I read that as well and saw it as a backhanded slap and also a perfectly reasonable thing to say. It's one of the things I have said to those who troll me here, the more you troll me the more I get to advertise and make money. And it's true.
From Willie Joseph Mosconi himself:
- Thread starter JoeyA
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I read that as well and saw it as a backhanded slap and also a perfectly reasonable thing to say. It's one of the things I have said to those who troll me here, the more you troll me the more I get to advertise and make money. And it's true.
might read the post above yours
You might try reading the post above yours, Willie is a pretty solid authority on the subject.
It is hilarious that you dislike me out of jealousy or thinking my statements are Runyunesque. Most people that have went out and lived life find nothing surprising about them. Those that have spent their lives in a petty little existence might think everyone else lives that way. That is a false assumption and I don't need to look any further than my mirror to know that! I have never been afraid to test myself. Most of the time it worked out pretty well.
Hu
You might try reading the post above yours, Willie is a pretty solid authority on the subject.
It is hilarious that you dislike me out of jealousy or thinking my statements are Runyunesque. Most people that have went out and lived life find nothing surprising about them. Those that have spent their lives in a petty little existence might think everyone else lives that way. That is a false assumption and I don't need to look any further than my mirror to know that! I have never been afraid to test myself. Most of the time it worked out pretty well.
Hu
Runyon's stories were based the fact that he lived them right alongside the people he fictionalized.
Yours could be true or they could be pure fiction, no one knows but you and perhaps a few others. In any event it's of no consequence to me whether they are true or not because none of them have any bearing on my life and as far as I can tell are of no use to anyone else's life as anything other than mild entertainment. You should write a book if you think your life was so exciting that other people love to read about it.
None of which has anything to do with the topic. Which is whether Mosconi and Fats were friends. According to Dyer, they were not.
If I said I were fond of you it wouldn't make us friends now would it? You can be fond of someone for various reasons, in Willie's case, ever the professional, it was the money making aspect of the dynamic. In that sense what you "remembered" from Willie's Game (not Cosell or otherwise) was true, Willie saw Fats as a way to make easy money.
But according to Dyer's research, they were not friends or even friendly.
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And how great was Mosconi really? in the excerpt above, Mosconi runs 589 balls in his hotel room while eating breakfast. Broke his own record at 66 years old while warming up for another Shootout with Fats.
Forget the elbow drop or slip stroke....someone please get up there on a big pocket 8 ft table and break this record.
Why don't any of these pool table companies sponsor the attempt? 8ft tables are their specialty with big pockets surely Olhausen or Connelly or Brunswick can come up with a $20,000 prize and set up some showrooms with cameras to record the attempts.
Forget the elbow drop or slip stroke....someone please get up there on a big pocket 8 ft table and break this record.
Why don't any of these pool table companies sponsor the attempt? 8ft tables are their specialty with big pockets surely Olhausen or Connelly or Brunswick can come up with a $20,000 prize and set up some showrooms with cameras to record the attempts.
Absolutely left eye dominant.
A player that is right handed but left eye dominant has a huge advantage playing for a break on the left side of the rack.
The left eye being dominant is like kicking with your right dominant foot.
The right eye dominant players were at slight disadvantage if they were right handed. They were aiming with their non dominant eye when they cut to the left. Like kicking with your non dominant foot.
Nothing I invented. It's just the way it is.
When I gamble with a left eye dominant person I always push out so he has to shoot the ball to the right to play safe or try the shot. The odds really work out in your favor in the long run.
I can prove this to anyone in a short period of time with their own aiming and shooting. Once they see this with their own eyes there is no arguments.
It's as clear as the nose on their face.
Willie was opposite eye dominant. Being up higher did also help keep that dominant eye in the right position naturally.
VVVVeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Innnnnnterestingggggggggggg.
Thanks for sharing there Mr Joey A
A player that is right handed but left eye dominant has a huge advantage playing for a break on the left side of the rack.
The left eye being dominant is like kicking with your right dominant foot.
The right eye dominant players were at slight disadvantage if they were right handed. They were aiming with their non dominant eye when they cut to the left. Like kicking with your non dominant foot.
Nothing I invented. It's just the way it is.
When I gamble with a left eye dominant person I always push out so he has to shoot the ball to the right to play safe or try the shot. The odds really work out in your favor in the long run.
I can prove this to anyone in a short period of time with their own aiming and shooting. Once they see this with their own eyes there is no arguments.
It's as clear as the nose on their face.
Willie was opposite eye dominant. Being up higher did also help keep that dominant eye in the right position naturally.
VVVVeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Innnnnnterestingggggggggggg.
Thanks for sharing there Mr Joey A
Then McDonald's must have superior food to Ruth Chris because they have more customers?
If you're truly interested in food you will be in the RC line. If you just want to stuff your face Micky D's will suffice. Some people just want to stuff their face.
Lou Figueroa
And that’s how Mosconi set up and shot.
If you followed his diagrams and instruction, you’d end up standing at the table and looking like Mosconi when you shot. And if you followed the instruction books of other players of that era — Caras, Lassiter, Crane, and even later Mizerak — you’d end up in pretty much the same place. If you followed the instructions of Joe Davis, you'd look like snooker player Joe Davis at the table. Now that 14.1 is not the dominate game, the look has changed.
In any case, how on God’s good green Simonis cover Earth you can make the leap that none of those guys understood the game better than 99.9% of the instructors running around today is beyond me.
Lou Figueroa
I would agree to a certain extent. However, in rare cases the knowledge of the professional is so great, and their ability to demonstrate that knowledge is so profound, that the line between player and instructor evaporates because of the pure, singular brilliance of the individual, such as in the case of Mosconi.
I once took a lesson from Ray Martin and we talked about the current state of pool instruction until he finally said, "“You know, some of these guys don’t know what they’re talking about. If you want to play like a champion, take a lesson from a champion.”
Lou Figueroa
I wouldn't believe Willie if he came back from the dead and said he believed in Big Foot, unicorns, or CTE.
Lou Figueroa
I seem to recall that Willie actually never enjoyed playing pool. For him it was just a way to take care of his family.
Lou Figueroa
Speaking of "hate" (as in Fats)
And speaking of feeding his family..
In an article from Life Magazine (Oct. 8, 1951) Willie makes the following statements:
" In my opinion, no player can rise to the pinnacle and exhibit championship mettle unless he has sharked bets in his youth."
And later in the article:
" You've got to hate the man you're playing, and he's got to hate you. If you don't, you can't play your best game. "
The article also explains how when his father couldn't work anymore, Willie played to feed the family.
this article
And speaking of feeding his family..
In an article from Life Magazine (Oct. 8, 1951) Willie makes the following statements:
" In my opinion, no player can rise to the pinnacle and exhibit championship mettle unless he has sharked bets in his youth."
And later in the article:
" You've got to hate the man you're playing, and he's got to hate you. If you don't, you can't play your best game. "
The article also explains how when his father couldn't work anymore, Willie played to feed the family.
this article
On an interesting PR note, it has oft been said that Willie did not gamble, or at least he claimed he didn't. However, R.A Dyer, in his book, "The Hustler & the Champ" makes a compelling case for Willie having gambled regularly when he was coming up through the ranks of Philadelphia room players. It was later, to clean up his image for Brunswick, that the "Willie didn't gamble" canard was started.
Lou Figueroa
That's also how I perceived it
I've always thought the thing that held instructors back was too much knowledge in the "conscious" mind. It's hard to bury it where it needs to be if your constantly talking about it and teaching it. Just my thoughts on it
So if Willie Mosconi, whom you said you would give a limb to take a lesson from, said a method of playing pool was good that you didn't agree with you would debate it with him?
I mean it seems like you are kind of undecided if you really think Willie was a pool god worth any price to spend time with or just another top player for you to argue with.
Willie's game was straight pool, which uses a shorter bridge length. In his book "Play Your. Best Straight Pool," Phil Capelle recommends and 8-10" bridge for straight pool, while using a longer bridge on select shots. He also recommends standing a little taller in straight pool due to the shorts generally being shorter, much like Willie did.
If Willie deigned to play straight people and instruct them on it, I'm sure he would have recommended using a longer bridge.
At the risk of being called blasphemous, I agree.
And that is the difference. Most folks don't want to shoot like a champion...most folks want to shoot better in leagues. They don't have the talent, desire or dedication to play at champion level. They just want to get a little better, they may want to get a lot better, but are not willing to put the practice time in.
And thus, if someone was moving up the food chain, and they wanted to turn pro, well he'll yeah, you need to hook up with a guy that has been there......but there are exceptions to that , because there have been great instructors in every sport who were not world beaters......not a lot, but they exist.