood between you two prior, or if this guys is like this with other teams, or if you have done this before. These are just things that could easily be behind what happened. I do not know, just saying what it appears like. This other captian was a major Richard Cranium. It only appears that way and that you were obviosly not paying attention at best. I hope your next billiards adventure is more satisfying.

 

[fast&loose designs]

To be clear, I do not know you or this other captain. I can only assume that one, or both of you are being less than cool. We do not know if maybe there was bad blood between you two prior, or if this guys is like this with other teams, or if you have done this before. These are just things that could easily be behind what happened. I do not know, just saying what it appears like. This other captian was a major Richard Cranium. It only appears that way and that you were obviosly not paying attention at best. I hope your next billiards adventure is more satisfying.

We had never met. Never met him, or his teammates, and no one on my team knew him. And even if there WAS bad blood, no excuse for being an assclown, ever.

Being a nit and sticking to rules rather than ethics is another reason why everyone in the US sues everyone else. "Oh, I tripped on your rose bush that was sticking out 1 foot into the public sidewalk and sprained my ankle. Suing you for $1.2 million." "Your son pushed my son in the sand. Expect a call from my lawyers." Those kinds of situations happen 24/7. Sure, they're within the law and abiding by what is written - but is it RIGHT? I'll go to sleep knowing I didn't try to win on a piece of paper rather than on the table.

 

[Runnintable]

Do you play straight pool

I assume you do not play straight pool, do to your counting prowess. :sorry:

Chris, that's an unfortunate way to learn the APA's zero tolerance of their 23 point rule.

From what I understand the 23 pt. rule is the backbone of their handicap system.

So, I doubt you and/or your team ever had any chance of leniency.

 

[lorider]

Ok let's clear the air here. There are a few points that those who are defending the APA and their great organization are making that are WAY too black and white.

First off, there is a BIG difference between calling a forfeit on your opposing team because they went over 23 which takes away ALL their points for that particular night, and brushing a cue ball that leads to ball in hand. That's like saying that the law against public littering is just as offensive as murder, and therefore both should be equally as enforced and equal resources should be alotted to each. Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it is always enforced, and the penalties for each offense shouldn't be the same.

Second, there is a "Board of Directors" that goes over these situations and makes logical decisions based on information given and the intricacies of individual instances. They're supposed to interpret the ridiculous rules in that little booklet, and understand that NOTHING is black and white. There are gray areas. In this case, it WASN'T just a simple case of "he went over 23, he should lose." No, there are other facts involved. One of which being that we are a new team, and there are rules stated in the book that in THOSE cases with new teams, there is more leniency. Apparently not for us.

It seems like the only argument that those of you who worship the APA have is that "Oh! He broke a rule! His fault 100%." You guys seem to think that all rules bear the same amount of weight, regardless of the situation and regardless of the ethics. And more importantly, regardless of whether or not the rule should EVEN EXIST!

I am at fault at the front lines for not realizing my points were going over. Had I KNOWN the penalty was a FULL FORFEIT and receive ZERO points, I would have spent more time planning out my matches. I was informed from the beginning that it would only be the last match that is forfeited. And if you want to sit there and say "well you should have read the book," well understand that not all of us sleep with that APA manual under our pillow and worship it like a bible. Common sense, ethics, and general non-douchebaggery should prevail over nitty rules ANY DAY, and they do, in MY book.

In the 12+ years or so that I've been playing non-league amateur pool at POOL HALLS (not bars), without alcohol on 9 foot tables, I have never run into more than 3 or 4 nitty situations like this. And only EIGHT WEEKS into this league, and I'm already dealing with BS up to my neck. And it happened over a week ago. Has the San Gabriel Valley APA made ANY comment to me, sent an email, a call, ANYTHING? Nope. They stay quiet because otherwise they might have to actually acknowledge the fact that their prized jewel of a league is saturated with assclowns like Captain Tom Tao of Pasadena, CA.

it seems to me your 1st post was simply venting your frustration over a league incident...been guilty of doing that my self on here.:grin-square:

your tone in your 2nd post don't exactly jive with your 1st post.after most posters came on here stating ...a rule is a rule you now seem to be trying to come across as a victim of a bad rule being thrown in your face by an ass hole .

in your 1st post you state that for the most part your 8 weeks in league has been pretty good aside from the occasional gripe about some ones handicap which you down play by stating that its par for the course in any handicap structure..

now you state you are up to your neck in bull shit with a league saturated with ass clowns like capt tom .

from my perspective it seems like the following scenario occurred.

you just having fun beating the crap out of the other team 51-29 after 4 matches. you decide to go for the kill throwing out a 5 against their 2. capt tom sits there paitiently waiting for the lag so he can fix your ass.

now you want to say ...hey we are a new team cut us some slack ! if i had known i was gonna be penalized this bad for going over 23 i would have checked to make sure we was not over 23 i would have done my job and checked the handicaps before going for the kill. you were up 51-29...even if you threw your 2 against there 2 and lost 20-0...which i highly doubt but is possible your team still would have won.

fess up chris... this is the way it went down aint it ?:grin-square:

 

[fast&loose designs]

it seems to me your 1st post was simply venting your frustration over a league incident...been guilty of doing that my self on here.:grin-square:

your tone in your 2nd post don't exactly jive with your 1st post.after most posters came on here stating ...a rule is a rule you now seem to be trying to come across as a victim of a bad rule being thrown in your face by an ass hole .

in your 1st post you state that for the most part your 8 weeks in league has been pretty good aside from the occasional gripe about some ones handicap which you down play by stating that its par for the course in any handicap structure..

now you state you are up to your neck in bull shit with a league saturated with ass clowns like capt tom .

from my perspective it seems like the following scenario occurred.

you just having fun beating the crap out of the other team 51-29 after 4 matches. you decide to go for the kill throwing out a 5 against their 2. capt tom sits there paitiently waiting for the lag so he can fix your ass.

now you want to say ...hey we are a new team cut us some slack ! if i had known i was gonna be penalized this bad for going over 23 i would have checked to make sure we was not over 23 i would have done my job and checked the handicaps before going for the kill. you were up 51-29...even if you threw your 2 against there 2 and lost 20-0...which i highly doubt but is possible your team still would have won.

fess up chris... this is the way it went down aint it ?:grin-square:

Haha. Good insight. I think you're reading too far in. You sound like a conspiracy theorist. No, I had no intention of going over. In fact, I was originally going to use my 2 because he wanted to play badly. But instead I used my 5 (Ernesto), because he hadn't played in 3 weeks. It was a last minute decision. Small mistake with a huge, unfair consequence.

 

[trob]

Haha. Good insight. I think you're reading too far in. You sound like a conspiracy theorist. No, I had no intention of going over. In fact, I was originally going to use my 2 because he wanted to play badly. But instead I used my 5 (Ernesto), because he hadn't played in 3 weeks. It was a last minute decision. Small mistake with a huge, unfair consequence.

I see both sides man. Is it the rule .. yep.. Is he a douche bag for calling it like he did YUP lol Just remember it if you play him again. He would have to walk the straight and narrow with me because I would be all over him. If that's they he wants to play it I would.

 

[Double-Dave]

Seems like as good a place as any to share a fun story, allthough to understand it fully I guess you would have to know the people personally,
and really you should have been there. But hey, I do the best I can.

2 guys met in a certain tournament run by a local league organisation. Player A, let's call him Alex is for sure in the top 3 strongest players.
Player B, let's call him Theo is not in the top 20. They were playing a race to 4 or 5 which means Alex will win 95% of the time.

Alex said to Theo, go ahead and break basically giving up the coin toss. Theo thought to himself, f*** it I
will play a safety break (the game is 8-ball) and he did. Alex became pretty upset that Theo would do
that after he gave him the first break and simply whacked at the balls. Theo really calmly proceeded to tell Alex
"You did not call a group (solids or stripes) so this was a foul" and took ball in hand.

No you might be thinking at this point, that's just the kind of thing this thread is about....well, no.
Everyone watching was rolling on the floor pissing themselves laughing, basically declaring Theo to being endboss.

Some people (I might have been involved) even went so far as to make a T-Shirt for Theo saying "Foul, you did not call a group" for the next time
Theo and Alex played. Not everyone in league is a complete douchebag and takes everything so serious. I try to be like that.

gr. Dave

 

[Celophanewrap]

Personally speaking I will let some thing go during league play. For example, if my opponent forgot to mark the pocket in 8ball when the intention was obvious. However, I do not have any sort of expectation that somebody would give me the benefit of the doubt if I were to be the person who forgot to mark the pocket. Furthermore, if I did have that expectation it would be totally unfair to the whole league.

Bottom line. The OP shit the bed and doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions. This has nothing to do with APA. Every single type of organized pool playing is going to have rules.

I should have been clearer, I did mean that beyond weekly play I expect exactly what I give. During the week I'm pretty lax, it's all good

 

[fast&loose designs]

THE PLOT THICKENS

So I just got off the phone with one of the league reps. Apparently, Captain Tom Tao of the USS IThinkI'mAPoolPlayer filed a complaint against ME as well. He claimed that I was threatening him and his players after he called me out on the 23 rule. Unfortunately for Tom, none of his players admitted to being threatened. However, this sorry excuse for a complaint didn't do me any favors apparently either, since they ruled in his favor and I STILL got zero points.

HOWEVER, it is also apparent that the fact that Cpt Tao SIGNED his form AND mine stating that I won 51-44 (since I had 51 as of match 4, he had 29, and he gained 15 points from the 5th match). Apparently that little form actually means something, and if signed, is clearly important. If somehow, for some reason, this SIGNED document is not considered worthy of my 51 points, I don't know what is. If the APA is going to stick to their nitty rules everywhere, then it only stands to reason that a signed document should hold TONS of weight (although I don't know if it's even written anywhere in the APA's bible).

I'll know by tonight or tomorrow if that signed document gets me my 51 EARNED points. By this time I'm so out of energy that if it doesn't, I won't be surprised.

 

[Wedge]

The APA

While I am not a big fan of handicapped Leagues I do play in a APA Masters League where there are no handicaps. Having said that, I believe if the APA would not be around half of the pool rooms in the country would go out of business! The APA generates a lot of revenue for pool rooms on league nights. I am grateful they are around!!!

Wedge

 

[lorider]

THE PLOT THICKENS

So I just got off the phone with one of the league reps. Apparently, Captain Tom Tao of the USS IThinkI'mAPoolPlayer filed a complaint against ME as well. He claimed that I was threatening him and his players after he called me out on the 23 rule. Unfortunately for Tom, none of his players admitted to being threatened. However, this sorry excuse for a complaint didn't do me any favors apparently either, since they ruled in his favor and I STILL got zero points.

HOWEVER, it is also apparent that the fact that Cpt Tao SIGNED his form AND mine stating that I won 51-44 (since I had 51 as of match 4, he had 29, and he gained 15 points from the 5th match). Apparently that little form actually means something, and if signed, is clearly important. If somehow, for some reason, this SIGNED document is not considered worthy of my 51 points, I don't know what is. If the APA is going to stick to their nitty rules everywhere, then it only stands to reason that a signed document should hold TONS of weight (although I don't know if it's even written anywhere in the APA's bible).

I'll know by tonight or tomorrow if that signed document gets me my 51 EARNED points. By this time I'm so out of energy that if it doesn't, I won't be surprised.

chris..... this right here is an example of why many on this forum disdain leagues period ..let alone apa.

i have let opposing teams disregard the rule several times during regular session but i have never asked my opponents to allow me to circumvent the rule. its supposed to be a fun night out with friends just playing pool. yes ..during play offs or higher level i expect every one to adhere to the 23 rule. in fact last 8 ball ltc's i did the same thing capt tom did. when my opponents threw out for the 5th match i totald up and they were over. i waited ..not only until they lagged but i waited until the 1st rack was broken.

i then got up and went to the lo showing him the score sheet. he said it was an auto forfiet. there was no totaling up points. they forfieted all points. does that make me an ass hole...probably in your eyes if i had done it to you. :grin-square:

after playing for 2 years i decide i was going to take over our team with the goal of making it to vegas. i got a couple of new players and got serious every week.....but not as serious as you have apparently taken this issue you are involved in. we did make it to vegas and now that i am able to say i been there ...done that i am back to just enjoying pool every time i go play league.

take last night. i am playing a young kid who....comes across as thinking he is better than he really is.

i win the 1st rack. he wins what seems like me 3 in a row and after he sinks the 8 comes around smiling holding out his hand for a hand shake. i shake his hand and say good shooting but in the back of my mind i am thinking wtf ?.. i thought he was a 5....then i say to my self .. i guess he dropped down .

as i start putting up my cues his score keeper said ..hey hold on my player still needs one more win. well we proceed to play again. i win the next 3 in a row winning the match. i go to shake his hand and he turns his head and walks away. now some people would get irate about his lack of sports man ship. i just laugh such crap off shit happens.

bottom line here is you screwed up and the opposing captain took advantage of it.

according to your view point the opposing capt came across as a douche bag.

the way you are carrying on here about whether you deserve those points or not is making you look as guilty as he seems to be.

be the bigger man here and just chalk it up to lesson learned about paying attention to match ups . we all screw up from time to time...how we react to those screw ups define who we are as a person.

 

[fast&loose designs]

chris..... this right here is an example of why many on this forum disdain leagues period ..let alone apa.

i have let opposing teams disregard the rule several times during regular session but i have never asked my opponents to allow me to circumvent the rule. its supposed to be a fun night out with friends just playing pool. yes ..during play offs or higher level i expect every one to adhere to the 23 rule. in fact last 8 ball ltc's i did the same thing capt tom did. when my opponents threw out for the 5th match i totald up and they were over. i waited ..not only until they lagged but i waited until the 1st rack was broken.

i then got up and went to the lo showing him the score sheet. he said it was an auto forfiet. there was no totaling up points. they forfieted all points. does that make me an ass hole...probably in your eyes if i had done it to you. :grin-square:

after playing for 2 years i decide i was going to take over our team with the goal of making it to vegas. i got a couple of new players and got serious every week.....but not as serious as you have apparently taken this issue you are involved in. we did make it to vegas and now that i am able to say i been there ...done that i am back to just enjoying pool every time i go play league.

take last night. i am playing a young kid who....comes across as thinking he is better than he really is.

i win the 1st rack. he wins what seems like me 3 in a row and after he sinks the 8 comes around smiling holding out his hand for a hand shake. i shake his hand and say good shooting but in the back of my mind i am thinking wtf ?.. i thought he was a 5....then i say to my self .. i guess he dropped down .

as i start putting up my cues his score keeper said ..hey hold on my player still needs one more win. well we proceed to play again. i win the next 3 in a row winning the match. i go to shake his hand and he turns his head and walks away. now some people would get irate about his lack of sports man ship. i just laugh such crap off shit happens.

bottom line here is you screwed up and the opposing captain took advantage of it.

according to your view point the opposing capt came across as a douche bag.

the way you are carrying on here about whether you deserve those points or not is making you look as guilty as he seems to be.

be the bigger man here and just chalk it up to lesson learned about paying attention to match ups . we all screw up from time to time...how we react to those screw ups define who we are as a person.

With all due respect, you weren't there and can't see all the angles. Everyone in my division, especially the long time members, know that Tom is an a-hole, no denying it. He acted like an ass. There are ways to win, and there is this way. Yes, I would probably think you are an a-hole as well, if you did to me what Tom did. Everyone I know that knows him has said they aren't surprised he did what he did, but would 't have done it to me. I wouldn't do it because I get no enjoyment from winning that way. Not only is it nitty, it creates unnecessary tension between players and teams, and at that point it's no longer fun OR competitive.

 

[Celophanewrap]

THE PLOT THICKENS

So I just got off the phone with one of the league reps. Apparently, Captain Tom Tao of the USS IThinkI'mAPoolPlayer filed a complaint against ME as well. He claimed that I was threatening him and his players after he called me out on the 23 rule. Unfortunately for Tom, none of his players admitted to being threatened. However, this sorry excuse for a complaint didn't do me any favors apparently either, since they ruled in his favor and I STILL got zero points.

HOWEVER, it is also apparent that the fact that Cpt Tao SIGNED his form AND mine stating that I won 51-44 (since I had 51 as of match 4, he had 29, and he gained 15 points from the 5th match). Apparently that little form actually means something, and if signed, is clearly important. If somehow, for some reason, this SIGNED document is not considered worthy of my 51 points, I don't know what is. If the APA is going to stick to their nitty rules everywhere, then it only stands to reason that a signed document should hold TONS of weight (although I don't know if it's even written anywhere in the APA's bible).

I'll know by tonight or tomorrow if that signed document gets me my 51 EARNED points. By this time I'm so out of energy that if it doesn't, I won't be surprised.

And again another example of rule application. Once that sheet is signed all opportunities for meaningful debate are gone. If Tom Tao from Tacoma signed the sheet it meant that he was agreeing to everything on them.
Just for fun send in a sportsmanship complaint against Rotten Tom and watch his head explode.
The only thing that would make this better is if either one of these teams has qualifed for the NTC. If Sinister Tom's team has qualified, when you make your complaint be sure to demand the he receive an immediate suspension for 45 days from all APA competition.

Lets' get Rotten Tom on AZ to respond, it's been a while since we've had an all out APA donnybrook, could be fun