So you're saying that you have more control with a "Z" shot , with the cue ball going towards the 8 after the second rail is the better choice here? Having the cue ball following straight down to rebound off the end rail never risks the cue ball getting too close to the 8. It ensures a better control of the cue ball distance from the 8, giving you a better chance to stroke the cue ball. Plus no matter what, you have a way to get onto the 9. Hit the "Z" shot too firm, or hit the angle wrong and there's no chance to make the 8. That means no run out. Following straight down means you technically don't even need to hit a rail to have position. And have more room to land optimally since the cue ball isn't going towards the 8 ball.
Blew BIH on 3 balls/WWYD?
- Thread starter 3RAILKICK
- Start date
So you're saying that you have more control with a "Z" shot , with the cue ball going towards the 8 after the second rail is the better choice here? Having the cue ball following straight down to rebound off the end rail never risks the cue ball getting too close to the 8. It ensures a better control of the cue ball distance from the 8, giving you a better chance to stroke the cue ball. Plus no matter what, you have a way to get onto the 9. Hit the "Z" shot too firm, or hit the angle wrong and there's no chance to make the 8. That means no run out. Following straight down means you technically don't even need to hit a rail to have position. And have more room to land optimally since the cue ball isn't going towards the 8 ball.
This.
Bob Henning has a book called "The Pro Book" in which he details the 15 most common 9 ball shots. The shot on the 7-ball above is shot #5 (more or less), which can be used for both 1 and 2-rail position, going through the center of the table. Once you practice that one a little bit, getting on the 8-ball (as diagrammed above) with a nice angle becomes VERY reliable.
If you don't have it, I definitely recommend "The Pro Book", if only to have the 15 reference shots...practicing them regularly has greatly improved my rotation game. :thumbup:
Good luck with the next BIH runout!
-Brian
Not exactly. I'm saying that you have more margin for error on your speed if you have good control of your angle.
Then set it up for yourself. See how many times going with your "Z" shot that you land optimally. Then setup the follow shot. I guarantee that the follow shot will lead to the easier out each time.
For the shot depicted, I play follow on the 7 to the pocket under the 8 with a slight angle so the scratch is avoided, playing like I'm trying to get straight in, which will probably leave me a slight angle on the 8 to to shoot it in the top right and roll forwards and towards the 9 to shoot it in the top left. (Hits 'em Hard's shot)
If the 9 was on the rail and it was critical that I have an angle on the 8 to get shape on the 9 to the top right, I would probably play the 2 rail Z shot with BIH (branpureza's shot). The 3-rail and draw shots aren't bad either and come up all the time, so it's not that strong of a preference for me. I wouldn't be surprised if I've shot it all 3 ways with BIH before depending on which shot I felt most confident about.
A lot of the shots that you see in videos that try to teach you to play into the shot line instead of across it or you use follow instead of draw are oversimplified to demonstrate the concept, so there's no hard and fast rule. There are almost always trade-offs to be made or balls blocking certain routes, so you have to be able to navigate the table multiple ways, especially in rotation games where you only have one ball to shoot next at any given time.
If the 9 was on the rail and it was critical that I have an angle on the 8 to get shape on the 9 to the top right, I would probably play the 2 rail Z shot with BIH (branpureza's shot). The 3-rail and draw shots aren't bad either and come up all the time, so it's not that strong of a preference for me. I wouldn't be surprised if I've shot it all 3 ways with BIH before depending on which shot I felt most confident about.
A lot of the shots that you see in videos that try to teach you to play into the shot line instead of across it or you use follow instead of draw are oversimplified to demonstrate the concept, so there's no hard and fast rule. There are almost always trade-offs to be made or balls blocking certain routes, so you have to be able to navigate the table multiple ways, especially in rotation games where you only have one ball to shoot next at any given time.
Last edited:
To me easiest means biggest margin for error - ie: play into the biggest pocket and use the most natural path. Shooting into one of the top pockets with enough speed to follow 7+ feet has less margin than the natural 2-rail "Z" route, IMO. With the Z shot, you can hit anywhere within a diamond or so on the 2nd rail and be ok, and you can over or underhit the shot by a foot or so and be ok. If your follow angle takes you a little too close to the 8, any over/under hit could easily leave you without a shot. Just my personal play style, perhaps, but if the pockets are less than 4.5", I wouldn't even consider the follow shot to be a viable option, as it has to be at least a 10% dog to the natural Z.
Aaron
Aaron
So taking the cue ball 10feet and two rails is easier than following straight forward 6-10feet?
On this shot? Absolutely.
Sorry if it's been said but I would never depend on a long draw with the game on the line. Too much to go wrong even if you do it right. I would have played an angle with natural position off one or two rails OR played the 7 down table with some simple follow to a specific point.
I always try to default to natural angles and shape anytime I have the option...which is pretty much anytime I would have BIH.
Guess we know your weakness then. Your ability to aim long shots.
Thanks everyone.
I'm stubborn..I still like my pattern..anything but dead straight on the 8, could have worked out to get to the 9. An inch off the rail, would have presented a two rail with inside to above or below the 9..either would work.
Told ya I'm stubborn.
I did consider shooting the 7 to the side and bumping the 9, but didn't like the possibility of missing the shot while bumping the 9, and maybe being stuck near the 9 with tough cut on 8.
I also considered rolling down table pocketing the 7 in the corner opposite the 9. Force follow that distance and getting a good angle is not a strong shot for me.
Branpureza's (post 11): I almost shot..probably should have.
Old Nine Baller's (post 20)/Corey (post 28): I almost shot..I like that pattern from his cb position to finish off a 9ball with a little pace and play cb safe, in case of a miss. Because cb often ends up on or near frozen to bottom rail, I looked for something else.
Bob Jewett's posts about 'Z' shot (see Branpureza's) describing coming down the shot line off 2nd rail toward the 8 is why I should have maybe shot that shot instead.
My thought with the draw was the same, but I hit 2nd rail too low (1st diamond) where cb checked up and floated down to short rail, straight in. Granted same wrong result could have happened with the conventional rolling 'Z' shot, but probably more accurate overall.
I tried to draw to third diamond on first rail, and tried to come off 2nd rail just below 2nd diamond, but screwed it up.
Thanks for the discussion..most of the suggested shots, I considered, before going with a modified 'Z' shot draw, that I felt most comfortable with...almost got there.
These 66 year old eyes cause me to try to get close to my work..too close, too often.:sorry::sorry:
ps: I was getting 5 games going to 9 playing a strong player. I was trying to get to the hill with this BIH. I won the first two, then he won 7 straight. I needed this game..felt the pressure..and dogged it.
Pretty much...match over.
Maybe next time I'll go with a different choice, and have a different outcome.
thanks again...good stuff
ps: strong opponent said, when I asked after the match, that he would have shot 'Z' shot pattern on the 7-8 position. Hmmmmm?
I'm stubborn..I still like my pattern..anything but dead straight on the 8, could have worked out to get to the 9. An inch off the rail, would have presented a two rail with inside to above or below the 9..either would work.
Told ya I'm stubborn.
I did consider shooting the 7 to the side and bumping the 9, but didn't like the possibility of missing the shot while bumping the 9, and maybe being stuck near the 9 with tough cut on 8.
I also considered rolling down table pocketing the 7 in the corner opposite the 9. Force follow that distance and getting a good angle is not a strong shot for me.
Branpureza's (post 11): I almost shot..probably should have.
Old Nine Baller's (post 20)/Corey (post 28): I almost shot..I like that pattern from his cb position to finish off a 9ball with a little pace and play cb safe, in case of a miss. Because cb often ends up on or near frozen to bottom rail, I looked for something else.
Bob Jewett's posts about 'Z' shot (see Branpureza's) describing coming down the shot line off 2nd rail toward the 8 is why I should have maybe shot that shot instead.
My thought with the draw was the same, but I hit 2nd rail too low (1st diamond) where cb checked up and floated down to short rail, straight in. Granted same wrong result could have happened with the conventional rolling 'Z' shot, but probably more accurate overall.
I tried to draw to third diamond on first rail, and tried to come off 2nd rail just below 2nd diamond, but screwed it up.
Thanks for the discussion..most of the suggested shots, I considered, before going with a modified 'Z' shot draw, that I felt most comfortable with...almost got there.
These 66 year old eyes cause me to try to get close to my work..too close, too often.:sorry::sorry:ps: I was getting 5 games going to 9 playing a strong player. I was trying to get to the hill with this BIH. I won the first two, then he won 7 straight. I needed this game..felt the pressure..and dogged it.
Pretty much...match over.
Maybe next time I'll go with a different choice, and have a different outcome.
thanks again...good stuff
ps: strong opponent said, when I asked after the match, that he would have shot 'Z' shot pattern on the 7-8 position. Hmmmmm?
Last edited:
Well as bad as this sounds, there's a couple shots you haven't been exposed to that would change your perception of a straight in shots. Basically any spot from the second diamond on the side rail to straight in leads to a position out. But this also shows I'm speaking above some peoples skill level here. My bad.
Shoot my shot. See if you get position easier or not.
Hell, hell hell
I was sitting at red light, viewing from phone. The word was 'going' and I guess the phone fixed a typo for me. I don't think it would have been that hard to figure out, gouging is not a word I have ever seen associated with a pool shot.
I thought you were advocating shooting the 7 in one of the left pictured corners...opposite side of the table from the 8. Glad you weren't.
As I said, I also feel using the corners at the eight' send is a not a poor choice.
F
I agree with Aaron. It's not the distance that's the question, it's the stroke precision. In general, using rails makes things easier, not harder, to control and predict.
In addition, the Z-shot and 3-railer are nearly unmissable and have huge landing zones, and most players would hit either shot with a bread-and-butter, natural medium-firm speed stroke.
Shooting in the corner by the 8 means you're playing a lot of follow, but you can only have the cueball about 10" or so away from the object ball. You'll have to put a pretty decent stroke on that one to get down table, which means it could rattle--especially since you're shooting a bit off of straight.
Maybe we're debating 96% vs. 99% here, but I don't like shooting the 7 into either pocket by the 8.
Are you saying to play from behind the 7 and follow down table?
I'm on a 9 footer and while I get that it's BIH, the chances of missing that table long shot as opposed to a short cut in the corner and using the rails is pretty high.
Doing it Brandons way I am 3 out of 3 getting out from there, but I will try it your way as well.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
Except for the shot the original poster chose to shoot, this is the worst choice in this thread full of bad choices.
Nine ball doesn't require balls to travel a minimum amount of rails, it doesn't require minimum speeds, it's not a "roll the ball" game. Minimum rail travel and minimum speeds mean nothing, running out does.
ONB
Old Nine Baller
Banned
Thanks everyone.
I'm stubborn..I still like my pattern..anything but dead straight on the 8, could have worked out to get to the 9. An inch off the rail, would have presented a two rail with inside to above or below the 9..either would work. Triple the bet and you'll learn the right shot three times faster.
Told ya I'm stubborn.
I did consider shooting the 7 to the side and bumping the 9, but didn't like the possibility of missing the shot while bumping the 9, and maybe being stuck near the 9 with tough cut on 8.
I also considered rolling down table pocketing the 7 in the corner opposite the 9. Force follow that distance and getting a good angle is not a strong shot for me.
Branpureza's (post 11): I almost shot..probably should have.
Old Nine Baller's (post 20)/Corey (post 28): I almost shot.If you had shot my shot you wouldn't have needed to start this thread
Bob Jewett's posts about 'Z' shot (see Branpureza's) describing coming down the shot line off 2nd rail toward the 8 is why I should have maybe shot that shot instead.
My thought with the draw was the same, but I hit 2nd rail too low (1st diamond) where cb checked up and floated down to short rail, straight in. Granted same wrong result could have happened with the conventional rolling 'Z' shot, but probably more accurate overall.
I tried to draw to third diamond on first rail, and tried to come off 2nd rail just below 2nd diamond, but screwed it up.
Thanks for the discussion..most of the suggested shots, I considered, before going with a modified 'Z' shot draw, that I felt most comfortable with...almost got there.
ps: I was getting 5 games going to 9 playing a strong player. I was trying to get to the hill with this BIH. I won the first two, then he won 7 straight. I needed this game..felt the pressure..and dogged it.
Pretty much...match over.
Maybe next time I'll go with a different choice, and have a different outcome.
thanks again...good stuff
ps: strong opponent said, when I asked after the match, that he would have shot 'Z' shot pattern on the 7-8 position. Hmmmmm?
Whatever you decide in the future after trying different ways of running out, remember that "stroking" the ball rather than "rolling" it has great advantages in many situations. This is one of those situations.
This is how we learn though.
ONB
Hit's em Hard, no way am I playing it that way.
Same result but much tougher to get there. Rattled the pocket twice where the other way I didn't miss. Using the rails is definitely the way to go.
If you haven't set it up yet try it both ways. Like I said, I'm on a 9 so the long follow is NOT the shot to play here.
Same result but much tougher to get there. Rattled the pocket twice where the other way I didn't miss. Using the rails is definitely the way to go.
If you haven't set it up yet try it both ways. Like I said, I'm on a 9 so the long follow is NOT the shot to play here.
I agree with this pattern...