Let's Talk About the "Southwest" Roll

HereWeGo

HereWeGo

♬·¯·♩¸¸♪·¯·♫♬·¯·♩
Silver Member
Hello all. I would like to hear your thoughts and maybe gain a little education on how this happens and why this seems to be a fairly common occurrence with some cues. I would like to be clear that this is not a complaint in any way shape or form, just an inquiry into process/production.

I recently acquired a beautiful Southwest cue. As usual the first thing I did was give it a quick roll to check it out. Right away I realized there was a lift on one side of the cue so I went straight to my local cue makers place to put it between centers and check it out.

Here is the interesting thing. When the cue is between centers there is a measurable and visual roll-out at the A-Joint. However, the Pin does not have any roll-out either between centers or when chucked up at different locations on the butt. The tip also shows no roll-out when the cue is together (well one shaft anyway, one shaft has a separate wobble). Here are the 2 things I know:

  1. Every lathe has it's own variation of run-out (I mean this to be a reference to the time of production not testing of centers).
  2. Southwest cues have a different taper. I would still expect a uniform gap between the joint and a flat surface regardless of taper. (Am I wrong thinking this?)

After discovering this I have talked to a lot of people including Southwest collectors and most of them recognize this as an acceptable and common occurrence as the cue is "straight" at the joint and tip.

So, what are your thoughts and opinions? Is the cue straight? Does this happen more than people realize? I appreciate all feedback. Thanks you for your time.
 
Last edited:
HereWeGo said:
Hello all. I would like to hear your thoughts and maybe gain a little education on how this happens and why this seems to be a fairly common occurrence with some cues. I would like to be clear that this is not a complaint in any way shape or form, just an inquiry into process/production.

I recently acquired a beautiful Southwest cue. As usual the first thing I did was give it a quick roll to check it out. Right away I realized there was a lift on one side of the cue so I went straight to my local cue makers place to put it between centers and check it out.

Here is the interesting thing. When the cue is between centers there is a measurable and visual roll-out at the A-Joint. However, the Pin does not have any roll-out either between centers or when chucked up at different locations on the butt. The tip also shows no roll-out when the cue is together (well one shaft anyway, one shaft has a separate wobble). Here are the 2 things I know:

  1. Every lathe has it's own variation of run-out.
  2. Southwest cues have a different taper. I would still expect a uniform gap between the joint and a flat surface regardless of taper. (Am I wrong thinking this?)

After discovering this I have talked to a lot of people including Southwest collectors and most of them recognize this as an acceptable and common occurrence as the cue is "straight" at the joint and tip.

So, what are your thoughts and opinions? Is the cue straight? Does this happen more than people realize? I appreciate all feedback. Thanks you for your time.
Click to expand...



It's warped........ trying to lessen the blow to your ego by calling it something else does not help............

It may acceptable in a $2500 south west cue that you waited 9 years for but is is not acceptable in any cues that I build...............for a lot less...............


It's just warped................ period..........

Kim
 
Last edited:
whammo57 said:
It's warped........ trying to lessen the blow to your ego by calling it something else does not help............

It may acceptable in a $2500 south west cue that you waited 9 years for but is is not acceptable in any cues that I build...............for a lot less...............


It's just warped................ period..........

Kim
Click to expand...

I think you're leaping to a conclusion that is not supported by the evidence presented - and in a manner that seems to be rather self-serving.

The symptoms he's described point more directly to a facing issue that any competent, experienced cuemaker should be able to greatly improve or perhaps even fix entirely.

TW

 
Hello, I appreciate your thoughts. Rest assure ego has nothing to do with this. The cue is 10 years old and was acquired on the secondary market through a trade. I am very confident I will not be hurt regardless of what happens from this point. Thanks again.

whammo57 said:
It's warped........ trying to lessen the blow to your ego by calling it something else does not help............

It may acceptable in a $2500 south west cue that you waited 9 years for but is is not acceptable in any cues that I build...............for a lot less...............


It's just warped................ period..........

Kim
Click to expand...
 
Lay a true straight-edge on the side of the cue and all will be revealed.

HTHs, KJ
 
I've seen this phenomena with my own eyes a few weeks back.
I rolled a SW on the table . The joint end appeared to be wobbling .
I joined the butt with the shaft . Rolled the cue on top of the rail.
Under the joint collar and over the joint collar .
The ferrule ROLLED dead freaking nuts straight . NO WOBBLE.

I studied the butt. It has three curves . The forearm has one curve . Another curve from the bottom to the middle of the handle . Middle of the handle to the bottom appeared to have another curve .

I equate rolling a SW butt on the table like rolling a coca-cola bottle .
Laugh all you want but I kinda look it that way .
The SW's joint collar size is really small by today's standard . Some .835".
The bottom of the forearm and handle is fat . So, any imperfection on the middle of the butt will exaggerate that wobble by the joint when rolled on the table . The joint "float" over the felt. It has air gap UNLIKE all linear tapers ( without a really funky compound ).

Rolling the shaft by itself might get you funny rolls too. I did not caliper the shaft . I have the DPK manual . It has his number for his shaft taper . It is some funky taper as well. It calls for every 1/8th of an inch.
Figure this out . It starts at .509 at the tip. At the 5" spot, it calls for 0.5057335 at 10" spot it calls for .525" with a radius of .1505".

I know of at least two more cue maker's cue that somehow has that same phenomenon . But, his joint collar is a little fatter .


I admire DPK and Jerry for their creativity and their search for a better taper ( to their opinions and standards ) than one linear taper or two or more linear tapers .

p.s.
There is no such thing as parabolic taper. It's a great buzz word but there is none in cues imo. Don't get Steve Klein going on that. :D
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I am happy that Joey can attest to what I have seen with this cue. I would like to clarify that no where in my OP did I state that I feel like the cue is "straight", I mentioned that others had accepted this. In my mind there is definitely something off but it will not keep me from playing with it or providing full disclosure when I end up selling it. Thanks again.
 
Thomas Wayne said:


I think you're leaping to a conclusion that is not supported by the evidence presented - and in a manner that seems to be rather self-serving.

The symptoms he's described point more directly to a facing issue that any competent, experienced cuemaker should be able to greatly improve or perhaps even fix entirely.

TW
Click to expand...

My statement was not meant to be self serving. I was only pointing out that some cue builders rely on their name to continue to sell cues that have tendency to warp.

I don't have a big name and I haven't been building cues for 20 years so I must be as sure as I can that every cue that goes out the door is not going to warp.

I have seen several posts here about SW cues warping. Call me silly but, why not try to reduce that problem with a different construction method?

Kim
 
Regardless of what type of taper southwest uses the cue should always spin true between centers if it straight. If its spinning true on the butt end and the joint end then the a-joint should also spin true. If it doesn't then it is warped.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
If you want to get picky and sometimes I do, turning btwn centers can give you a false impression.
If the pin is off at any point along it's 1-3/8" length to true center of the cue,
by the time you get to the 'A' jnt you'll see movement and could assume the cue was warped.
 
whammo57 said:
My statement was not meant to be self serving. I was only pointing out that some cue builders rely on their name to continue to sell cues that have tendency to warp.

[...]
Click to expand...

Okay, I'l bite... Help me understand how your following statement is NOT self-serving:

"It may acceptable in a $2500 south west cue that you waited 9 years for but is is not acceptable in any cues that I build...............for a lot less..............."

??????

TW
 
KJ Cues said:
If you want to get picky and sometimes I do, turning btwn centers can give you a false impression.
If the pin is off at any point along it's 1-3/8" length to true center of the cue,
by the time you get to the 'A' jnt you'll see movement and could assume the cue was warped.
Click to expand...

Bingo! We have a winner.

TW
 
Most people realize that all caps or a very large font is meant to signify yelling or give the impression that someone powerful and important is speaking................

Kim
 
KJ Cues said:
If you want to get picky and sometimes I do, turning btwn centers can give you a false impression.
If the pin is off at any point along it's 1-3/8" length to true center of the cue,
by the time you get to the 'A' jnt you'll see movement and could assume the cue was warped.
Click to expand...

What KJ said, on a lathe if the pin is off it can make the cue appear as if there is a warp, add to that a compound taper that "rolls funny" on a table and it can look like, again, its warped.

Either way to the consumer it doesn't look good in there eyes.
 
I think that if the question was asked about a lucasi the answers would be exponentially different. no science behind it would be explained, it would say, its warped.:thumbup:
am I wrong?? and I own a 40 year old cue that is dead straight, no roll in any shape or form, and its a production cue no less, I guess things arent made like they used to huh?;)
 
KJ Cues said:
If you want to get picky and sometimes I do, turning btwn centers can give you a false impression.
If the pin is off at any point along it's 1-3/8" length to true center of the cue,
by the time you get to the 'A' jnt you'll see movement and could assume the cue was warped.
Click to expand...

I can't understand this. Are you saying that the pin might be installed at an angle to the centerline, with the outboard end of the pin being on the centerline?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top