Was Mosconi correct in thinking that pool should be a gentleman's game?

60inchcueguy

60inchcueguy

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“It’s not that Willie believed pool was inherently good or wholesome. In fact, it may have been the opposite. But like that of any prophet, Willie spread the word that when pursued properly and with discipline it was an endeavor that could transcend the worldly muck. Directly or indirectly, he promoted the notion that those who play his game should be clean-cut, should eschew gambling and vulgar language, should refrain from excessive drinking. He felt that only in this way could pool flourish.” –R.A. Dyer “The Hustler & The Champ”.

The excerpt above gives us an idea of how Mosconi viewed pool. Was he right? Pool is definitely struggling right now, possibly due to it's negative image. Maybe things could have turned out differently if more people had shared Mosconi's view of pool.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with Mosconi. I'm just throwing this out there to get other people's opinion on the matter.

I'm sorry if this subject has been beaten to death. I did not do a search on it.
 
I'm not sure if I can agree with the idea that pool is struggling all that much. I mean, on the global scale, if we compare things to the way they were 20-25 years ago, we now have more leagues and more league players, as well as more pro and semi-pro tournaments and players. What pool in America seems to be struggling with is co-operation and structure.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
I'm not sure if I can agree with the idea that pool is struggling all that much. I mean, on the global scale, if we compare things to the way they were 20-25 years ago, we now have more leagues and more league players, as well as more pro and semi-pro tournaments and players. What pool in America seems to be struggling with is co-operation and structure.

Roger
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compare prize funds from 30 years ago, vs today...adjust for inflation and that should answer question...if it doesnt, go back another 10 or 15...or plot it on a curve vs inflation (if it was a stock, i wouldnt even throw a nickel at it)
 
Mosconi was the mouthpiece for Brunswick pool tables. That was Brunswicks thinking and Mosconi knew it better be his also if he wanted to keep his job with good salary for playing a game. Johnnyt
 
I understand his relationship with Brunswick, but the message is still the same. Maybe Brunswick knew what they were doing? A more wholesome image could possibly attract the mainstream television and ad executives.
 
owll said:
compare prize funds from 30 years ago, vs today...adjust for inflation and that should answer question...if it doesnt, go back another 10 or 15...or plot it on a curve vs inflation (if it was a stock, i wouldnt even throw a nickel at it)
Click to expand...

You're right of course. Purses have not kept up with inflation...not even close. Back in the 1950's-1980's a B+ to A player on a BB that knew how to match up could make a good mid-income living on the bar boxes playing for $5-$10 a game. $500-$700 a week was easy to hit. Today they're playing for the same amounts, but will quit you if they lose 2 games in a row. Johnnyt
 
Mosconi was always in a suit...........

Johnnyt said:
Mosconi was the mouthpiece for Brunswick pool tables. That was Brunswicks thinking and Mosconi knew it better be his also if he wanted to keep his job with good salary for playing a game. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Back then it was really an uphill battle to portray pool as a gentlemens game.

Brunswick was selling pool tables to homes as well as poolrooms. In your own home it was great to portray it as a gentlemens game because you could control the environment. Willie was good for Brunswick and Brunswick for Willie.

Back in the 70's when I was out running the country the money was always where the drinking, drugs and other bad elements were prevalent. So that's where I would go in each city looking for a game.

It was not only tricky to win the cash but you had to get out of town with it. You never knew how many bad guys were around the corner.

Johnny, I know you must have been around then and saw many of the things I am talking about.

Anyone that bought a table for their home, got pretty good and ventured out to the poolhalls would have gotten a huge lesson in pollhall survival.

I really think pool has become a much more positive sport over the years for sure. The comparison from the 40's 50's 60's and my time the 70's until now is a huge turn around.

Of course the day of the traveling hustler is gone thanks to expenses and the internet outing who they are but overall there is so much more to play for.

For a player in their 20's 30's they have so many options as far as what direction they want to travel with their game.

If Mosconi could see pool today he would say, YES, I told you so......and 50 years from now he would be totally right. :wink:

What a great ambassador for the game back then.

He was so far ahead of the times......Thanks Willie Mosconi..........
 
Well..,

Johnnyt said:
You're right of course. Purses have not kept up with inflation...not even close. Back in the 1950's-1980's a B+ to A player on a BB that knew how to match up could make a good mid-income living on the bar boxes playing for $5-$10 a game. $500-$700 a week was easy to hit. Today they're playing for the same amounts, but will quit you if they lose 2 games in a row. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

I agree that its harder to make a living in pool, but if you willing to play in a tournament every day and make a game in the same place there is still money to be made...,

mid-income, maybe not in todays economy, but add in a part time gig and you could get there.
 
I don't think there's a single reason why pool struggles. I think it struggles for many reasons that have varying effects depending on a number of factors. For one, I think people in urban environments are on a health kick lately and there's just nothing you can do about making pool into a health-related sport. Second, I think we're also competing with the digital world. Whether it's social media or video games, people are competing and/or meeting people via their iPhones, PlayStations and computers, not in physical places where people come to gather. Last is cost. There are just too many cities now that demand real estate to yield a certain amount of money. The cost per square foot places a high price on customers so those urban pool rooms you once saw are now further and further away from the cental parts of the city OR they're expensive. By comparison, a strict bar could be a fraction of the size yet have a similar profit margin. The sum of what I'm saying is, pool may not be the coolest thing to do anymore but it's only compounded by an unfavorable economy. Making it gentlemanly may only confuse your audience and have a detrimental effect.
 
Roger Long said:
I'm not sure if I can agree with the idea that pool is struggling all that much. I mean, on the global scale, if we compare things to the way they were 20-25 years ago, we now have more leagues and more league players, as well as more pro and semi-pro tournaments and players. What pool in America seems to be struggling with is co-operation and structure.

Roger
Click to expand...
I don't think everyone thinks of Bar Box as the same thing as pool (if that makes sense)...
 
Ohplayer said:
“It’s not that Willie believed pool was inherently good or wholesome. In fact, it may have been the opposite. But like that of any prophet, Willie spread the word that when pursued properly and with discipline it was an endeavor that could transcend the worldly muck. Directly or indirectly, he promoted the notion that those who play his game should be clean-cut, should eschew gambling and vulgar language, should refrain from excessive drinking. He felt that only in this way could pool flourish.” –R.A. Dyer “The Hustler & The Champ”.

The excerpt above gives us an idea of how Mosconi viewed pool. Was he right? Pool is definitely struggling right now, possibly due to it's negative image. Maybe things could have turned out differently if more people had shared Mosconi's view of pool.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with Mosconi. I'm just throwing this out there to get other people's opinion on the matter.

I'm sorry if this subject has been beaten to death. I did not do a search on it.
Click to expand...

I agree with Willie and think the idea is still valid today.
 
I think so....

Well for me pool is much more enjoyable if it is treated as a "gentlemen's sport", meaning the game should be approached with respect and good sportsmanship. I try to avoid playing with idiots, cheats, cons, poor looser's, etc. and have little time for some one that would try to hustle me out of money I worked my whole life for. But, if some one wants to hang out in a pool hall that caters to low life's and gamblers that hustle each other and any one else they can get to I won't loose any sleep over it. That is just a part of pool that will never go away. To me that aspect of pool is different then 2 shooters that know each other and decide to wager a bet on their game.
 
owll said:
compare prize funds from 30 years ago, vs today...adjust for inflation and that should answer question...if it doesnt, go back another 10 or 15...or plot it on a curve vs inflation (if it was a stock, i wouldnt even throw a nickel at it)
Click to expand...




In Mosconi's Book, Willie Game, Willie commented Pool was never as big as it was the year of his birth 1913.

Pool has places that have pockets of doing well, but in the great Phoenix Metro one expert on the subject. Dave Clayton who do a lot of the table work in the Valley, and State said a couple of years ago to me. Business was way off.

Reason Bars Sports Bars, & Rooms closing, and owners were hold off on table work because of less customer traffic, and less revenues.

Last time I saw Dave this year in summer, he commented his work load had not turned amount to what it was years ago.

Blame Obama, Unions, and the other who have allowed many good paying job to be shifted or out sourced to third world countries.

People also have shifted to the internet for entertainment for entertainment, plus Pool does not spent the money MLB, NFL, NBA, NASCAR or other Pro Sport do reaching out, and marketing to people for their expendable income.

The idea of Pool being a gentleman sport is in question in my mind in 2014. Earl sure is not a Mosconi, Willie was a gentleman. JMHO.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Blame Obama, Unions, and the other who have allowed many good paying job to be shifted or out sourced to third world countries.
Click to expand...

You may as well toss in.. blame cheapskate nits that won't spend a dime anywhere, but act like they know how businesses work. Know what I mean, Bruce?
 
Ohplayer said:
“It’s not that Willie believed pool was inherently good or wholesome. In fact, it may have been the opposite. But like that of any prophet, Willie spread the word that when pursued properly and with discipline it was an endeavor that could transcend the worldly muck. Directly or indirectly, he promoted the notion that those who play his game should be clean-cut, should eschew gambling and vulgar language, should refrain from excessive drinking. He felt that only in this way could pool flourish.” –R.A. Dyer “The Hustler & The Champ”.

The excerpt above gives us an idea of how Mosconi viewed pool. Was he right? Pool is definitely struggling right now, possibly due to it's negative image. Maybe things could have turned out differently if more people had shared Mosconi's view of pool.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with Mosconi. I'm just throwing this out there to get other people's opinion on the matter.

I'm sorry if this subject has been beaten to death. I did not do a search on it.
Click to expand...


Gambling, vulgarity, and alcohol.

I don't get it, whats not to like?
 
Excuse me, but isn't drinking alcohol, getting belligerent and screaming obscenities basically the real favorite past time for every sport in this country? And after the championships, you burn your city to the ground...if your team wins, of course.

Both pool and golf for some reason want to shun this type of behavior and then wonder why no one cares to watch...

There isn't anything wrong with pool and never has been. People have always been effed up though.
 
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