Good post. Is that really true about Deuel's cue? Why didn't they just find somewhere in the UK to do it (and could nobody on the team just do it themselves)? Places that work on American cues are rare in the UK, but you can find them if you look, especially for something simple like re-tipping.
Mosconi Cup: Did the Referee make and error ?
- Thread starter stephen_joyce
- Start date
Good post. Is that really true about Deuel's cue? Why didn't they just find somewhere in the UK to do it (and could nobody on the team just do it themselves)? Places that work on American cues are rare in the UK, but you can find them if you look, especially for something simple like re-tipping.
No kidding, I can't believe that. If I was traveling for a pretty major event like this I would probably have at least two backups. 3 is 2, 2 is 1, and 1 is none. I can't image a good reason not to.
There must be something else to that...because I can't image they couldn't find a decent playing cue for him to use, he must have preferred using his break instead of another playing cue for some reason.
The ump is supposed to be there to watch the player touch home plate. If the ump doesn't catch it, then it's the umps fault.
Putting the game under protest is another question entirely. The issue is what the ump/ref is supposed to do. In the case of your baseball analogy, the ump's job is to make sure the batter touches home plate. If he doesn't, then it shouldn't count as a run.
BTW, there was an instance about a decade ago when Robin Ventura hit a walkoff grand slam during the playoffs (I believe he was playing for the Mets). He was mobbed right after he rounded first and never made his way back home. It was never officially ruled a home run because he never actually crossed the plate, so his run was never scored. It was the correct ruling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_Single
If the touchdown happens when time expires, then this analogy isn't apt because the extra point becomes absolutely meaningless to the outcome of the game. If the winning team demands the extra point should be played, then it would be.
Last edited:
I'm sure this has been brought up elsewhere in this thread, but Nikos did the same thing when sinking the final 9 ball of the tournament. The only difference is that Nikos was aware of the rules (and/or more respectful of them) and had the presence of mind to pick up the cue before things got too close.
https://youtu.be/gpCplV1ylEc?t=35m44s
The same ref was right there to snatch the cue up if Nikos didn't do it himself.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
There is never a situation where the rules should be superseded by anything. It is "basic sportsmanship" to play within the rules.
The ref was clearly wrong for picking up a player's cue while the cueball was in motion.
How hard is it to let the cueball stop rolling/spinning before touching it or putting your cue on the table? The shot is not completed until the cueball stops.
ONB
True, especially if the match is refereed, but the most common uncalled -- and game-losing -- foul is touching the cue ball before it has stopped moving on the final shot at nine ball.
In a billiards/snooker book I have is a story about a legendary and feared snooker referee. In a match between Wally and Joe (I'll call them) the final frame came down to the final black. In this situation any score or foul ends the match, even if the person in the lead fouls and it puts him only a point behind with the black (7 points) remaining on the table.
Anyway, Joe makes the black on a wonderful shot and the referee announces "Frame and match..." at which point Joe grabs up the still slightly moving cue ball from the middle of the table, and the referee continues, "to Wally."
Perhaps Joe never again picked up a moving cue ball.
I've never said I'd have a problem with the strictest possible enforcement of the rules, but I am noting that in my vast observation, it has never been the case.
The intent to strictly enforce every single rule would, consequently, have to be discussed at length in the player meetings, because it would be inconsistent with what we've seen over the years.
Certainly it was a foul but if no1 on the U.S team brought it up then IMO it is a non-issue.Not saying I would or they should cry foul.I think I would let it go,we got smoked plain and simple...
I think to much is made of the crowd noise/behavior etc.These guys are pros.It seams to me that the Euros were more used to the game table then the U.S players.I don't know if the Euros maybe hit more on the game table while the U.S was in the practice room or they are more used to the (table) conditions or they just adjusted better.
I think we need to get our best players on the team..Johnny for 1..There are only so many world class players from the U.S. and most of the american players don't travel much internationally if at all.
**Maybe we can make it Europe vs North America?With Canada and Mexico on our side we could have Alex on our team!**
I think to much is made of the crowd noise/behavior etc.These guys are pros.It seams to me that the Euros were more used to the game table then the U.S players.I don't know if the Euros maybe hit more on the game table while the U.S was in the practice room or they are more used to the (table) conditions or they just adjusted better.
I think we need to get our best players on the team..Johnny for 1..There are only so many world class players from the U.S. and most of the american players don't travel much internationally if at all.
**Maybe we can make it Europe vs North America?With Canada and Mexico on our side we could have Alex on our team!**
The Americans should protest, I hear it's not to late.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
sjm,
You did make absolute statements in your post that I quoted. I merely responded to your absolutes, namely "never" and "must".
By the way, there is no such thing as "strict enforcement" of the rules, there is only enforcement or no enforcement. When people start accepting "gray" areas problems occur.
When gambling at 9 ball I will warn an opponent one time not to touch the cueball as it's moving after shooting in the 9. That's all that's ever been required.
ONB
In that case, pro pool lives in a world of non-enforcement, since some of the rules are nearly never called, whether a referee is present or not.
That's why I feel that a switch to a world of enforcement would be a sufficiently significant change to merit discussion prior to the onset of play.
I applaud you for bringing it to you gambling opponent's attention that you will enforce that letter of the law. That's shows you see the value added by doing so.
Haha...geeez , there are two of me
That's how I play...a warning.
If you let it slide....some time the cue-ball will get picked up when it
may have scratched.
Mika got the best of Shane in a move by grabbing the cue-ball when
it would've broken the 7/8 in Japan a while back. The foul should've
been loss of game if not match.
I would think that technically the shot is not complete until 5 seconds after the cueball stops.
Especially if the cue ball is on the brink of a pocket. I suppose the rules need more explicit instructions about when the brinked ball should be waited for.
I'm curious about your opinion on this Bob. Would you have called a foul on Neils, with the ball rolling harmlessly into the center of the table and the crowd cheering?