Do handicapped leagues & tourneys hinder personal advanment?
- Thread starter Stones
- Start date
No, if someone would let handicapping affect their progress then they didn't have the drive to get much better anyways.
I don't think so either, in fact I think all competition is good for your game. The only issue with any handicap is the inevitable whining that comes with it. I am sure most players have seen instances were a player plays over their head but in the long run it all usually works out and the more skilled player normally prevails.
Joe T
Well-known member
Wish I had the energy to spill all my thoughts on this.
Definitely a place for handicapping in our game but I wish it came with more of a reward rather than a punishment or banning.
Money becomes or can be a problem in handicapped tournaments causing many players to not want to get moved up.
I had one student that got moved up without ever cashing because the tournament director got word they were taking lessons from me lol What kind of message does that send.
Would like to see a format that rewards players as their level or skill ranking increases.
Definitely a place for handicapping in our game but I wish it came with more of a reward rather than a punishment or banning.
Money becomes or can be a problem in handicapped tournaments causing many players to not want to get moved up.
I had one student that got moved up without ever cashing because the tournament director got word they were taking lessons from me lol What kind of message does that send.
Would like to see a format that rewards players as their level or skill ranking increases.
This^^^.
Lack of practice and dedication is what holds most people back. And taking lessons is a good idea. Take a lot of time off of the learning curve. My goal is to become good enough to get kicked off of my league. I wouldn't complain a bit. I see it as a badge of honor. Its at that time I will know I'm ready to move on to the next level. It may or my not happen, but its a goal.
I agree with all the responses so far. (I expect that there will be many at some point that I will not agree with, heh.)
If a player wants to get better, he will, regardless of handicap. If he is more concerned with the petty politics of handicapping (and sandbagging) he will not.
The handicap itself isn't the issue, its how the player handles it.
If a player wants to get better, he will, regardless of handicap. If he is more concerned with the petty politics of handicapping (and sandbagging) he will not.
The handicap itself isn't the issue, its how the player handles it.
I think playing the same people in the same tournament at the same room week in and week out will hinder advancement far more than handicaps do.
from what I see it depends on the person. over all I would say yes..a lot of players in my local apa didn't want to get better because it would break up there team. There's a lot of people that were 2s and 3's when I got into the league and when I left 2 years later weren't any better. There were a very few .. I would say less then 10% ..that I came in contact with that wanted to get better and didn't give a crap what it meant to the team. I don't think it's the handy cap that stops them from wanting to get better...It's the 23 rule that hinders it. You just can't afford people to get better unless you want to constantly be looking for new players which in my opinion is the apa's business plan. A smart one.. but to me not a fun one for the player as part of pool leagues for me is hanging out with friends and family I don't get to see the rest of the week. The other side I never see this in acs or bca..everyone wants to get better so they can win more but of course the new players can get frustrated at getting beat down all the time. Before all the apa people freak out this is just my observation in my particular area...others maybe different.
Were starting a Tap league in my area Monday so I'm looking forward to comparing it.
Were starting a Tap league in my area Monday so I'm looking forward to comparing it.
I don't know if that's completely true... I've seen people who want to get better but don't want there team to get screwed by doing so. It's that 23 rule in apa that stops people.
Depends on the league, the format and the handicap rules.
Some large cities have many different leagues. Some specifically catered to beginners with formats and handicap rules to give the lower rated player an advantage.
If the majority of the time you are playing against people with handicaps lower than yourself, might be a good time to find a tougher league.
Some large cities have many different leagues. Some specifically catered to beginners with formats and handicap rules to give the lower rated player an advantage.
If the majority of the time you are playing against people with handicaps lower than yourself, might be a good time to find a tougher league.
Well to upset the garmer nazi's I will on porpus spel a few words wong.
Now my take on Handicapping Pool Tournments, most of the armature tournaments in Arizona are under the States Rating System, aka Handicapping System.I honestly don't think Pool is thriving, or doing well under this system. Most of the better players like "a" or "b+" players have less events to play in. Because most of the nightly, or weekly tournment are open to lessor rated players.
In my opinion ..... Absolutely . When I came up playing there was no such thing and the object was to practice and keep finishing better until you made it to the money. That way you knew exactly where your game was at and where you stood. I think handicaps ruined the tournaments and actually handicaps the players
I was not part of this, but, last year some teams sent a MVP award to a league operator who determined that one of their local teams receive a ton of handicap, no on could touch them in the 15 game format as they only needed 2 wins to take out a good team. A group of players got a MVP award and sent it to the league operator with their name on it. LOL The MVP = league operator.
I want to reach the highest handicap I can. For a while I was the top rated player in my league, right after I joined and for a few matches afterwards, felt pretty cool.
The flipside to that, is that you will be playing people as good as you that just want to play good enough to win but are careful not to play so good as to go up or just plain manage the games against what they need to do to advance and keep the handicap as low as possible. If their team already won for the night, they'd slack off to pad the misses and losses.
That's the real issue with handicaps, you do not always play people that are ranked what they should be. If they are fair, no issues with them at all, and I don't think it keeps people from getting better. Many players if they had to play even vs. a good player just quit playing. I see it all the time in tournaments, someone shows up with a great idea to play, they come up against a bunch of B players, lose every game and are never seen again. If they only had to win 2 games to 4 they may win a few here and there and are likely to return, and maybe would be interested enough to get better.
I doubt many players would be happy being ranked low rather than improve and go up. Some just start out playing for a long time with bad fundamentals and have a very hard time playing well, which would block them from improving due to how much work it would take to rebuild the game to the point where they can go up. You will only reach so high of a level just shooing for years, you need to learn the shots and how to properly shoot.
The flipside to that, is that you will be playing people as good as you that just want to play good enough to win but are careful not to play so good as to go up or just plain manage the games against what they need to do to advance and keep the handicap as low as possible. If their team already won for the night, they'd slack off to pad the misses and losses.
That's the real issue with handicaps, you do not always play people that are ranked what they should be. If they are fair, no issues with them at all, and I don't think it keeps people from getting better. Many players if they had to play even vs. a good player just quit playing. I see it all the time in tournaments, someone shows up with a great idea to play, they come up against a bunch of B players, lose every game and are never seen again. If they only had to win 2 games to 4 they may win a few here and there and are likely to return, and maybe would be interested enough to get better.
I doubt many players would be happy being ranked low rather than improve and go up. Some just start out playing for a long time with bad fundamentals and have a very hard time playing well, which would block them from improving due to how much work it would take to rebuild the game to the point where they can go up. You will only reach so high of a level just shooing for years, you need to learn the shots and how to properly shoot.
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" If they only had to win 2 games to 4 they may win a few here and there and are likely to return, and maybe would be interested enough to get better."
So you want them to be on the hill if they get lucky and you hang a 9-ball and they win one game. NICE
So you want them to be on the hill if they get lucky and you hang a 9-ball and they win one game. NICE