New US Open Break Rules

[cardiac kid]

Paul S..................hates LUCK. My comment was directed at him because he wants to remove luck from the game, with a round object, that's not possible.:sorry:

Bill,

My guess is until you actually play in one of Paul's events, you won't get the real concept behind his rules package.

You're shooting at the five ball. You miss but the cue ball goes around the table and knocks the nine ball in from the middle of the table. Is that a skill? Your opponent breaks and hangs the nine ball without making a ball. You shoot a one - nine combo and win the rack. Is that a skill? By Paul's rules set, the breaker can make the nine combo but... the nine spots back up. Nine ball having to be the last ball pocketed seems reasonable to me. By far the greatest number of detractors have never played in one of Paul's events. Try it. You might like it! Actually, I've never seen one of the complainers at a Gold Crown event. Incidentally Paul has a full field of 64 EVERY event. Not counting the wait list.

I agree you can not completely remove luck from the game of pool. You can reduce it's effects. Grady wanted call pocket on every shot. He was laughed at as well. Maybe its time to rethink the basic rules package. At least at the games highest level.

Lyn

 

[Island Drive]

Pauls Room

Bill,

My guess is until you actually play in one of Paul's events, you won't get the real concept behind his rules package.

You're shooting at the five ball. You miss but the cue ball goes around the table and knocks the nine ball in from the middle of the table. Is that a skill? Your opponent breaks and hangs the nine ball without making a ball. You shoot a one - nine combo and win the rack. Is that a skill? By Paul's rules set, the breaker can make the nine combo but... the nine spots back up. Nine ball having to be the last ball pocketed seems reasonable to me. By far the greatest number of detractors have never played in one of Paul's events. Try it. You might like it! Actually, I've never seen one of the complainers at a Gold Crown event. Incidentally Paul has a full field of 64 EVERY event. Not counting the wait list.



I agree you can not completely remove luck from the game of pool. You can reduce it's effects. Grady wanted call pocket on every shot. He was laughed at as well. Maybe its time to rethink the basic rules package. At least at the games highest level.

Lyn

All very, very true and I've been beat that way often and vise versa. But until the consensus of pros agree world wide to standardize the rules, the game will constantly be where it currently is. And those that Constantly remove Luck from every facet of play make the product less enjoyable for the viewers. I loved seeing a pro PGA up a tree shooting their titelist. More rules in amateur play always give the better players the ''advantage'' they want. I'll never forget the term non players used ''incidentals'' to make them feel like it helped, but playing a better player it was to their disadvantage. Much like my feelings on letting the winner of the game rack for himself, fox in the henhouse feeling is how I felt the first time I did this.

If other rooms implemented his concept....I'm sure some would like it, and others would NOT, in Pauls room it works but would it work for everyone??? Just getting the 9 on the spot to remove wing ball drainage is huge for the pros., especially those willing to travel overseas.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Paul S..................hates LUCK.

Aw...I think you are just yanking my chain. I don't know why. No harm done.

Just for clarity, I will copy and paste my post on the thread "Pools worst Rules"

Pools worst rules?

1. All rules associated with calling shots (balls and safeties).

2. All break rules that encourage players to lean back and slam the rack as hard as they can.

Among many things, rules should be simple and provide clarity.

We should not be calling balls in Eight, Nine, or Ten-Ball. IMO. What do you think I mean when I say that Larry Hubbart was 87.5% right?

 

[sfleinen]

Aw...I think you are just yanking my chain. No harm done.

Just for clarity, I will copy and paste my post on the thread "Pools worst Rules"

Pools worst rules?

1. All rules associated with calling shots (balls and safeties).

2. All break rules that encourage players to lean back and slam the rack as hard as they can.

Among many things, rules should be simple and provide clarity.

We should not be calling balls in Eight, Nine, or Ten-Ball. IMO. What do you think I mean when I say that Larry Hubbart was 87.5% right?

Paul, I understand your thoughts on #2, and why. You've provided enough clarity over the years on why you think this way, and I certainly understand.

However, I'm curious why you think the way you do on item #1 (concerning called shots). Call safeties are another matter, in that depending on what rule set is used (i.e. WPA or Tony Robles' Predator ProAm Tour rules), call safeties can be a boon or a bust, or even a "meh, what difference does it make?"

But why call shots? Especially non-obvious shots?

Unless it's strictly for viewership reasons?

-Sean

 

[ceebee]

Huh? The break had always meant to provide a random start. It's just fairl recently that player began to micromanage the break shot. The closer we can get back to a random start-the better. You want balls to be called on the break?

The Break Shot in 9-Ball can be tamed or allowed to stay as it is (semi-wired). There are players that practice the Break Shot a great deal & there are players that take what they get. Right there, we have a disparity, but I don't care. Everyone has the same amount of time to get ready to play, what they want to practice or not practice is their concern, it's not the responsibility of the rules committee.

Having an Official rack the balls, provides for the random racking... from that point, the player is on his own & allowed to employ all of his skill & knowledge.

If the rules committee choose to tame the rack, so break shot aficionados are taken out of the equation, that is too bad for the game we all know. Next thing you know, the rules committee will tell everyone that you can't draw the ball. Then they'll say that accidental hooks are illegal & the impeding ball has to be moved out of the way. That is baloney.

If the rules committee doesn't want to play 9-Ball, just go to 10-Ball or place the cue ball in the middle of the table & pour the balls out of bucket like one poster said. 9-Ball is 9-Ball. Just like there are few rules in love & war... it's the same for 9-Ball. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen

 

[Paul Schofield]

I'm curious why you think the way you do on item #1 (concerning called shots).

-Sean

Sean, This is my post on the same thread "Pools Worst Rules"

Yes. Calling balls takes advantages away from the better player. Requiring the stronger player to call his every shot, takes many skilled options out of play, therefore deminishing his advantage. Knowing and understanding the percentages can be exploited by the better and more knowledgable player.

Also a player has to call the shot when he is his behind a ball when his opponent misses. Who do you think is more likely to have to do that.

In part, I am talking about the two-way and three-way shot. I will also add that our games are more interesting and fun to play and watch without the called ball.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Instead of starting a new thread, ill ask here. The break rules are 9 on foot spot, 3 balls pocketed or past center string, and break from the box. I haven't had any time to watch a stream but maybe you guys can tell me. After many matches, has there been any real problems for the players? Many illegal breaks? Any complaints from the players? Thank you.

 

[sjm]

Instead of starting a new thread, ill ask here. The break rules are 9 on foot spot, 3 balls pocketed or past center string, and break from the box. I haven't had any time to watch a stream but maybe you guys can tell me. After many matches, has there been any real problems for the players? Many illegal breaks? Any complaints from the players? Thank you.

One match, Shaw vs Deuel, had issues, but for the most part, not much trouble reported.

Most of all. in this "the break doesn't matter" format, the best breakers are thriving. Shane, Dechaine, Bustamante, and Klatt may be the four biggest breakers in this field. They are a combined 13-0 as I write this post. Throw in noted racking specialist Corey Deuel and they are a combined 16-0. Yup, the break definitely doesn't matter, LOL.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I take it as its not a big deal at this point. I figured the 3 across the center string (as compared to 3 across the head string) would be an improvement.

 

[sjm]

I take it as its not a big deal at this point. I figured the 3 across the center string (as compared to 3 across the head string) would be an improvement.

A point I overlooked but one that Petros noticed is that a large break box is in use, 9" to either side of the head spot. I think this has helped the more skilled breakers.

 

[Johnnyt]

If you want the wing ball not to go very often, you need a much smaller break box. 9" is too wide. Johnnyt

PS: With this format.

 

[Paul Schofield]

They are all scrambling.

 

[sjm]

If you want the wing ball not to go very often, you need a much smaller break box. 9" is too wide. Johnnyt

PS: With this format.

Yes, you are correct, but I'm not so sure it's what we want, JohnnyT. The top breakers should have an edge, and they've shown they do, but just as Jay predicted, that edge is not as great as in the last US Open.

Of course, even if you're one of the few that doesn't think Mike Dechaine is America's second best rotation games player, I'm sure you'd agree that he and Shane are our two best breakers of the balls.

This format sure hasn't gotten in the way of America's two best breakers, who are a combined 8-0 now.

I feel that the 9" to either side of the spot break box is great!

By the way, I have to agree with Mark Wilson and Jimmy Wych. This is the strongest field ever assembled on American soil in rotation pool. A very worthy champion will hoist the trophy on Saturday!

 

[sjm]

They are all scrambling.

Yes, but the guys who are, arguably, the three best breakers in the world today, Shane, Mike D and Francisco (Jeff DeLuna and Ko Pin Yi not here this week) have scrambled their way to a combined 12-0.

The best breakers are the best breakers no matter where you rack the balls.

 

[gxman]

Not that I'm totally against 9 on the spot and break box, but no way Busty and Toasty scratch as many times with a standard rack with no break box. Toasty struggled big time today with the break.