Mosconi Cup Unpicked Players Bail Out

[Hits 'em Hard]

You know what would hurt a pool player's livelihood? Being so short-sight that you would not keep your word to go if selected, burn bridges on the way out the door, and miss out on the exposure and networking opportunities being in Blackpool would present. Oh yeah, and by showing you weren't a team player, potentially damaging your prospects in future years.

Lou Figueroa

Who said they bailed? Someone not on the team. Who said they broke their word? Someone not on the team. So far besides Justin saying them not going isn't going to hurt the team, no one else in the know has responded. Sure we got word of mouth. But until SVB or the rest of the team pipes up and says they bailed, all we have is this or that persons word because they talked to XXX person. Quite reliable information if you ask me.

So here's the deal. You're trying to tear down three people because it's your feelings that are hurt. Where in life did you get the idea that trolling was cool?

 

[Wedge]

Well

Who said they bailed? Someone not on the team. Who said they broke their word? Someone not on the team. So far besides Justin saying them not going isn't going to hurt the team, no one else in the know has responded. Sure we got word of mouth. But until SVB or the rest of the team pipes up and says they bailed, all we have is this or that persons word because they talked to XXX person. Quite reliable information if you ask me.

So here's the deal. You're trying to tear down three people because it's your feelings that are hurt. Where in life did you get the idea that trolling was cool?

Mark Griffin responded twice...guess he isn't in the know!

Wedge

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Mark Griffin responded twice...guess he isn't in the know!

Wedge

Mark Wilson is the coach for the team, where's his response?

 

[Neil]

It would be an easy thing to commit to if we were discussing NBA players going to the Olympics. Broke pool players is a different story.

So, if you have a low bank account, you are not responsible to have to think things through before you commit to them?? Sorry, I don't think or live that way.

 

[leto1776]

So, if you have a low bank account, you are not responsible to have to think things through before you commit to them?? Sorry, I don't think or live that way.

Sacrificing time away from home and work to "represent my country" in an event that that vast,vast majority of my country doesn't even know exists? An event where Imwouldn't even be participating in? Yeah, real hard choice to make.

 

[Wedge]

You didn't answer the question

Mark Wilson is the coach for the team, where's his response?

You said that no one other than Justin is in the know...I guess you think Mark Griffin doesn't count...way to back peddle and deflect the question!

Wedge

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

You said that no one other than Justin is in the know...I guess you think Mark Griffin doesn't count...way to back peddle and deflect the question!

Wedge

Was Mark Griffin present at all team functions/meetings? Like I said, if it ain't someone on the team all they are going off of is a "they said this" moment.

 

[Neil]

Sacrificing time away from home and work to "represent my country" in an event that that vast,vast majority of my country doesn't even know exists? An event where Imwouldn't even be participating in? Yeah, real hard choice to make.

Then simply don't commit to it in the first place. They all knew ten months ago that three of them weren't going to play. With the exception of SVB, I don't believe for a second that the other 7 never thought that they might not be one of the three.

If it were me, and I agreed to it, then I would also know that there may very well be financial concerns. I would have had ten months to take care of that problem. Could have advertised myself for challenge matches with a MC team member, whatever. Money could have been raised on my own to ensure that I had enough to cover expenses.

That any or some of the players didn't even think that far, is on them, and them alone. I wouldn't have been waiting just on Mark to see what he came up with for me, I would have been going after what I needed myself. Not wait until the last minute and then say, sorry, not in my budget anymore.

 

[Wedge]

No he wasn't

Was Mark Griffin present at all team functions/meetings? Like I said, if it ain't someone on the team all they are going off of is a "they said this" moment.

Was Justin there? You are deflecting the question again! Here is Mark's take on the whole thing in case you didn't read it:

Mosconi Cup Unpicked Players Bail Out - Yesterday, 07:19 PM
I have read this whole thread and have a couple of things to say. I cannot get into any banter because I am gong to be driving out of town in an hour BUT -----

Here is my opinion.

I believe that the concept was to build a TEAM - and I think Mark Wilson was probably pretty clear on the team concept.

I also believe the MC 8 were all aware of the 'deal' and I am sure they originally agree to go over and show support.

I also believe there is a fair amount of value to the 3 players and to the US team - and to MatchRoom if that were to happen. The learning experience to the 3 players would be valuable in future years.

I think the US is just not grasping what a TEAM is - all this gibberish about you don't make the cut - you aren't on the team is the wrong type of thinking!

I am not calling the 3 players wrong - but I am telling them that I think they are being short sighted. This misses the whole point in team building.

Now to a few other items: CJ - I would offer to front the money to the traveling players IF they cannot wait for MatchRoom to reimburse them. All MatchRoom has to do is agree to send the checks to me.

To Kid - the thought that the 8 were going to have a 'shootout' is ridiculous and shows that you don't get 'team building' either.

Every person has to make up their mind for their own reasons. And they must also pay the future consequences. I also feel that if a man's word is no good, then he should expect to be scrutinized in the future.

Too much has been written on this whole topic. Too many are taking it way too seriously. But please also remember that this is a big production event. I am quite sure that MatchRoom and Mark Wilson are not too thrilled with this last minute change.

Will they go public - I don't think so - but I will bet you that it will be remembered.

I just think it is a shame that a lot of hard work and preparation went into this plan - and to have it tossed out the window seems a little disappointing.

Mark Griffin

 

[lfigueroa]

Who said they bailed? Someone not on the team. Who said they broke their word? Someone not on the team. So far besides Justin saying them not going isn't going to hurt the team, no one else in the know has responded. Sure we got word of mouth. But until SVB or the rest of the team pipes up and says they bailed, all we have is this or that persons word because they talked to XXX person. Quite reliable information if you ask me.

So here's the deal. You're trying to tear down three people because it's your feelings that are hurt. Where in life did you get the idea that trolling was cool?

Having spoken to MW last night about it all and having previously spoken to individuals very close to the coaching staff I can tell you they bailed. I can tell you they broke their word. In terms of disrupting what the coaching staff was trying to accomplish and have worked towards this past year, they have hurt the team. They have also, in all likelihood, hurt themselves.

One last thing: with friends like you, to perpetuate this thread, you are the ones dragging them through the mud. Have at it. In the immortal words of Arlo Guthrie, "That was horrible. If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud. I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes... I'm not proud... Or tired. So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part harmony and feeling. We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing..."

Kumbaya anyone?

Lou Figueroa
or Alice's Restaurant

 

[Hungarian]

You're an odd fellow. You remind me of a cartoon character.

Having spoken to MW last night about it all and having previously spoken to individuals very close to the coaching staff I can tell you they bailed. I can tell you they broke their word. In terms of disrupting what the coaching staff was trying to accomplish and have worked towards this past year, they have hurt the team. They have also, in all likelihood, hurt themselves.

One last thing: with friends like you, to perpetuate this thread, you are the ones dragging them through the mud. Have at it. In the immortal words of Arlo Guthrie, "That was horrible. If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud. I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes... I'm not proud... Or tired. So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part harmony and feeling. We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing..."

Kumbaya anyone?

Lou Figueroa
or Alice's Restaurant

 

[leto1776]

Then simply don't commit to it in the first place. They all knew ten months ago that three of them weren't going to play. With the exception of SVB, I don't believe for a second that the other 7 never thought that they might not be one of the three.

If it were me, and I agreed to it, then I would also know that there may very well be financial concerns. I would have had ten months to take care of that problem. Could have advertised myself for challenge matches with a MC team member, whatever. Money could have been raised on my own to ensure that I had enough to cover expenses.

That any or some of the players didn't even think that far, is on them, and them alone. I wouldn't have been waiting just on Mark to see what he came up with for me, I would have been going after what I needed myself. Not wait until the last minute and then say, sorry, not in my budget anymore.

Easy to say for someone not in their position, looking back in hindsight.

 

[CJ Wiley]

That's why so many of the greatest road players HATED tournaments

The players throughout history were being put in a compromising position.....let's just call that position "political," "butt kissing" is P.I.(politically incorrect). Even the legendary Willie Mosconi had to do things he should never of had to do, but did.

Because of the weak condition of professional pool it's usually been "political," and that's one thing that drove me away from the game. That's also why so many of the greatest road players HATED tournaments and put "big money" players in a position of higher respect. Vernon Elliot said it the funniest, he simply said "I'd rather suck a duck than play in a tournament" (or something very similar to that)

When I started playing big tournaments it was frowned on by my constituents, however, I had no choice - there was no more action available, my true playing speed was now public knowledge (not a good situation for a "Road Player") and I had to venture into the spotlight (also not good for a Road Player). I had won over a million dollars gambling by this time and was financially sound.....however, my income was drastically effected when I started beating the top tournament players (for the ca$h).

I don't think MATCHROOM cares who the players are this year, they just want to see the USA Team win......it's MUCH better for ratings and longevity of the event. They proved it to me when they ask me to be captain, I'm not exactly on top of their "favorite list".

'The Game is the Teacher'

37 pages?
Wow. It only takes a sentence or two.
By asking players to go around as a group and "compete" for a limited number of spots, you are not only asking them to "perform" you are making them suck up and kiss ass. (Yes i said it). Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
Sorry, but who in their right mind wants to continue to kiss ass after they weren't picked?
It's not rocket science.

 

[BRussell]

So you feel no remorse for attempting to ruin someone else's livelihood? Remember these guys are trying to be billiard professionals and you're trying to destroy their lives because they aren't participating in an exhibition. How pathetic it is of you to belittle people because they aren't participating in an exhibition they couldn't participate in in the first place.

Lol attempting to ruin someone's livelihood. Oscar and the others made this decision, Oscar went on ABR and announced this, because in his words, "I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about the details, but... who cares." Don't tell me Oscar wanted no one to talk about this. If you go to the media, you want people to talk about it. That's the point of going public.

 

[Timothy Rose]

Having spoken to MW last night about it all and having previously spoken to individuals very close to the coaching staff I can tell you they bailed. I can tell you they broke their word. In terms of disrupting what the coaching staff was trying to accomplish and have worked towards this past year, they have hurt the team. They have also, in all likelihood, hurt themselves.

One last thing: with friends like you, to perpetuate this thread, you are the ones dragging them through the mud. Have at it. In the immortal words of Arlo Guthrie, "That was horrible. If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud. I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes... I'm not proud... Or tired. So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part harmony and feeling. We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing..."

Kumbaya anyone?

Lou Figueroa
or Alice's Restaurant

if the rest of the team and especially the coaching staff feels "they hurt the team" This team has lost already before they have even started! coach made a major mistake in leadership already....my opinion.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Was Justin there? You are deflecting the question again! Here is Mark's take on the whole thing in case you didn't read it:

Mosconi Cup Unpicked Players Bail Out - Yesterday, 07:19 PM
I have read this whole thread and have a couple of things to say. I cannot get into any banter because I am gong to be driving out of town in an hour BUT -----

Here is my opinion.

I believe that the concept was to build a TEAM - and I think Mark Wilson was probably pretty clear on the team concept.

I also believe the MC 8 were all aware of the 'deal' and I am sure they originally agree to go over and show support.

I also believe there is a fair amount of value to the 3 players and to the US team - and to MatchRoom if that were to happen. The learning experience to the 3 players would be valuable in future years.

I think the US is just not grasping what a TEAM is - all this gibberish about you don't make the cut - you aren't on the team is the wrong type of thinking!

I am not calling the 3 players wrong - but I am telling them that I think they are being short sighted. This misses the whole point in team building.

Now to a few other items: CJ - I would offer to front the money to the traveling players IF they cannot wait for MatchRoom to reimburse them. All MatchRoom has to do is agree to send the checks to me.

To Kid - the thought that the 8 were going to have a 'shootout' is ridiculous and shows that you don't get 'team building' either.

Every person has to make up their mind for their own reasons. And they must also pay the future consequences. I also feel that if a man's word is no good, then he should expect to be scrutinized in the future.

Too much has been written on this whole topic. Too many are taking it way too seriously. But please also remember that this is a big production event. I am quite sure that MatchRoom and Mark Wilson are not too thrilled with this last minute change.

Will they go public - I don't think so - but I will bet you that it will be remembered.

I just think it is a shame that a lot of hard work and preparation went into this plan - and to have it tossed out the window seems a little disappointing.

Mark Griffin

So Mark Griffin has decided on a new meaning of team. Good to know. Maybe he should tell his view of what a team is to the NFL, NBA, NHL, and the MLB. They're all wrong on their concept of a team. And it was Mark Wilson who decided to name 8 potential players, not Matchroom.


I'm glad that the whole problem in this situation now lies on the definition of Team.

 

[jay helfert]

Honest question Jay: Do you really think it's a bad thing to talk about stuff like this? Isn't this what sports fans of "real" sports do all the time - second guess coaches and players, talk about teams, players, and coaches that they like and dislike?

No B, I don't. But this one kind of got beat to death. In the overall scheme of things it wasn't really that big a deal to anyone except a few people who have a need to castigate these three guys for their decision not to go.

 

[lfigueroa]

No Bill, I don't. But this one kind of got beat to death. In the overall scheme of things it wasn't really that big a deal to anyone except a few people who have a need to castigate these three guys for their decision not to go.

23 posts (fourth highest number of posts) in this thread, from, da-da: the Jay man, lol. But it's not a big deal to him to him. Please, nobody get him excited about anything or he'll burst a blood vessel.

Lou Figueroa

 

[CJ Wiley]

financially impossible unless a player had another business on the side.

You're right, if the United States was really involved the players wouldn't have to pay their own expenses up front. Mark G. said he would have loaned them the money (if MatchRoom backed it up), but he's "a day late and many dollars short".

Remember, the players have to pay their own expenses and won't get reimbursed for about 3 weeks (this was the situation when I was captain in 2012, probably still is). This would be financially impossible unless a player had another business on the side.

I'd be careful about throwing rocks at those that are struggling financially, they may pick one up and pull a "David and Goliath" move....and we all know how that ended.

Sacrificing time away from home and work to "represent my country" in an event that that vast,vast majority of my country doesn't even know exists? An event where Imwouldn't even be participating in? Yeah, real hard choice to make.

 

[jay helfert]

23 posts (fourth highest number of posts) in this thread, from, da-da: the Jay man, lol. But it's not a big deal to him to him. Please, nobody get him excited about anything or he'll burst a blood vessel.

Lou Figueroa

What is a big deal to me, Mr. Wise Guy is seeing people, INCLUDING YOU, demean three of the really good guys in our sport endlessly over something that will have absolutely zero effect on our Mosconi Cup team this year. FYI it will also have zero effect on these three guys regarding their future participation in the Cup or in any other events they care to play in. Mark would absolutely consider them again if their playing record warranted it.

You may have missed my post #11 in the more positive thread about our team (you probably couldn't be bothered with that thread), but I had a long phone conversation with Mark well before you spoke to him. When the question of the three players going or not going came up, he blew it off as NO BIG DEAL! He said that it will have no effect on the rest of the team or their chances in the Mosconi Cup.

Please carry on Lou. I know you have a lot more to get off your chest. I'm sorry you weren't chosen to be Captain this year, but maybe after reading this thread Matchroom will reach out to you next year.