Well the recent threads by and about a cue maker have got me to thinking. Most professional players avoid AZ like the plague as do many, many cue makers. Seems to me that there is a correlation between the two. I have done business with some top tier cue makers and have seen them surf here and get the biggest chuckle out of all the nonsense that goes on. None of them would ever post here but enjoy all the antics immensely. I assume there are just as many pro players doing the same. This all makes me think WTF?? . So I am wondering is the AZ community toxic and/or is society so screwed up that we are broken beyond repair or both?
Cuemakers, Pro Players & AZ
- Thread starter Quesports
- Start date
This is what I have said for years.
AZB can be the mental plague for many industry folks. I can't tell you the number of people who have told me they will never post because of not wanting to be exposed.
Things often get blown out of proportion. Take the Olney deal. Had Jeff not responded or simply apologized and stated it was a misunderstanding, it would have likely died rather quickly. If Jeff would have picked up the phone and called the guy, they might have worked it out. Jeff was kind of his own worst enemy. Regardless, I personally don't think he should have been burnt at the stake. After all, he didn't steal the guys money or something despicable like that.
From what I've seen, cue makers are generally eccentric, have their quirks and dance to their own beat. If you aren't willing to tolerate that, you should just buy a production cue or buy one on the secondary market. It is what it is.
From what I've seen, cue makers are generally eccentric, have their quirks and dance to their own beat. If you aren't willing to tolerate that, you should just buy a production cue or buy one on the secondary market. It is what it is.
Eric, it also goes the other way as well, you're a good example. I've only been posting here a couple of years, in that time I've only seen good things posted about you and your cues seem to command a pretty nice price. From my limited experience in seeing and playing with your cues, deservedly so. My point is, it seems fair to say AZ has been good for you. Another example is JB Cases. I suspect AZ has been a good advertising medium for John as well. I have a JB case due to AZ, and I'm glad I do, it is an excellent product.
You can't have it both ways. The exposure can work to your advantage, however, it can be absolutely brutal if you step on your dick.
If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.
I don't think it's wrong to call a spade a spade for the good of the community or to save the next guy. Mostly just to burn an idolatrous sinner at the stake.
Can I get an amen?
Here is what is comes down to. If you want to USE this forum to advertise then you better sure not ever give an opinion that goes against the majority or defend it if challenged. Because once you do that for some reason you become fair game for every kind of slander imaginable.
As long as you stay quiet and don't challenge anyone in any way you will be ok on AZB. But if you speak up to correct any ignorance then you risk being attacked.
My feeling is that industry people and pros should be accorded the respect they deserve UNTIL they act like assholes. When they act like an asshole then ok they gave up the opportunity to be somewhat protected. But they should be allowed to correct false and ignorant information without being attacked for it.
But that's not how it is. The toxicity referred to is real. It basically comes down to the fact that no amateur player here can hang with a pro player on the table and nor do they have the inside line on the industry (in most cases) but they feel equal to anyone in this business when it comes to written battles and unlike the pro or the industry person they don't need to be constrained by facts.
Any person here can simply make up whatever stories they want, can couch it in "speculation" and thus defame any pro and defame any industry professional. And that is what happens often with almost no recourse for the victim of such defamation.
So if you wonder why more professionals are not here to mingle with the fans and consumers, that's why.
As long as you stay quiet and don't challenge anyone in any way you will be ok on AZB. But if you speak up to correct any ignorance then you risk being attacked.
My feeling is that industry people and pros should be accorded the respect they deserve UNTIL they act like assholes. When they act like an asshole then ok they gave up the opportunity to be somewhat protected. But they should be allowed to correct false and ignorant information without being attacked for it.
But that's not how it is. The toxicity referred to is real. It basically comes down to the fact that no amateur player here can hang with a pro player on the table and nor do they have the inside line on the industry (in most cases) but they feel equal to anyone in this business when it comes to written battles and unlike the pro or the industry person they don't need to be constrained by facts.
Any person here can simply make up whatever stories they want, can couch it in "speculation" and thus defame any pro and defame any industry professional. And that is what happens often with almost no recourse for the victim of such defamation.
So if you wonder why more professionals are not here to mingle with the fans and consumers, that's why.
You said it better than I could, so I deleted my previous posts.
Eric, in my book, making one friend offsets all the yapping little mutts nipping at your heels. When you're near the top of the trade, there will always be people wanting to take shots. That's just life. The Internet has simply made that easier to do.
I don't disagree, which is precisely why I'm still here. I love the game, love the people, and love the conversation (for the most part). I really love the cues, everything about them. The science, the wood, the creativity, everything. And I love the billiard industry as whole. Nothing more fun than meeting up with friends and colleagues at a show or tourney, to drink beer & eat fancy food. Heck, I even like most of the pro players. I consider some of them friends.
Good and fine JB, but sometimes the tycoons of industry aren't in agreement on things. Are the unwashed and ignorant masses supposed to look directly at the emperor's new clothes ?
You probably won't find what you're looking for on a sports / game forum except for squash or marbles maybe.
You probably won't find what you're looking for on a sports / game forum except for squash or marbles maybe.
Interesting thread, couldn't really argue against the remarks made so far.
I would like to offer another perspective to it though: this is mostly a singles sport, almost everything around it has this character. Besides people "overdoing" things, we need to mention people not willing to do anything in regards of "common" advance.
Sure they will complain about the status of the industry, tournaments, people's behaviour etc. At the same time when asked about doing something to make the situation better, their usual reply is something like: "I just play Pool", "I just make cues", "I just make cases" and so on, a lot of them doing it in a high level.
The truth is: if you want a community (or a "business environment") to be better, you have to keep that delicate balance between making things better for yourself and spend some time making things better for all, usually those two go together when you look far enough into the future.
"You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs", and you can't expect things getting better on their own.
Sometimes you need to step up, and at least you know you have given your share even when results are not what you wished for. There are cases in which you may sound like a "lonely voice" for a period, but as things change people come to realize "there was something there, let's think about it now".
Petros
I would like to offer another perspective to it though: this is mostly a singles sport, almost everything around it has this character. Besides people "overdoing" things, we need to mention people not willing to do anything in regards of "common" advance.
Sure they will complain about the status of the industry, tournaments, people's behaviour etc. At the same time when asked about doing something to make the situation better, their usual reply is something like: "I just play Pool", "I just make cues", "I just make cases" and so on, a lot of them doing it in a high level.
The truth is: if you want a community (or a "business environment") to be better, you have to keep that delicate balance between making things better for yourself and spend some time making things better for all, usually those two go together when you look far enough into the future.
"You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs", and you can't expect things getting better on their own.
Sometimes you need to step up, and at least you know you have given your share even when results are not what you wished for. There are cases in which you may sound like a "lonely voice" for a period, but as things change people come to realize "there was something there, let's think about it now".
Petros
sure most of the people here are not top players but would love to be. nothing wrong with that. as in any sport the fans and players look up to and admire those that made it to the top. that applies to the cuemakers and players alike.
when those at the top make their living off of those below you have a responsibility to maintain your image and actions. when you let those that supply your living down, you get blasted for it and rightly so.
when those at the top make their living off of those below you have a responsibility to maintain your image and actions. when you let those that supply your living down, you get blasted for it and rightly so.
i come here mostly for equipment purposes, except that the wanted for sale thread is used excessively by flippers just after they post their cue pic in the cue and case gallery.
AZBilliards itself is great, you can keep up with the pool world, players, tournaments results, etc...the forums are a different story, if you ask a question its answered usually with "use the search tool" or by john barton.
AZBilliards itself is great, you can keep up with the pool world, players, tournaments results, etc...the forums are a different story, if you ask a question its answered usually with "use the search tool" or by john barton.
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Who decides as to whether a person is a Somebody or not. And if you are, you have the run of the House?
Lots of Happy Cue Makers here. They hang out in the 2 Forums for them.
The ones that FK, end up being included in a Thread on the Main.
As far as the Players go, lets not even go there. The members just got tired of the Bums only coming around and making a Thread when they wanted something or had something to sell.
Never to post again until the next time. People eventually see thru that game, get tired of it, and rightly so.
When you have poolplayers in all shapes & sizes, gamblers, craftsman, and guys
trying to make a buck, all mixing business with pleasure 24/7, what do you expect.
Pro poolplayers are playing pool most of the time, most cuemakers are busy
building cues, I doubt they're thinking of AZ on their time-off.
You have to wonder how cues are being built when the so-called cuemaker is posting on AZ all the time.
I know when I was in business I wouldn't want my customers to see me ****ing off all day.
This place is just like one big pool hall, except people can talk a lot of shit without getting their ass kicked.