Shane and the Mosconi Cup [Puts on Fire Proof Suit]

BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First off, Shane Van Boening is one of my favorite players to watch. He's by far the best American pool player, and easily one of the best in the world. Yes, he's a favorite against the world in longer winner breaks races, but that's not what this is about.

This is about the Mosconi Cup and whether or not Shane is the best choice for America.

People can argue about variance, short races, alternate breaks, etc. But he's participated enough times that the rolls have evened out, and it's very clear that Shane just doesn't excel in this type of format. Why does he struggle when others (mainly from the Euro side, but some Americans as well) don't seem to have the same issue?

I don't know, and it doesn't really matter in the end. This isn't a knock on Shane as he is still a monster player, but the MC just isn't for him, and that's fine. He has the things that he's great at, but just because he's great at some things doesn't mean he has to be great at everything.

Finally for the variance yappers...

82-85 over 20 singles matches
75-97 over 20 doubles matches

40 matches is more than enough for variance to even out.
 
Comfortably beaten twice to lose the cup. You could say he had a bad day, but he's played nearly fifty matches and won less than half of them. How many clues do you need, SVB doesn't have the game for this and shouldn't be picked again.
 
It's definitely puzzling.

As you note, when he has a losing record over almost 350 racks played, the sample is huge and the rolls are 100% irrelevant.

Enjoyment
My best guess is that Shane doesn't enjoy the experience of being accountable to anyone else but himself. That may be why he thrives at Derby City, the US Open and, more recently, the World Pool Masters, but never looks comfortable at the World Cup of Pool or the Mosconi. This year, I think being named a captain made things even worse for him. Shane is no leader and when he's not leading by example at the table, asking him to lead the troops is a bad idea.

Modified Routine When not Playing a Match
I also wonder whether having to remain in the arena while he is not playing cramps his style. Most players have their own routines when it comes to down time and sweating matches rarely is part of those routines.

Loose Pockets and Slidy Rails
I also think the fact that the Mosconi is played on bucket tables with slidy rails has hurt Shane in three ways: 1) it reduces his breaking edge, 2) it reduces the edge he normally enjoys for being a phenomenally straight shooter and pocketer --- everyone can run out on such easy equipment, and 3) it exposes some of his limitations in kicking, for Shane has shown poor adaptability in his kicking game when he plays on very slidy tables.

Make no mistake about it, Shane is a fantastic short race player. The Derby City 9-ball was races to seven until 2012, and Shane won over a field of hundreds twice before they switched to longer races.

Needless to say, this is all speculation, but it's my sense of it.
 
BeiberLvr said:
...
82-85 over 20 singles matches
75-97 over 20 doubles matches

40 matches is more than enough for variance to even out.
Click to expand...

It doesn't affect your argument at all, but by my counts Shane's record is:

• Singles -- 9-12 in matches, 84-91 in games

• Doubles -- 9-10 in matches, 73-91 in games

[Edit: check your list for a 2-6 match you put in doubles when it should be in singles -- 2007 vs. Drago or 2010 vs. Appleton, perhaps]
 
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sjm said:
It's definitely puzzling.

As you note, when he has a losing record over almost 350 racks played, the sample is huge and the rolls are 100% irrelevant.

Enjoyment
My best guess is that Shane doesn't enjoy the experience of being accountable to anyone else but himself. That may be why he thrives at Derby City, the US Open and, more recently, the World Pool Masters, but never looks comfortable at the World Cup of Pool or the Mosconi. This year, I think being named a captain made things even worse for him. Shane is no leader and when he's not leading by example at the table, asking him to lead the troops is a bad idea.

Modified Routine When not Playing a Match
I also wonder whether having to remain in the arena while he is not playing cramps his style. Most players have their own routines when it comes to down time and sweating matches rarely is part of those routines.

Loose Pockets and Slidy Rails
I also think the fact that the Mosconi is played on bucket tables with slidy rails has hurt Shane in three ways: 1) it reduces his breaking edge, 2) it reduces the edge he normally enjoys for being a phenomenally straight shooter and pocketer --- everyone can run out on such easy equipment, and 3) it exposes some of his limitations in kicking, for Shane has shown poor adaptability in his kicking game when he plays on very slidy tables.

Make no mistake about it, Shane is a fantastic short race player. The Derby City 9-ball was races to seven until 2012, and Shane won over a field of hundreds twice before they switched to longer races.

Needless to say, this is all speculation, but it's my sense of it.
Click to expand...

totally agree!
 
sjm said:
It's definitely puzzling.

As you note, when he has a losing record over almost 350 racks played, the sample is huge and the rolls are 100% irrelevant.

Enjoyment
My best guess is that Shane doesn't enjoy the experience of being accountable to anyone else but himself. That may be why he thrives at Derby City, the US Open and, more recently, the World Pool Masters, but never looks comfortable at the World Cup of Pool or the Mosconi. This year, I think being named a captain made things even worse for him. Shane is no leader and when he's not leading by example at the table, asking him to lead the troops is a bad idea.

Modified Routine When not Playing a Match
I also wonder whether having to remain in the arena while he is not playing cramps his style. Most players have their own routines when it comes to down time and sweating matches rarely is part of those routines.

Loose Pockets and Slidy Rails
I also think the fact that the Mosconi is played on bucket tables with slidy rails has hurt Shane in three ways: 1) it reduces his breaking edge, 2) it reduces the edge he normally enjoys for being a phenomenally straight shooter and pocketer --- everyone can run out on such easy equipment, and 3) it exposes some of his limitations in kicking, for Shane has shown poor adaptability in his kicking game when he plays on very slidy tables.

Make no mistake about it, Shane is a fantastic short race player. The Derby City 9-ball was races to seven until 2012, and Shane won over a field of hundreds twice before they switched to longer races.

Needless to say, this is all speculation, but it's my sense of it.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily think it's the short races that are his kryptonite as much as the alternate break format. Both the DCC and WPM you mentioned were short races, but were winner breaks.

Also one thing I have to disagree with you on is the ease of the table. If everyone can run out on such an easy table, then so can Shane. Because you see, Shane is part of that "everyone."

As far as him not being cut out to be a leader. I'm on the fence there. Maybe it's not so cut and dry, but I thought he showed excellent leadership when giving Justin Hall little pep talks during his match against Nikos.

On a bit of a lighter note, every time I hear Nikos Ekonomopoulus' name, I always think of this scene.
 
AtLarge said:
It doesn't affect your argument at all, but by my counts Shane's record is:

• Singles -- 9-12 in matches, 84-91 in games

• Doubles -- 9-10 in matches, 73-91 in games
Click to expand...

I was using Wikipedia for 2007-2013, and then just went off of the matches I watched from this year.

It's possible I typed a score incorrectly in my spreadsheet.

See what happens when a non-stats master tries to do your job :cool:
 
AtLarge said:
It doesn't affect your argument at all, but by my counts Shane's record is:

• Singles -- 9-12 in matches, 84-91 in games

• Doubles -- 9-10 in matches, 73-91 in games
Click to expand...

All of the other points may be true, but by the data alone, it looks to me that SVB is about on par with the best Eurpoean players, while the rest of team America (including Shane's doubles partners) are a speed below.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, But SVB is the only player that ***earned*** his way on the team by winning the US open 9 ball right?
 
BeiberLvr said:
I was using Wikipedia for 2007-2013, and then just went off of the matches I watched from this year.

It's possible I typed a score incorrectly in my spreadsheet.

See what happens when a non-stats master tries to do your job :cool:
Click to expand...

See the edit I wrote in post #6.
 
BJTyler said:
All of the other points may be true, but by the data alone, it looks to me that SVB is about on par with the best Eurpoean players, while the rest of team America (including Shane's doubles partners) are a speed below.
Click to expand...

Darren has played 2009-2014

52-36 over 11 Singles
83-81 over 17 Doubles
22-12 vs Shane in 5 Singles

Niels has played 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007-09, and 2011-14

62-63 over 17 singles
140-92 over 28 doubles
Never played Shane in singles.
 
Blue Jam said:
Comfortably beaten twice to lose the cup. You could say he had a bad day, but he's played nearly fifty matches and won less than half of them. How many clues do you need, SVB doesn't have the game for this and shouldn't be picked again.
Click to expand...

LMAO!!!!! Youre an Idiot
 
BeiberLvr said:
First off, Shane Van Boening is one of my favorite players to watch. He's by far the best American pool player, and easily one of the best in the world. Yes, he's a favorite against the world in longer winner breaks races, but that's not what this is about.

This is about the Mosconi Cup and whether or not Shane is the best choice for America.

People can argue about variance, short races, alternate breaks, etc. But he's participated enough times that the rolls have evened out, and it's very clear that Shane just doesn't excel in this type of format. Why does he struggle when others (mainly from the Euro side, but some Americans as well) don't seem to have the same issue?

I don't know, and it doesn't really matter in the end. This isn't a knock on Shane as he is still a monster player, but the MC just isn't for him, and that's fine. He has the things that he's great at, but just because he's great at some things doesn't mean he has to be great at everything.

Finally for the variance yappers...

82-85 over 20 singles matches
75-97 over 20 doubles matches

40 matches is more than enough for variance to even out.
Click to expand...

+1 Brave post.
Don't worry you can make mincemeat of the silly variance yappers
But you need to defend against out of blue knives, fangs, claws , bombs so you need this suit

transformer-532_1502653a.jpg
 
BeiberLvr said:
First off, Shane Van Boening is one of my favorite players to watch. He's by far the best American pool player, and easily one of the best in the world. Yes, he's a favorite against the world in longer winner breaks races, but that's not what this is about.

This is about the Mosconi Cup and whether or not Shane is the best choice for America.

People can argue about variance, short races, alternate breaks, etc. But he's participated enough times that the rolls have evened out, and it's very clear that Shane just doesn't excel in this type of format. Why does he struggle when others (mainly from the Euro side, but some Americans as well) don't seem to have the same issue?

I don't know, and it doesn't really matter in the end. This isn't a knock on Shane as he is still a monster player, but the MC just isn't for him, and that's fine. He has the things that he's great at, but just because he's great at some things doesn't mean he has to be great at everything.

Finally for the variance yappers...

82-85 over 20 singles matches
75-97 over 20 doubles matches

40 matches is more than enough for variance to even out.
Click to expand...

Some players are slow starters. Players like Shane and Earl can catch a gear and run over anybody. This is their edge - they learn to channel the momentum to win. Alternate break and sloppy pockets take away a lot of Shane's otherwise massive advantage. This format, as you say, does not suit him in the least.
 
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IMO real pool should bo played one on one. That way it's just you and the table. Only you can win or lose. Only you are in control of the outcome. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
IMO real pool should bo played one on one. That way it's just you and the table. Only you can win or lose. Only you are in control of the outcome. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Did you miss this part...

Singles -- 9-12 in matches, 84-91 in games
 
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