Pool appealing to mainstream

[ineedaspot]

But the UK is not the US. Just because something is popular over there, doesn't mean it should/will be popular here.

Also, the interest in snooker has been declining for some time now.

Agreed, but it does refute the idea that pool can't be a mainstream sport because it's "boring". If cue sports were too boring to be a spectator sport, then snooker wouldn't have made it either.

The UK has a tradition of pro snooker, and pool does not. That's one big difference. If pool's gonna get there, that tradition has to be built, and imo it will have to be ground up. Overnight reality-show gimmicks aren't going to do it.

Another problem is that snooker is more watchable than 9-ball, at least with the current rules where it's mostly a break contest.

 

[Ih82luz]

One of the best events I watched, was the World Cup of Pool.

In it, you had the good camera angles that taught viewers how the pro makes the shot. And you had some Good Announcers.

If ESPN had shown it on air, then I think it would have improved interest. I also believe the live showing of the Mosconi Cup, and the marketing beforehand, could create some interest within the USA.

As for the different tables, and speeds. I too think you will find "public" courses and those that are set up for professional tournaments, set up differently. In golf you have the USGA meeting with the course to tell them how they want it set up for the pro event.

Most pool players will play on any table available, BUT, what all pool players would like to have are clean tables!

How many times do you go to league, and the tables are covered in fuzz balls, and dirt? Darn near every time.

 

[krupa]

Agreed, but it does refute the idea that pool can't be a mainstream sport because it's "boring". If cue sports were too boring to be a spectator sport, then snooker wouldn't have made it either.

The UK has a tradition of pro snooker, and pool does not. That's one big difference. If pool's gonna get there, that tradition has to be built, and imo it will have to be ground up. Overnight reality-show gimmicks aren't going to do it.

Another problem is that snooker is more watchable than 9-ball, at least with the current rules where it's mostly a break contest.

No it doesn't. "Boring" is a subjective thing. If a person finds an activity boring, then it is -- to that person. It means nothing to them if someone else thinks the activity is great fun. And the fact that someone thinks it's fun does not "refute" the first person's opinion of it.

 

[ineedaspot]

No it doesn't. "Boring" is a subjective thing. If a person finds an activity boring, then it is -- to that person. It means nothing to them if someone else thinks the activity is great fun. And the fact that someone thinks it's fun does not "refute" the first person's opinion of it.

OK, well, sure, some people find pool boring. Like anything else. Some people find basketball boring. The point is that there is precedent for large numbers of people sitting down and watching guys knock balls into pockets on TV.

Some individuals might find it boring, but there are plenty of people who wouldn't if it were organized and presented in the right way. The way snooker is, for example.

 

[jburkm002]

Really. Snooker is exciting to watch. Make a red, make a black, have ref spot the black. Repeat and rinse. I at least, find it repetitive and boring.

 

[krupa]

Really. Snooker is exciting to watch. Make a red, make a black, have ref spot the black. Repeat and rinse. I at least, find it repetitive and boring.

Now now... it's not that repetitive... sometimes you pot a pink ball instead of a black!

Personally I like snooker. I can watch snooker more easily than nine-ball and it's not because 9-ball is a "break contest" (the most repeated phrase on AZB for the past month, second only to "nut hugger" )

9-ball is boring because they shoot the 1, then the 2, then the 3... I wonder what he'll shoot next... oh right, the 4...

I like to play it -- it's very challenging -- but I can only watch it in small amounts.

 

[King T]

Pool is popular!!

I know there have been numerous threads and discussions on this topic but wanted to get peoples opinions.

If pool (and it is a big if) is going to boom again and appeal to more than just keen pool players then changes need to be made.

Absolutely essential is a shot clock, even as a huge pool fan I find myself getting bored watching most players.

Also I think the pockets should be 4.5inch and cloth should be thick and slow. pool looks so boring on tight fast tables where even the top players just play safe if they have a difficult shot on. The times when the cue ball does need to move around the table it doesn't take much of a stroke to do so. What makes pool better than snooker is the creativity of shot making and the power stroke old school players used. It is non existent anymore and pool is now boring to watch unless a game goes hill hill imo.

Pool is popular and booming for the bangers, drunks and social players. Look at the APA its growing and every pool hall that show MMA, Boxing or has special events party's, dancing, etc.., has big crowds, Pool is doing fine at least here in Texas.

Now for us players that know what the game is really about, B level, A level, Pro player, well there a problem and it aint the pocket size or the cloth or the myth of a big stroke from the old days.

Competition that is growing and not going away. The Pool hall is not the meeting place for all men anymore, Home Theater, Fantasy Leagues, 300 TV Channels, the ease of Air Travel, Etc...,

Its a tuff sale for our level of play, few want to put the time in when there are so mant quick fixes to be entertained by.

 

[pacemonster]

But the UK is not the US. Just because something is popular over there, doesn't mean it should/will be popular here.

Not disagreeing with you or anyone else on this subject. But I do find it funny how something popular over there ends up coming over here and becoming popular as well. How many TV shows have we seen that started over there and someone over here decided to do the same exact show but with different people? More than we realize!

IMO....there are more people here that like/love pool than we know or give credit to. Walk into any pool room during leagues and you will see a small sampling of them all. All shapes, sizes, color, and pool level. The problem we have is getting pool on TV or the Big Screen for all the other non-pool playing people to see and entice them to try it. In order for that to happen, a corporation would have to sponsor it and get a network to televise it. There's not a single one of us "die-hards" who wouldn't love to see a tourney like Derby City on the TV. Most of us are relegated to having to buy a "stream" to see a few matches. Bonus Ball "had" some good things about it (team concept, mics on the players, etc) but it fell short because NO ONE PLAYS IT!!!! Stick to 8 ball or 9 ball with better rules and break format and start there. IMO!

 

[jburkm002]

I would imagine many snooker players are household names over there. Most American pros are unknown to anyone to include millions of league players.

 

[Johnnyt]

Agreed, but it does refute the idea that pool can't be a mainstream sport because it's "boring". If cue sports were too boring to be a spectator sport, then snooker wouldn't have made it either.

The UK has a tradition of pro snooker, and pool does not. That's one big difference. If pool's gonna get there, that tradition has to be built, and imo it will have to be ground up. Overnight reality-show gimmicks aren't going to do it.

Another problem is that snooker is more watchable than 9-ball, at least with the current rules where it's mostly a break contest.

Snooker is big in the UK only because you can bet on it legally. Before that, snooker was as bad as pool here in the states. Johnnyt

 

[jburkm002]

For snooker fans. Do you watch snooker for the game or the players? If two unknown pros are playing would you still watch with the same interest? Point being some things you watch because you find it interesting. Some shows like sports you watch because you have a vested interest. Like someone to root for or against. I don't think the game of pool is interesting for viewers alone. To change that I think you have to find a way to have someone they want to root for or against. Like the Mosconi Cup. I also think what they are playing for is important. Create majors in pool. Maybe they will give some tournaments more meaning to mainstream viewers. Don't let anyone and everyone be a pro. Create a tour and either your a pro or your not. Make rankings count. Try seeding like in tennis. Mix it up a little. See what works and improve on it. Whether it's free or PPV. Stream matches people want to see. Can't sell a product with dead air. Matches people want to see not being streamed. Guy practing for an hour on a stream while other matches are going on. Multiple streams availabe. Status quo isn't helping anyone's cause.

 

[philly]

Pool is popular and booming for the bangers, drunks and social players. Look at the APA its growing and every pool hall that show MMA, Boxing or has special events party's, dancing, etc.., has big crowds, Pool is doing fine at least here in Texas.

Now for us players that know what the game is really about, B level, A level, Pro player, well there a problem and it aint the pocket size or the cloth or the myth of a big stroke from the old days.

Competition that is growing and not going away. The Pool hall is not the meeting place for all men anymore, Home Theater, Fantasy Leagues, 300 TV Channels, the ease of Air Travel, Etc...,

Its a tuff sale for our level of play, few want to put the time in when there are so mant quick fixes to be entertained by.

You are so right about who is coming into poolrooms. The production cue makers are loving the boom in barroom pool on 7 footers. The problem is the passion for the game that is not getting passed on to the millennials in the bars that have their own sticks. For me, I never felt more comfortable than in a poolroom either playing or watching my fellow shooter play a match. It's just not boring to me. No two racks are alike. Infinite possibilities.

 

[Bank it]

I disagree that pool is boring to watch. A big counterexample is that snooker has a mainstream audience in the UK. Pro 9-ball is boring to watch, especially for non-players, because it becomes a breaking contest. But the right rules and table conditions can make pool (or cue sports generally) very exciting to watch.

Just how many posts do you need to make in one thread crying about the break in 9 ball? Give it a rest, if you look at break & run statistics you'd find you're way off base.

 

[ineedaspot]

Just how many posts do you need to make in one thread crying about the break in 9 ball? Give it a rest, if you look at break & run statistics you'd find you're way off base.

One more now. I've looked at the statistics. Break and run statistics aren't what's relevant here. Thanks to AtLarge, the guy who comes to the table first after the break wins 65% of the games. The guy who pockets the first ball legally after the break (i.e. gets control of the table first) wins 70% of the games.

The break is by far the most important shot. Watching top level 9-ball devolves to watching to see if the wing ball drops and whether there's a shot on the 1. This is the problem.

 

[Banks]

All kinds of people enjoy the game. Their idea of a fun night out, though, doesn't usually include dead silence and being surrounded by escapees from a convalescent home. If you want people to get into something, give them good equipment and a fun atmosphere.

Edit: The standard pool hall has its place for serious pool, but most people want to go out and have a fun time and let loose a bit. There's room for both and the more people get into it on good equipment, the more likely they are to visit the hall once in a while.

 

[bdorman]

One more now. I've looked at the statistics. Break and run statistics aren't what's relevant here. Thanks to AtLarge, the guy who comes to the table first after the break wins 65% of the games. The guy who pockets the first ball legally after the break (i.e. gets control of the table first) wins 70% of the games.

The break is by far the most important shot. Watching top level 9-ball devolves to watching to see if the wing ball drops and whether there's a shot on the 1. This is the problem.

This is a big part of the problem for you, me and lots of AZers. It's the part of the pro game that we find boring.

But for a run-of-the-mill sports fan the boredom of pool starts long before breaking. To them the game is slow even with a shot clock. 99.9% of the public doesn't know that the 1-ball is the yellow one, the 2-ball is the blue one, and so on. They give up making any sense out of the game long before they analyze break-n-run percentages.

Pool is simply not a spectator sport...under any circumstances. The only hope for pro pool is to play the gambling aspect by allowing online betting in which the viewer can have a stake in who wins. Is horse-racing a spectator sport? Absolutely not. People watch it to see if they won money or lost. Take betting out of horse-racing and see if anyone watches.

One of the oldest lines in marketing is "you're not the target market!" Don't confuse what attracts you with what will attract the broad public.

 

[ineedaspot]

This is a big part of the problem for you, me and lots of AZers. It's the part of the pro game that we find boring.

But for a run-of-the-mill sports fan the boredom of pool starts long before breaking. To them the game is slow even with a shot clock. 99.9% of the public doesn't know that the 1-ball is the yellow one, the 2-ball is the blue one, and so on. They give up making any sense out of the game long before they analyze break-n-run percentages.

Pool is simply not a spectator sport...under any circumstances. The only hope for pro pool is to play the gambling aspect by allowing online betting in which the viewer can have a stake in who wins. Is horse-racing a spectator sport? Absolutely not. People watch it to see if they won money or lost. Take betting out of horse-racing and see if anyone watches.

One of the oldest lines in marketing is "you're not the target market!" Don't confuse what attracts you with what will attract the broad public.

"Pool is simply not a spectator sport...under any circumstances."

It seems like most people on AZ feel the way you do, but I disagree completely.
How do you explain the popularity of snooker then? It's still a couple guys knocking balls into pockets, and it draws sizeable mainstream audiences in the UK.

Pool's actually got a lot going for it. You can capture all the action perfectly on TV. Unlike, say golf, where it's a guy swinging a club and then a shot of the sky and then the ball dropping down somewhere. Yeah, it takes a little effort to figure out which ball is which and some of the strategic elements, but it's not that complicated. Problem is (OK, one of the problems is) that the games being played, particularly 9-ball, have too much luck and aren't very watchable.

I've watched pool with people who aren't big pool players. They figure out pretty fast that if the guy makes a ball on the break, usually he makes the rest of them too, and if he doesn't, then the other guy usually runs out. They don't care about the percentages, but they do realize that it is mostly a breaking contest.

 

[krupa]

"Pool is simply not a spectator sport...under any circumstances."

It seems like most people on AZ feel the way you do, but I disagree completely.
How do you explain the popularity of snooker then? It's still a couple guys knocking balls into pockets, and it draws sizeable mainstream audiences in the UK.

Pool's actually got a lot going for it. You can capture all the action perfectly on TV. Unlike, say golf, where it's a guy swinging a club and then a shot of the sky and then the ball dropping down somewhere. Yeah, it takes a little effort to figure out which ball is which and some of the strategic elements, but it's not that complicated. Problem is (OK, one of the problems is) that the games being played, particularly 9-ball, have too much luck and aren't very watchable.

I've watched pool with people who aren't big pool players. They figure out pretty fast that if the guy makes a ball on the break, usually he makes the rest of them too, and if he doesn't, then the other guy usually runs out. They don't care about the percentages, but they do realize that it is mostly a breaking contest.

Darts is popular in the UK as well; so is blood pudding. People in the South eat livermush, yet you won't find it in New York state. I know people in Eastern Oregon that used to go "rat stompin'". And don't get me started on the crazy crap that is popular in the Middle East.

If snooker were popular in the US, then you would have an argument but just because something is popular in one area, doesn't mean it will be popular others.

 

[ineedaspot]

Darts is popular in the UK as well; so is blood pudding. People in the South eat livermush, yet you won't find it in New York state. I know people in Eastern Oregon that used to go "rat stompin'". And don't get me started on the crazy crap that is popular in the Middle East.

If snooker were popular in the US, then you would have an argument but just because something is popular in one area, doesn't mean it will be popular others.

I'm not saying it will be popular, I'm saying it could be if it were presented, organized, and marketed correctly.

I was responding to someone who said "Pool is simply not a spectator sport...under any circumstances." This is obviously not true. In the circumstances of the UK, snooker is a successful spectator sport, and snooker isn't that different from pool. Pro 9-ball might not be suited to be a spectator sport as it is currently played, but a more spectator-friendly game of pool could be.

There are other reasons why pool (or blood pudding for that matter) isn't popular in the US that have nothing to do with how watchable it is. Part of it is just inertia. There's not tradition or prestige attached to it. It's a bit of a catch-22: pool isn't popular because nobody cares about it. Also there's no organized tour or marketing at the pro level.

 

[bdorman]

I'm not saying it will be popular, I'm saying it could be if it were presented, organized, and marketed correctly.

You enjoy watching pool. I enjoy watching pool too. Most AZers probably enjoy watching pool...because we're addicted to pool.

But 99.9% of the rest of the U.S. audience would rather watch skateboarding, beach volleyball or any of dozens of sports on cable TV. Those sports are easy to understand and appreciate in the first two minutes. There's an excitement to seeing a kid twist and turn in midair and land on the skateboard without missing beat. It looks hard so we appreciate the skill.

But even we get bored when a pool player taps in ball after ball (or, God forbid a one-pocket match goes uptable )

The snooker comparison is very weak because snooker has a long tradition in the UK that pool has never had in the U.S. Also, snooker's viewership numbers are dropping every year (despite having some of the most exciting players in its history) while other sports viewership in the UK are increasing. It appears that UK snooker and US pool are on the same trajectory (down); only difference is that snooker is starting its fall from a higher level.

I have nothing against changing/refining the rules and equipment of pool to make the game more enjoyable to play or watch. But make those changes to please the current players and fans...because it isn't going to attract new viewers.