all wages need to be put into escrow prior to a new season starting. Otherwise, kill this foul beast.
Bonus Ball still lives
- Thread starter Vlr
- Start date
Hmmm I watched Greg beg player after player who were in Tunica for ultimate 10ball to stay for the Southern Classic and everyone of them hopped a plane and headed back to play BB and guess what happened when they got back? The season didn't start back up...
Then there were the guys that didn't play Ultimate OR Tunica... Some were just too strapped from the back and forth expenses of traveling out west... Make it Happen 14.1 event was missing John Schmidt... Bet you can guess why.......
I will link the Bahdi article if I can find it for those who think BB and the players actions had nothing to do with him leaving the sport... He had one of the richest payouts in the world and couldn't fill the field.... He had words for both the industry and the players......
So you had a poolroom, a live stream, and some inexperienced players that thought it was interesting,,,,,,,,,, may be a good venue if they ever have another season.
Banks
Banned
Would bullet points help?
1. It added one more fracture to the sport.
2. It pitted players against events/schedule conflicts
3. It tried to reinvent a game that was already getting less attention
4. It reinforced the idea that the pool industry is flaky, from showtime to paycheck
5. It was a big bird-flip to anybody that didn't immediately jump on the bandwagon
6. It was tacky
7. A lot of interest from league players? Maybe in Bull Shooters.
8... Who cares, the first 4 were enough.
As a spectator I had planned on driving up to that Tunica event, staying at the host hotel and buying the VIP table seats. But given that many players weren't going to be there I didn't bother going. So Bonus Ball did have an impact.
Mr. Bdorman, all due respect..It is not a matter of 'wishing' it to fail..The promoter's of BonusBall, did everything they could do, to ENSURE its failure !..They made every poor decision they could possibly have made..Its hard to believe these were grown men, investing real dollars, behind ALL those terrible choices.. As Banks pointed out (in post #24)..their ego and their methods, when applied wrong can be, and WAS devistating !
There is no need to list them all again, (ie; the game itself, the venue, the business model)..and a dozen or so other negatives ! It would be easier to list the ONLY good idea they had, and that was the 'team concept' !...Their failure to capitalize on it, AND their alienating of the other respected tournament promoter's (from day one) almost insured its demise !.. We are just now witnessing the fall-out from those horrible decisions, in todays increasingly dismal tournament outlook !
Sorry, but those of you that think they may find success in the Asian market, are simply hiding your head in the sand. Those people, and the Euro's and the Filipino's (and their Pro's).. are not going to be near as uninformed and gullible, as the US mindset was..We were the 'guinea pigs' !..I would like to wager VERY long odds, that BB is just putting the final 'expensive' nail in it's coffin !
I am actually amazed that my good friends, Fast Lenny and Roger Long, are STILL not convinced, that BB is completely dead in the water ! At least Lenny is convinced, they may have had a prayer, if they had switched to 8-ball...But, then it wouldn't be 'Bonus Ball', would it ?..Even Trudeau, (with Sigel's guidance) knew that 8-ball was the ONLY sensible way to go..He may have succeeded too, had the pari-mutual law changes, or their eventual enforcement, not shot it down !..And, in closing Mr.B...NO, I don't feel good about BB's demise, but I certainly expected it !.. It lasted longer than I thought it would..(ask Lenny
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As I stated with the Ultimate 10 ball, I forget the exact number but nearly every player in Bonus Ball went and played in that event. Probably would have had a full field if held at Derby. I do think working around the other pro events would be a good idea along with also condensing the season so players don't have to relocate to Vegas, this saves everyone money.
Pick a month and run matches 5-6 days a week for a month, get your content and season finished, players make great money for a month and they also can play other events during the rest of the year. During the off months use the venue for other pool related events like WPBL 8, 9 and 10 ball tournaments with some added money. Perhaps do challenge matches too, there are tons of things that can be done to improve things which could benefit the players, WPBL, fans and the game.
Mr. Bdorman, all due respect..It is not a matter of 'wishing' it to fail..The promoter's of BonusBall, did everything they could do, to ENSURE its failure !..They made every poor decision they could possibly have made..Its hard to believe these were grown men, investing real dollars, behind ALL those terrible choices.. As Banks pointed out (in post #24)..their ego and their methods, when applied wrong can be, and WAS devistating !
There is no need to list them all again, (ie; the game itself, the venue, the business model)..and a dozen or so other negatives ! It would be easier to list the ONLY good idea they had, and that was the 'team concept' !...Their failure to capitalize on it, AND their alienating of the other respected tournament promoter's (from day one) almost insured its demise !.. We are just now witnessing the fall-out from those horrible decisions, in todays increasingly dismal tournament outlook !
Sorry, but those of you that think they may find success in the Asian market, are simply hiding your head in the sand. Those people, and the Euro's and the Filipino's (and their Pro's).. are not going to be near as uninformed and gullible, as the US mindset was..We were the 'guinea pigs' !..I would like to wager VERY long odds, that BB is just putting the final 'expensive' nail in it's coffin !
I am actually amazed that my good friends, Fast Lenny and Roger Long, are STILL not convinced, that BB is completely dead in the water ! At least Lenny is convinced, they may have had a prayer, if they had switched to 8-ball...But, then it wouldn't be 'Bonus Ball', would it ?..Even Trudeau, (with Sigel's guidance) knew that 8-ball was the ONLY sensible way to go..He may have succeeded too, had the pari-mutual law changes, or their eventual enforcement, not shot it down !..And, in closing Mr.B...NO, I don't feel good about BB's demise, but I certainly expected it !.. It lasted longer than I thought it would..(ask Lenny
The TV industry is not as over saturated in Asia and pool is a sport there. We have too many big time sports with real money in them like NFL, NBA, MLB and many others that people watch so pool just can't compete here which is why its ratings suck in the US. I believe Asia will take all the pool content they can get for FREE since they have no investment or production cost along with a huge viewership for pocket billiards. Use the numbers from all those viewers and maybe BB can get sponsors behind it even if its Asian or a company that is worldwide and not US based.
I really would like to see online betting take hold and support a pool endeavor but would it be on the up and up, snooker has had its troubles with dumping sadly and those players actually make decent money. Either way I do hope the format is changed to 2 out of 3 featuring two games we are familiar with and slowly introduce Bonus Ball to new fans which the WPBL owns the rights to, it is still the World Professional Billiard League after all so market that more than BB.
Get rid of the hockey jerseys in favor of polos and make the teams world teams featuring countries instead of cities like Team England, Team USA, Team Philippines, Team China and so on would be more interesting and worldly in my opinion. Bonus Ball did do some stuff right like shot clock, scoreboard, a beautiful venue and the team aspect along with mics on the players, much more interesting hearing player chatter along with commentary.
P.S. What days and times are you at the Deli so I can come by and let you buy me some drinks? haha :grin:
Oh, listen to everyone howl about Barry Berhman not paying the players, but somehow the "other" BB, Bonus Ball not paying the players got nary a peep from many of those same people....
Funny business, this pool
That was just due to an unforeseeable minor revenue shortfall-Couldn't be helped. :smile: lol!
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Yes, let us all have a drink to celebrate BB.
Just like to celebrate my friendship with SJD. :wink:
Come by any time, Lendon..Maybe I can get you drunk, and make you forget Bogus Ball ?.. How long are you going to beat that dead horse ?..NOTHING remotely like BB will work anywhere, not in Asia, or anywhere else on the planet ! :banghead:
..You and Scott (another disillusioned BB supporter) need to stick to making your great, worthwhile salable video productions, and forget about Boner Ball !.. Scott would have been way ahead, playing $10 one pocket with Bernie at kolbys, than he realized from BB, in Las Vegas...Not even counting, his occasional casino 'escapades' ! rolleyes:
PS..From day one, what have I said about BB, that has not proven to be exactly/ true ?...Is Roger Long your Daddy ?..Its really scary how much you both think alike !
:grin: :grin:
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Come by any time, Lendon..Maybe I can get you drunk, and make you forget Bogus Ball ?.. How long are you going to beat that dead horse ?..NOTHING remotely like BB will work anywhere, not in Asia, or anywhere else on the planet ! :banghead:
..You and Scott (another disillusioned BB supporter) need to stick to making your great, worthwhile salable video productions, and forget about Boner Ball !.. Scott would have been way ahead, playing $10 one pocket with Bernie at kolbys, than he realized from BB, in Las Vegas...Not even counting, his occasional casino 'escapades' ! rolleyes:
PS..From day one, what have I said about BB, that has not proven to be exactly/ true ?...Is Roger Long your Daddy ?..Its really scary how much you both think alike !
funny shit there,,,,,,
PS..From day one, what have I said about BB, that has not proven to be exactly/ true ?...Is Roger Long your Daddy ?..Its really scary how much you both think alike !
And what have I said about Bonus Ball that has not proven to be exactly true?
Roger
This game is never going to work. Never. Give up while your ahead (I mean not so sunk)
I've not seen one pro ever practice it, gamble at it, or even talk about it since it ended. They all know the game blows, they were all frontin for a paycheck (And I don't blame Em)
I've not seen one pro ever practice it, gamble at it, or even talk about it since it ended. They all know the game blows, they were all frontin for a paycheck (And I don't blame Em)
Yes, this true, $100,000 isn't much for the best we have to offer. You want something better, add some money... But where do we get the money,, that's the 64 dollar question. More money does more than make the pot sweeter, it generates more interest as to what is going on.
Let ask another question. Would you rather have a Professional Players tournament or an Amatuer's Handicap Tournament for the cash.
Bonus Ball might have gotten more big time interest, if they had moved their venue around the country, to gather some momentum from the cities & towns, where the team was supposed located & representing. Rivalries really add some flavor to the mix. You would have also had celebs, local personalities, maybe the newspapers & local coverage. Just an idea.
I applaud the idea of bonus ball in theory, but the game was horrible! The execution to get that game off the ground would have to be near perfect and then you would've still needed a miracle to get it to take. If you can't sell the American public on pool using games they know, how on earth would you get them to jump on board with a terribly boring game they know nothing about!
It was laughable having teams represent cities and wear jerseys. I live and die for the Sox and the Pats, I wouldn't give two shits about a BB team from Boston. You can't just tell people this is your team and they'll jump on board, it doesn't work that way. The only way to get that idea to stick is if teams played there and people had some reason to feel connected to them.
Filming for a month in vegas and selling a pre taped season would not work in the live sport marketplace that exists in this country. The results would somehow become known and kill any interest in the outcome. You would then have to rely on the technical aspects of the game play itself to hold the attention of a public that doesn't know the technical aspects of the game. People who know little about golf will watch hours of golf because it is live and in a way exciting. Bonus ball is in no way exciting and gives the general public no reason to watch it!
I do think anybody who is making an effort in this industry should be supported, but they also have to roll with the punches. They could learn from their mistakes, lose bonus ball, move to eightball and maybe have a chance to build something worthwhile. Maybe they could invest in existing infrastructure and build on things people are already somewhat familiar with. That last line was a generality as I am not sure what the best existing entity to invest in would be. People like championships, money and live sports, try something with those selling points. Jumping off the deep end with a far fetched idea like bonus ball was doomed from inception. I also think a lot more collaboration is needed if this industry is going to succeed. Everybody wants in on the ground floor of their own building. If more people work together you could actually build the foundation of a big building not a whole bunch of unfinished failing buildings. Sorry for the rant, just some things I've been holding in for awhile.
It was laughable having teams represent cities and wear jerseys. I live and die for the Sox and the Pats, I wouldn't give two shits about a BB team from Boston. You can't just tell people this is your team and they'll jump on board, it doesn't work that way. The only way to get that idea to stick is if teams played there and people had some reason to feel connected to them.
Filming for a month in vegas and selling a pre taped season would not work in the live sport marketplace that exists in this country. The results would somehow become known and kill any interest in the outcome. You would then have to rely on the technical aspects of the game play itself to hold the attention of a public that doesn't know the technical aspects of the game. People who know little about golf will watch hours of golf because it is live and in a way exciting. Bonus ball is in no way exciting and gives the general public no reason to watch it!
I do think anybody who is making an effort in this industry should be supported, but they also have to roll with the punches. They could learn from their mistakes, lose bonus ball, move to eightball and maybe have a chance to build something worthwhile. Maybe they could invest in existing infrastructure and build on things people are already somewhat familiar with. That last line was a generality as I am not sure what the best existing entity to invest in would be. People like championships, money and live sports, try something with those selling points. Jumping off the deep end with a far fetched idea like bonus ball was doomed from inception. I also think a lot more collaboration is needed if this industry is going to succeed. Everybody wants in on the ground floor of their own building. If more people work together you could actually build the foundation of a big building not a whole bunch of unfinished failing buildings. Sorry for the rant, just some things I've been holding in for awhile.
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Good Ideas in a good post. Maybe 8-Ball, but you can only make balls in your own Pockets. I too like the idea of teams representing an area they live in. We could have a darn fine team, here In Oklahoma.