Did Souquet try to do the right thing?

punter

punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, there's lot's of threads on the CSI Invitational that contain wild speculation...

Well, here's another one.

Ralf is taking a lot of heat for having his actions help cause this situation, many thinking there is more to it than just plane scheduling problems.

So did Ralf just try to do the right thing by thinking that Dennis didn't try his best and thus influenced who would continue from their group? Did he try to do the honorable thing and let the guy that would have continued go on, if Dennis had beaten him?
I don't know but it makes as much sense as him forfeiting because he couldn't change his plane. And IMO Ralf has always been a standup guy, so I would hate to see him get blamed for trying to do the right thing.
 
punter said:
Ok, there's lot's of threads on the CSI Invitational that contain wild speculation...

Well, here's another one.

Ralf is taking a lot of heat for having his actions help cause this situation, many thinking there is more to it than just plane scheduling problems.

So did Ralf just try to do the right thing by thinking that Dennis didn't try his best and thus influenced who would continue from their group? Did he try to do the honorable thing and let the guy that would have continued go on, if Dennis had beaten him?
I don't know but it makes as much sense as him forfeiting because he couldn't change his plane. And IMO Ralf has always been a standup guy, so I would hate to see him get blamed for trying to do the right thing.
Click to expand...


Ralph's explanation was that it would have cost him too much money to change the flight. Why he originally booked it the way he did, I do not know.

If you have traveled at all in the last couple of years you will know that if you change a flight at the last second you basically lose your original ticket and pay through the nose for a new one. Yes, often times there are a few tickets available at a semi-reasonable price ($800 v $2500). HOWEVER, those tickets are usually at the very worst times, with the longest layovers, and the most tortuous routes.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Ralph's explanation was that it would have cost him too much money to change the flight. Why he originally booked it the way he did, I do not know.

If you have traveled at all in the last couple of years you will know that if you change a flight at the last second you basically lose your original ticket and pay through the nose for a new one. Yes, often times there are a few tickets available at a semi-reasonable price ($800 v $2500). HOWEVER, those tickets are usually at the very worst times, with the longest layovers, and the most tortuous routes.

Lou Figueroa
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Very good point, lfigueroa, in regard to the flight constraints.

I'm trying to put together the information from all the threads
on this matter because I was not privy to what happened.
If this imbroglio began as a result of Ralph's flight situation,
and this situation is indeed true, at the least I have the basis
for the entire debate.

Whatever reason for Ralph's seemingly incongruent flight plans,
that is certainly his prerogative and one he had to deal with,
e.g. miss out on tournament play (a.k.a. forfeit).

But can someone who knows the facts provide me with
a basic sequence of events starting from Ralph's forfeit????

I simply want to get the correct information. :grin-square:
Thanks, folks!
 
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boogeyman said:
Very good point, lfigueroa, in regard to the flight constraints.

I'm trying to put together the information from all the threads
on this matter because I was not privy to what happened.
If this imbroglio began as a result of Ralph's flight situation,
and this situation is indeed true, at the least I have the basis
for the entire debate.

Whatever reason for Ralph's seemingly incongruent flight plans,
that is certainly his prerogative and one he had to deal with,
e.g. miss out on tournament play (a.k.a. forfeit).

But can someone who knows the facts provide me with
a basic sequence of events starting from Ralph's forfeit????

I simply want to get the correct information. :grin-square:
Thanks, folks!
Click to expand...

This forum has been informed by Mark Griffin that he is too busy to provide an adequate explanation .... I find it interesting that he had time to explain that he did not have the time to address the real issues.

You want to know who knows? I'll tell you who knows ... The Shadow Knows!
 
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Agent 99 said:
This forum has been informed by Mark Wilson that he is too busy to provide an adequate explanation .... I find it interesting that he had time to explain that he did not have the time to address the real issues.

You want to know who knows? I'll tell you who knows ... The Shadow Knows!
Click to expand...

So how did Mark Wilson get involved in this?
 
I often wonder about threads that impose subjective concepts to make judgments about human behavior.

To suggest that there was a "right" thing to do or to question someone's behavior as "honorable" or "dishonorable" is solely the opinion of the observer and the values they bring to the table by virtue of their own life experiences.

Just like the old saying...."One man's trash is another man's treasure."

Unless the behavior was against the law or the "rules" and defined objectively by society or some other governing board, then "right or wrong" "Honorable or dishonorable" are nothing more than unresolvable discussion points.
 
vincentwu817 said:
Just heard rumors on that Ralf took the 3rd place check before he left for the airport.
Click to expand...

Interesting so that means Shane only gets some prize money if he gets into final since semifinal money taken by Ralf (about $2750). So Shane gets $5000-$2750 =$2250 for being losing finalist.
So they won't let Ko quit the semifinal match and take $2750 cos it will be big farce then cos then 2 non group winners will be playing the semifinal then :D
 
spartan said:
Interesting so that means Shane only gets some prize money if he gets into final since semifinal money taken by Ralf (about $2750). So Shane gets $5000-$2750 =$2250 for being losing finalist.
So they won't let Ko quit the semifinal match and take $2750 cos it will be big farce then cos then 2 non group winners will be playing the semifinal then :D
Click to expand...

Can't confirm it 100%, but one of my buddies heard it from Hohmann. If so, it would be interesting to see how that plays out if Ralf really did get paid 3rd place money.
 
rrick33 said:
I often wonder about threads that impose subjective concepts to make judgments about human behavior.

To suggest that there was a "right" thing to do or to question someone's behavior as "honorable" or "dishonorable" is solely the opinion of the observer and the values they bring to the table by virtue of their own life experiences.

Just like the old saying...."One man's trash is another man's treasure."

Unless the behavior was against the law or the "rules" and defined objectively by society or some other governing board, then "right or wrong" "Honorable or dishonorable" are nothing more than unresolvable discussion points.
Click to expand...

The main reason for the thread is that Ralf is receiving a lot of blame from some. Possibly there are other reasons for what happened.

If you don't like the content of the thread, then move on and have a good day....was that wrong of me to say that?
 
punter said:
The main reason for the thread is that Ralf is receiving a lot of blame from some. Possibly there are other reasons for what happened.

If you don't like the content of the thread, then move on and have a good day....was that wrong of me to say that?
Click to expand...

Thread is ok. Most of us are surprised also since Ralf is epitome of sportmanship and always conducted himself with class. IMHO, I concur with you that Ralf probably felt to let Shane play the match and got out of way. Last thing he wanted is to somehow be labelled as "undeserving semifinalist" :grin:

FYI to provide context, read on site account at the event by "reporter" banditgrrr below
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4823623&postcount=64

banditgrrr said:
Having spent several days at the event, seeing what happened, talking with several of the players, overhearing conversations of CSI staff.....I've come to my own conclusions.

1. I'd be extremely surprised if there is a 2nd Annual Invitational. I can just about guarantee that several of the foreign players will not come back next year if invited.

2. When Ko Pin Yi was informed that Shane was taking Ralf's spot, and Ko protested and said he would not play Shane, threatening him with "if you don't play Shane you will not get paid" was completely wrong.

3. Investigating Dennis because they thought he dumped just to screw Shane was ridiculous. Shane complains to CSI about something, they start an investigation. A different player complains about something Shane does and it gets swept under the carpet.

4. Ozzy made the statement to Mike Dechaine that "this is a show, not a tournament." If that is the case, I hope all the players appreciated their appearance money. From my understanding, There was 8k for first, 5k for second. To me, that means it's a tournament. Ozzy can call it whatever he chooses, but I can guarantee you EVERY player that participated considered it a tournament.

5. One of the CSI staff made the comment immediately after the tournament that "we F'd up and should not have put Shane in that position." Well, at least 1 person on the staff has it right.

6. Words directly from Mark's mouth was "we made a decision to put Shane in that spot because the people paying for the stream paid to watch matches and we're not going to have a forfeit." Based on the several threads here, I believe the people he thought he was trying to make happy are the people that are most dissatisfied with his decision.


All in all, I believe the BCA Nationals was a success and the amateur portion of the event was run very smoothly, notwithstanding time glitches which caused several singles players to forfeit due to last minute changes. On the other hand, the invitational event was a cluster F. There's not much they can say in an "official statement" that will change the minds of most on here, including the people that support their PPV.
Click to expand...
 
Agent 99 said:
This forum has been informed by Mark Griffin that he is too busy to provide an adequate explanation .... I find it interesting that he had time to explain that he did not have the time to address the real issues.

You want to know who knows? I'll tell you who knows ... The Shadow Knows!
Click to expand...


Yeah. Can you believe it?!

All the railbirds hopping up and down at their home computers while the man is trying to conduct huge tournaments at a major casino in Las Vegas with thousands of players.

Boo hoo.

Lou Figueroa
 
spartan said:
Thread is ok. Most of us are surprised also since Ralf is epitome of sportmanship and always conducted himself with class. IMHO, I concur with you that Ralf probably felt to let Shane play the match and got out of way. Last thing he wanted is to somehow be labelled as "undeserving semifinalist" :grin:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the "six points of light," Spartan.
Now I can make a semblance of an informed comment, which is obviously an opinion.

Doesn't sound like Ralph did anything wrong.
SVB did nothing wrong either; like the other players,
he was invited so it is good form to follow the instructions by those in charge—
the same folks who are writing the checks I imagine.

Little Ko was justified in speaking up about the "inconsistency" he felt was taking place.
Little Ko was also smart to continue to play, REGARDLESS of who steps to the table as his opponent.

My point so far is that when players do what they're told and don't make a scene [like some players can] it's refreshing.
We should applaud the players for maintaining their composure.

As for CSI, they should have prepared for this contingency. Or could they have?
I don't feel it matters what the competition dynamics were.
People paid to watch the event.
It's important to present one that maintains its credibility.
If the event gets shortened for some internal reason, so be it.
If the promoters try to manipulate the event somehow, the audience will notice.

If a person pays money to watch a boxing match (pay-per-view or otherwise)
and the match only goes two rounds,
you think the promoters should figure out a way for the match to go more rounds?
NO WAY!! Game over, move on. Integrity of the match is more important.

That might not be the best example, and I'm NOT saying CSI did anything wrong.
All I'm saying is if all the combined comments are true, then allow this post to provide feedback.
I truly hope the alleged incident didn't take place.
If so, CSI loses credibility in my book.
It can't be easy to showcase an event like they did, but at the very least, CSI has to think on its feet a wee bit better.

Nonetheless, thanks to CSI for doing this for the players and fans alike! :)
 
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spartan said:
Interesting so that means Shane only gets some prize money if he gets into final since semifinal money taken by Ralf (about $2750). So Shane gets $5000-$2750 =$2250 for being losing finalist.
So they won't let Ko quit the semifinal match and take $2750 cos it will be big farce then cos then 2 non group winners will be playing the semifinal then :D
Click to expand...

That 2250 plus his 5th thru 8th check already won!!!

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 
In ralf's defence

Since has has alway been my favorite player I'll say this.
Did anyone take into account that since these guys travel so often "and are more organized than the American player" that maybe he booked this flight way in advance, as in before the CSI invite or something to that effect. Or while booking the flight last week they said "hey, it's Friday... Or Sunday night" and he said F it, I'll take it, if I don't make it no biggie, but if I do then I guess I'll just have to forfeit.
 
punter said:
The main reason for the thread is that Ralf is receiving a lot of blame from some. Possibly there are other reasons for what happened.

If you don't like the content of the thread, then move on and have a good day....was that wrong of me to say that?
Click to expand...

No it wasn't wrong....after all it's your opinion.

Was your reply presumptuous and short sighted? Yeah, but that's just my opinion.

If someone was beating your friend with a baseball bat and you didn't like it, would you just move on....and have a good day?
 
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rrick33 said:
No it wasn't wrong....after all it's your opinion.

Was your reply presumptuous and short sighted? Yeah, but that's just my opinion.

If someone was beating your friend with a baseball bat and you didn't like it, would you just move on....and have a good day?
Click to expand...

This makes no sense, is English your first language? Just who was I beating up on, certainly not Ralf.
 
7forlife said:
Since has has alway been my favorite player I'll say this.
Did anyone take into account that since these guys travel so often "and are more organized than the American player" that maybe he booked this flight way in advance, as in before the CSI invite or something to that effect. Or while booking the flight last week they said "hey, it's Friday... Or Sunday night" and he said F it, I'll take it, if I don't make it no biggie, but if I do then I guess I'll just have to forfeit.
Click to expand...

Half the field was heading for Beijing. In fact, I'm told the Taiwanese contingent stayed until Saturday morning. When I purchased my reserved seat in April, I knew the CSI 8-ball event would still be in progress on the evening of July 25, and so did the invitees. Ralf messed this up, and none of the other pros going right from Vegas to Beijing got it wrong because the CSI event dates were known several months in advance.

In short, no ---- he didn't try to do the right thing.

I'm as big a fan of Souquet as there ever has been, but on this occasion, CSI gave Ralf ample opportunity to get this right. Worst of all, he failed to inform CSI of the potential conflict.

This thread will evidence that Ralf was already invited by April 24.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=360922

Admirably, CSI sent out the invitations to these invitational events months in advance. Ralf simply failed to schedule the appropriate flights and compounded the problem by not advising CSI of it.
 
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