It would certainly be different in person. No doubt about that. Lots of people have said some very provocative things to me, directly or indirectly, but when faced with me in reality, they are complete gentlemen. I love going to the shows and tourneys just to see people squirm. I'm not a violent person, but boy do people change their tune when they are face to face with me. I wonder why that is?
Cuemakers, Pro Players & AZ
- Thread starter Quesports
- Start date
It would certainly be different in person. No doubt about that. Lots of people have said some very provocative things to me, directly or indirectly, but when faced with me in reality, they are complete gentlemen. I love going to the shows and tourneys just to see people squirm. I'm not a violent person, but boy do people change their tune when they are face to face with me. I wonder why that is?
What I don't understand is why its a bad thing to hold a business owner responsible for handling their business in a professional manner.
I'm one that speaks up frequently because I see a lot of examples of people who have basically turned a hobby into a business but don't hold themselves accountable or responsible when it comes to the business end of things.
Its becomes an excuse at that point. You know the ole "I'm just one guy, not a restaurant".
Then why take orders like one? Why advertise like one?
Its a big risk to do business with people/businesses like this. We're not talking about a 5 dollar widget but in some cases hundreds to thousands of dollars.
I don't know any other industry that frowns so much on leaving honest reviews and making a public attempt to hold a business owner accountable for failing to provide a consistent and predictable way of doing business.
For all the great information given about cue making there's very little about running the business end of things. And when advice is offered its not just met with resistance but contempt. As if any of us could possibly help these cue makers with how to run their business.
Last edited:
You know that part I said about cuemakers posting all the time instead of building cues...
John Davis-Sugartree-my cue>>
I would love to see more businesses and pros posting here but I can also see why they don't.
Sorry JB but I'm going to use you as an example. I have seen posts from JB that I don't agree with but he always comes off as a decent sort and I have seen multiple people take his posts out of context and the first thing they will type is " I'm never getting on of your cases." If you were a business would you risk losing a potential customer because someone doesn't agree with you? Luckily people like JB stick around and still post.
As for the pros posting here. Normally during an event you will have at least 1 I hate Earl thread and a Shane only wins because he is a rack mechanic thread. Would you bother coming on a forum to be bashed? Everyone has a right to their opinion but for people in the business why bother with the added distraction of haters?
Sorry JB but I'm going to use you as an example. I have seen posts from JB that I don't agree with but he always comes off as a decent sort and I have seen multiple people take his posts out of context and the first thing they will type is " I'm never getting on of your cases." If you were a business would you risk losing a potential customer because someone doesn't agree with you? Luckily people like JB stick around and still post.
As for the pros posting here. Normally during an event you will have at least 1 I hate Earl thread and a Shane only wins because he is a rack mechanic thread. Would you bother coming on a forum to be bashed? Everyone has a right to their opinion but for people in the business why bother with the added distraction of haters?
It's.called being anonymous . There are no consequences and therefore no respect
I don't blame them . Ridiculous really
You know that part I said about cuemakers posting all the time instead of building cues...
John Davis-Sugartree-my cue>>
I caught the hint
It's time to decide on wrap. Cue is done, otherwise.
I caught the hint
Smooth black leather, but remember that I have no artistic sense, or ability to see past the blank in it's original form.
I don't know how some of you guys figure out the wood combinations with the rings, and the way everything reacts to various finishes.
You have be able to visualize the finished cue, which takes a lot of experience.
Banks
Banned
We've got Dechaine, Bartram and Brumback, to name a few. Dechaine's got a pair for being able to sweat the stuff that he does get on here, but come back and respond to it and continue to play his game. Bartram likes to mix it up and seems to just love dealing with pool. Brumback is always a gentleman and loves the game as much as the other two, not to mention you could probably send him a question and get a response - free of charge from a world-class banker.
Then you have JA, CW and others that come on here to sell themselves or their product. They've taken a complete 3rd-person position towards their name and really don't seem to care what anybody says, nor, at times, do they seem to care what they say themselves. The few times I've donated to "pro causes", I've felt like I wasted my time and my money. Jeanette Lee cause? I didn't get the little that was offered as a thank-you, nor could I even get a reply on that. The "eye problem" cause from years ago? No response when asked how everything went. Lee Brett? Hard to forget that one. Is this what I'm supposed to kiss butt to? Not gonna happen.
You also have case makers, cue makers and everything in between. CSI/BCA, Diamond, APA operators, etc. People that are active in doing things, not just looking for free money/handouts.
Then there are the countless others that just aren't big on posting or just read without an account and are fine with that.
I think that the forums are doing fine. They've created a great thing that incorporates many aspects of the game and the more support they get, the more they're able to support themselves and the industry. Win-win situation.
Holding a business accountable is one thing. Making a public mockery of a person is another matter altogether, especially when done so by people who are not involved and know nothing about the situation except for what they read on an internet forum.
Which cue makers do you see advertising? Who's out there begging for your business, giving you a sales pitch around every corner? Who has a billboard to increase sales? Nobody I know in the custom world does this, especially not the higher tier guys.
I would of never started in the industry if it wasn't for AZ. The good outweighs the bad by far. That said it gets really old being told all the things you are doing wrong by some people who have never really done much of anything themselves and the cherry on top is they do it without having the sack to state their real name.
The really hard part is not becoming totally closed off to criticism. Some of it is valid and should be taken in the spirit intended. Its a balance thats sometimes hard to maintain. The way I found that works for me is to look at who is saying something. If its someone I know personally or I have seen post with some intelligence over the years I give it a lot more weight than someone who is in every thread expounding on their vast knowledge of shit they have never done before or some username with ten posts. The latter group I try to just ignore for the most part. Its not a perfect system but its the best way I have found for maintaining sanity.
Most pro's I know never post here mainly because they dont really care about the internet for the most part. If they do post its on facebook where they have some direct control of the conversation. Most industry people don't post because they view the possible negatives as far outweighing anything good that could come of it.
One thing I believe based on experience though is that the single most powerful thing about AZ is not who posts but who reads. Many times since I have been in the industry I have gotten comments, compliments, job offers and invitations based on something I posted that was seen by someone I didnt even know was here.
There have been times when I just stopped coming here for months when I became tired of it. Then when I am in the state of mind to deal with it I come back and enjoy the good parts. In the end its the internet so if you are going to take the good from it you have to fade the bad.
The really hard part is not becoming totally closed off to criticism. Some of it is valid and should be taken in the spirit intended. Its a balance thats sometimes hard to maintain. The way I found that works for me is to look at who is saying something. If its someone I know personally or I have seen post with some intelligence over the years I give it a lot more weight than someone who is in every thread expounding on their vast knowledge of shit they have never done before or some username with ten posts. The latter group I try to just ignore for the most part. Its not a perfect system but its the best way I have found for maintaining sanity.
Most pro's I know never post here mainly because they dont really care about the internet for the most part. If they do post its on facebook where they have some direct control of the conversation. Most industry people don't post because they view the possible negatives as far outweighing anything good that could come of it.
One thing I believe based on experience though is that the single most powerful thing about AZ is not who posts but who reads. Many times since I have been in the industry I have gotten comments, compliments, job offers and invitations based on something I posted that was seen by someone I didnt even know was here.
There have been times when I just stopped coming here for months when I became tired of it. Then when I am in the state of mind to deal with it I come back and enjoy the good parts. In the end its the internet so if you are going to take the good from it you have to fade the bad.
Probably not, but there are few sports where we have the opportunity to interact with the pros and the top industry folks like we do in pool. Yet very few here seem to appreciate it. Some do and they are ALWAYS respectful.
Others are just plain assholes. There is no other way to say it than they are the worst sort of trolling creeps that make it highly uncomfortable for industry folks and pros to be here.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that a lot more industry folks would be here if they felt comfortable. And more pros would be stopping by as well.
Shane will talk to anyone on FB. Just PM him if you are on his friends list. As well you can find almost every pro there. Why do they like it better....they can delete trolls who try and disrupt their conversations.
Have to agree here. I understand frustration and I don't think it's wrong to call out a bad business practice. That being said it gets pretty damn distastful when people start calling names and talking of ones personal issues ( he's a drunk, he might be on drugs ect bs ) and would rather not see that type of stuff thrown out there.
Many many forums have the same environment as AZb. Just the anonymity subject. Anyone can act like an expert or arse. No one knows who they are. Really, you can be anyone you want. SL3 can become a rackrunner. Who's to say it isn't so?
As far as pro's and old school cuemakers? They come from a past that frowns on free flow of information. It's their livelihood, so they are going to share. But, they will muse at the shenanigans.
As far as pro's and old school cuemakers? They come from a past that frowns on free flow of information. It's their livelihood, so they are going to share. But, they will muse at the shenanigans.
@Truedat.ur
I'm with you. Attacking a person with malicious intent, especially in attempt to hurt their business, is foul and distasteful. If you have an issue of business that you must tell people about, then state the facts & leave it there.
JB nailed it. There are many negative arrogant trolls going by whatever their "code names are", who make insulting posts to or about people who have achieved in the industry. The tone of such posts generally has the implication that their opinion is of great value. Why get down on their level. I am actually surprised at the strong negative undercurrent here because we all have the game in common.
Websites are a huge form of advertising. As far as I'm concerned its the best form of advertising for both of my businesses.
Registering a DBA, Inc or LLC is also a great form of advertising because it legitimizes your name as a business and sets a certain expectation that goes beyond a back alley handshake.
Even if in some cases it creates a false sense of security.
The only person who made a mockery was the business owner who refused to acknowledge his mistakes while publicly chastising a repeat customer and passing the blame.
We need more exposure when this kind of thing happens...not less.
I get it, you don't like my opinion on this issue but I think you're missing the point if my example of advertising is what differentiates someone running a business and those that are attempting to make a buck off a hobby.
The whole point is if you're going to make your services available there should be an expectation of professionalism and consistency. Whether you advertise or not.
The piling on that you're referring to could have been avoided if that business owner would have done the right thing in response, instead he flamed the fire.
But more importantly the whole situation would have been avoided had that business owner had policies and paperwork in place to protect both sides of the transaction. No business should be making arbitrary decisions without considering the customers/publics response and perception. That would be the difference between a hobby and a business.
I've never done any of those things. My criticism has come based on the events laid out and his own response to the situation.
I never accused you of those things. I don't think anybody has. And this thread is a general discussion, not specifically about Jeff's situation. Everything you post comes back to that thread, even though we're not talking specifically about that thread.
You are correct in that I do not agree with your position, especially not your aggression toward it. And you don't agree with me. That's fine. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. You're talking apples while I'm talking oranges.
If cue makers had the desire to run on society's treadmill, then we'd be bankers or lawyers or concrete contractors, whatever. But we're not. We're definitely not food industry workers. Could you imagine a cue maker working in the kitchen where you order a burger? He'd choke you with his spatula, or you'd die of starvation before the burger ever comes. You simply cannot expect an orange to be an apple. That's my point.
