Accountability is on you. The 23 rules is in the rule book and if you had bothered to do your job as captain this would never have happened.
So I Joined the APA.. BIG Mistake
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Accountability is on you. The 23 rules is in the rule book and if you had bothered to do your job as captain this would never have happened.
OK.
Here's the deal. You are the captain. The buck stops with you. It is YOUR responsibility to know how many points you have thrown, and how many that leaves you. No matter what else is going on.
You made a mistake. $hit happens. Own it. Learn from it. Don't let it happen again. Because it is YOUR responsibility. Whether or not the opposing team captain is a jerk or not.
A couple years ago, I cost my team at that time bonus points for a few weeks, because I had a problem with my checking account, and my checks kept bouncing. So as a result, we lost three points each week till I fixed it. That was on me. No one else. Did I like it, no, because I made it good. But that was the way the rules were set up, for everybody, so I had to own it, and deal with it.
Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to choose which rules we play by, whether we agree with them or not. You can stand here and shake your fist in principal, and hopefully this gets it out of your system. There are more than a few rules that I don't like, this one high on the list. But I'm not in charge, nor are you.
This seems like it will probably sour you on playing APA now, and that's a shame. Especially since it appears that you had seven weeks that went well, and one week that didn't. (Due to a mistake on your part.). I find that I enjoy myself far more often than I don't, so I call that a win, for me. Its too bad this will spoil the many good weeks you already have had in league....
Again, I wouldn't have let it get this far, if you were playing me. Most captains wouldn't, certainly outside of playoffs or LTCs. This was completely under your control, so it stings more.
I wish you luck, and hope you and your players have fun playing pool, whether its with APA or not.
The only person I know that hates the APA more than the OP, is you
Ok, maybe me, but you're a close second !!!PS: before I get bashed, I just don't like the playing rules or the format, and those are kinda important. Sitting for 3 hours before even picking up a cue is bothersome and boring. So, the last time I played APA, it was either I shoot first or second, or find someone else.... they agreed, and I found myself not "hating" it as much.
Full disclosure-I did not read every comment so may be duplicating someone else's point(s).
That said, I agree with the principal of what you are saying, Chris, but not the way you are saying it. I think you take it too far in blaming the rules for your mistake and for (seemingly) to be asking for special consideration after the fact.
Simply put, the other Captain was mean spirited and wrong not to tell you you would be going over the 23 before the break. If your description is accurate he would appear to have been hovering like a vulture waiting for the break so he could spring this on you. I would hope that he does not win any Sportsmanship awards.
I also think that the APA has a responsiblity to render a verdict along with a clear outline of the rule(s) involved and how they came to the verdict they did.
No one is obligated to bend, stretch or break the rules to accommodate your honest mistake.
That said, I agree with the principal of what you are saying, Chris, but not the way you are saying it. I think you take it too far in blaming the rules for your mistake and for (seemingly) to be asking for special consideration after the fact.
Simply put, the other Captain was mean spirited and wrong not to tell you you would be going over the 23 before the break. If your description is accurate he would appear to have been hovering like a vulture waiting for the break so he could spring this on you. I would hope that he does not win any Sportsmanship awards.
I also think that the APA has a responsiblity to render a verdict along with a clear outline of the rule(s) involved and how they came to the verdict they did.
No one is obligated to bend, stretch or break the rules to accommodate your honest mistake.
"A league that prioritizes point numbers over actual play on the table isn't for me."
You probably won't like Valley or the BCA.
"Half of them have told me they will quit if I do. That's called loyalty and friendship."
If that's true, be loyal and a friend to them, suck it up and at least finish the season.
Only 2-points for winning a game of APA 9-ball, 1-point for the 1-8, and no push after the break.
No incentive to ram the nine><:smile:
Also, the game is boring as you run up to 75-points 1-point at a time, doesn't even feel like 9-ball.
I think this "double trouble" was just a way for the LO's to "double" their income.
It's really 9-ball by name only. It would have been more accurate to have been called rotation, but 9-ball is a more popular name.
Don't blame the barbox
The APA is not for everyone.I personally don't play APA and probably never will again but other leagues are still enjoyable.
If you live in an area with a good BCA travelling league (skilled players) then a BB league can be great.For me I like to play a BCA in-house league,although not as challenging as the travelling league,I dont have to deal with going to different bars and bad attitudes and what I call the APA mentality that has crept into even the BCA league to some degree.
The APA is not for everyone.I personally don't play APA and probably never will again but other leagues are still enjoyable.
If you live in an area with a good BCA travelling league (skilled players) then a BB league can be great.For me I like to play a BCA in-house league,although not as challenging as the travelling league,I dont have to deal with going to different bars and bad attitudes and what I call the APA mentality that has crept into even the BCA league to some degree.
You're right. The regular 9 ball makes a lot more sense where one player can run 8 balls, get on the wrong side of the 9 and rattle the pocket. Or one player is getting killed, opponent misses and happens to leave an easy combo on the 9.
The APA version of 9 ball is a pool game just the same as regular 9 ball is. In APA Master, they play regular 9 ball if that is more to your liking. I actually like the APA version of 9 ball as it rewards overall good play. There are some slightly different strategies as well.
Valley has a similar deal in 8 ball. One point for each ball, 3 points for the 8 ball. I do not know for sure but I suspect these point type approaches make it easier to handicap.
Once again, if it isn't for you, just don't play it. If you love pool, I think you should quit bashing the leagues. If not for the leagues, pool essentially dies in this country. Most bars with multiple bar boxes have league play in them justifying the existence of those bar boxes. Many, if not most, pool halls have leagues playing in them. Without the leagues, more pool halls go out of business and most bars take the bar boxes out and replace them with Golden Tees or some other revenue generating device. Pool tables take up a lot of costly real estate in a building and better have quite a bit of play to offer return on investment or they're gone.
The only person I know that hates the APA more than the OP, is you
PS: before I get bashed, I just don't like the playing rules or the format, and those are kinda important. Sitting for 3 hours before even picking up a cue is bothersome and boring. So, the last time I played APA, it was either I shoot first or second, or find someone else.... they agreed, and I found myself not "hating" it as much.
Oh RJ I don't hate the APA and I did play in it for a couple years, but it is kind of the little league of pool. It's a good league for getting started playing pool and is good for the pool halls business. That being said I'm not sure if there will ever be the perfect league scenario for all players. Leagues are funny and taken WAY to seriously by most, IMO!!
Leagues are a double-edged sword, Nob. I know of a few pool halls where the leagues almost put the pool hall *out of business*, because:
1. The tables were commandeered by league play and the league players demanded that the sides of the tables be opened up (read: free).
2. The leagues players were the biggest cheapskates in the whole place -- not patronizing the pool hall's other services, not ordering a meal or eating, only drinking water or seltzer (with lemon) -- and demanding that the water/seltzer/lemon be "free."
3. Requesting (read: strongarming) that the jukebox or other music services be stopped "because this was a competition / tournament atmosphere."
4. Not partaking in the pool hall's pro shop "because I can get it much cheaper at eBay / Amazon / etc."
The paying customers were the ones that paid for table time, ate the food, had some drinks, played music, and bought things from the pro shop. And when the owner/proprietor started grumbling about not signing on for another league season, the league players had the nerve to tell the owner/proprietor, "you need us -- we're your best customers!"
Granted, not all leagues in all areas are like that. But I've seen more than a few places in the situation I describe above, which is their APA nights.
-Sean
Sean, understood. I own a bar in the Birmingham area with 9 bar boxes. Some apa teams spend like you can't believe. Others want a glass of water. All in all, they're worth it, at least for us. If you can get apa in there 4 or 5 nights per week, it covers your fixed costs for the month and then some. Whatever other traffic you get is profit.
The fact they demand all those things is just a sign of what other bars and pool halls offer to get their business. In Indianapolis, the supply of pool tables versus apa demand favors the pool tables. Most places don't open up the tables. In Birmingham, some bars open up the tables and pay the nightly fees for their home teams in order to attract them. Lots of competition for the league teams there. All that makes my point though. Without league teams, we would have 2 or 3 tables instead of 9.
The fact they demand all those things is just a sign of what other bars and pool halls offer to get their business. In Indianapolis, the supply of pool tables versus apa demand favors the pool tables. Most places don't open up the tables. In Birmingham, some bars open up the tables and pay the nightly fees for their home teams in order to attract them. Lots of competition for the league teams there. All that makes my point though. Without league teams, we would have 2 or 3 tables instead of 9.
There were some things in APA 8-ball that I kind of liked, such as the race to 5 or 6 vs. round robin, but 9-ball was like work.
I understand the notion of pool dying without leagues, and I have felt that way throughout my vast league experience.
Since I pulled back from leagues, I can see that leagues are just helping pool hang-on by a thread.
Playing 5-games a night per week in a bar league is barely playing pool anyway.
That's what I have been told by numerous bar owners.
Leagues pays all the bills, and whatever is made beside the leagues is profit.
Ken
Banks
Banned
Just as importantly, bodies attract bodies. If the bar is empty, it's not very inviting to others, especially those that aren't out often or are new to the bar/area. When they open the door and seen a dozen or more people hanging out around the tables, drinking, chatting and having fun, that's obviously the place to be. Where I hang out, there are about 6 other bars within a couple of blocks. When league is going on, the only other place that really competes is a small bar next door that has "naughty bingo" or trivia or something. It's not always real busy, but the difference is easily seen.
Taking a look at the e-mailed spreadsheet from last Summer's in-house BCA league at a nearby hall.. there were 14 teams, which had been increased to 4-person teams(8b is always 5), that means you had at least 56 people in there from about 7-10 for league alone. Some people arrived early, others stayed late. Many ordered food and drinks. Add to that whatever groups came in for food, drinks or games and it makes for a happy owner.
. Leagues are funny and taken WAY to seriously by most, IMO!!
Yep, I agree... but please, put yourself in the most category.... you did as well
Yep, I agree... but please, put yourself in the most category.... you did as well
Your right I did. NEVER AGAIN my friend, never ever.
Leagues are a double-edged sword, Nob. I know of a few pool halls where the leagues almost put the pool hall *out of business*, because:
1. The tables were commandeered by league play and the league players demanded that the sides of the tables be opened up (read: free).
2. The leagues players were the biggest cheapskates in the whole place -- not patronizing the pool hall's other services, not ordering a meal or eating, only drinking water or seltzer (with lemon) -- and demanding that the water/seltzer/lemon be "free."
3. Requesting (read: strongarming) that the jukebox or other music services be stopped "because this was a competition / tournament atmosphere."
4. Not partaking in the pool hall's pro shop "because I can get it much cheaper at eBay / Amazon / etc."
The paying customers were the ones that paid for table time, ate the food, had some drinks, played music, and bought things from the pro shop. And when the owner/proprietor started grumbling about not signing on for another league season, the league players had the nerve to tell the owner/proprietor, "you need us -- we're your best customers!"
Granted, not all leagues in all areas are like that. But I've seen more than a few places in the situation I describe above, which is their APA nights.
-Sean
Wow....just the opposite here. In fact, we fit the stereotype of the "drinking league player" here. Admittedly, not everybody. But the rooms we play in do FAR better on league night than the other weeknights with no league. And our people feed the jukebox, too.
We don't have anyone doing the pro-shop thing here, sadly, but we had a player that had a huge cue selection, and could get anything anyone wanted that he didn't happen to have. He was very reasonable, and would also have (or get) most basic accessories, gloves, whatever brand of chalk you wanted, etc). He also had a lathe and did tip replacement for us. And he got quite a bit of casual business from our league players, especially given he was doing it as a hobby, and a service to us. Sadly, he moved away recently, for which I still haven't forgiven him!
He was also one of our better players, and would always take the time to help anyone who would ask. Sigh. The point being that we will buy local if its reasonable.