BCA Membership

[Mark Griffin]

Yes, I am referring to the BCA (Billiard Congress of America) not the BCAPL - which is a division of CSI. We are stil doing the event in July in Vegas.

It is still the best there is!!!

Markg

Hey Mark,

I joined a BCA league this session specifically because I LOVED your event in Vegas in years past. I assume when you say BCA you are not talking about the BCAPL? I very much like this pool league, particularly the championships in Vegas!

KMRUNOUT

 

[Paul Schofield]

Not going to read the garbage... The BCA unhooked the ropes and let pool and billiards float out into oblivion.... Pro and Amateur alike... They chased the tradeshow dollars and they need to be forever stuck there... As a tradeshow entity...

Mark I would have preferred you had not sent you money in .......

Far too much anger in the above post. MG did the right thing in renewing his organization's membership. I will remind you that the state of our industry is reflected in the state of the BCA.

 

[Paul Schofield]

One of the reasons for making a post is to cause discussion.

I think I can 'fix' todays problems.

Mark Griffin

What are today's problems? How would you fix them?

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

One of the reasons for making a post is to cause discussion. I think the BCA is a topic that should be discussed. There are many different opinions.

Most will agree that the pool industry is not very healthy.
Many will agree that the BCA is not very active in pool events.

BUT - what should be their role? Should they 'do' tournaments? Does the NFL 'do' football games?

I believe the US needs organization - (the BCA is the agent for the WPA) - I don't agree on forming NEW organizations since that has never worked. I also don't think it is all about 'points events' - and even if it was, who is going to fund them?

Look at the bigger picture and look towards the future.

I think I can 'fix' todays problems. and I think that is better than starting over.

Mark Griffin

The BCA should either ‘do tournaments’ and or assist in the ‘doing of tournaments’ - BOTH alongside recognised Pool Promoters such as CSI.

EXAMPLE: The Euro Tour - Run by the EPBF, ALL players MUST be members of the EPBF through membership via their country, otherwise they CAN NOT compete. This with a straight forward path to clear objectives, benefits and outcomes to ALL participating members. All of which are measurable over time.

USA Pool - Fundamentally NEEDS to recognise all its 50 states through ‘The Organisation’. Each state should ‘do tournaments’ that are consistent with other states and the organisation, with a clear objective path of progression towards national tournaments / events. All of which should lead to clear goals, objectives. Once this is in place, USA will have something tangible to measure itself against.

All of which isn’t easy but worth it in the long run. :thumbup:

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

The BCA is us. The BCA is where our entire industry converges. The state of the industry is the state of the BCA and vice versa. If anyone thinks the BCA should be doing something, then they should join. Get involved. Sell their ideas. Volunteer. Dissatisfaction with our trade organization's decisions and actions is never a reason to give up on "us".

Within a productive organisation, ideas should not need to be sold. The right structure of personnel should be on hand to embrace ideas
But I agree, those who are interested should get involved! :thumbup:

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

Not going to read the garbage... The BCA unhooked the ropes and let pool and billiards float out into oblivion.... Pro and Amateur alike... They chased the tradeshow dollars and they need to be forever stuck there... As a tradeshow entity...

Mark I would have preferred you had not sent you money in and had CSI hold the line and setup a North American Points system.... You know my thoughts on the WPA and their focus on Europe and Asia... Cut ties and rebuild here... We owned pool for decades until the rudder was cast away by the BCA.. It's not been lost.. it's only been unmanned... It made sense to pool together when the Olympics were supposedly in reach but now there is no rhyme or reason to dance to the WPA drummers knowing our nextshot is a decade away... Time to figure out the way forward...

Not too sure that the WPA has a focus (thoughts) on Europe or Asia? It may just be a focus on developing continents rather than a conscience decision of thought. If USA were to develop (into the power-house it should be) then you may see WPA taking a more invested interest? Possibly
You are right about the whole Olympic thing - Time to move on and forward :thumbup:

 

[FranCrimi]

I'll keep saying this for as long as I have to: The U.S. is not set up to handle big money events as other continents are. We don't get hundreds of thousands from our government to add to pool tournaments.

The WPA is definitely a necessary organization ---- not just in case that some day we may get into the Olympics, but because they are there to assure fairness in international events.

If you want to see just how biased and unfair things can get, then get rid of the WPA. You have no idea how many battles they fight on behalf of all the players in the world. I should know, because I served on their board of directors for 4 years.

The US has to regroup and keep it small because that's all they can afford, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The BCA board of directors changes frequently, and their flip-flopping as to whether or not they should be supporting pro pool is a reflection of those constantly changing regimes with differing viewpoints. They need to develop a long-range plan and to stop sending mixed signals.

The one thing they have been consistent in is paying the WPA dues every year in order for North American players to participate in big international events. They get nothing in return for that. Zilch, zero, nada. Sending players to participate overseas does not help them sell goods in the United States.

However, if the players can form an alliance with the BCA by working together to grow the sport, for example: Going out to shops and making appearances at their members businesses ---- we may be able to have a situation that starts to benefit all.

But concessions must be made on both sides. Maybe the BCA can help players find sponsorship situations that will benefit both sides.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'll keep saying this for as long as I have to: The U.S. is not set up to handle big money events as other continents are. We don't get hundreds of thousands from our government to add to pool tournaments.

The WPA is definitely a necessary organization ---- not just in case that some day we may get into the Olympics, but because they are there to assure fairness in international events.

If you want to see just how biased and unfair things can get, then get rid of the WPA. You have no idea how many battles they fight on behalf of all the players in the world. I should know, because I served on their board of directors for 4 years.

The US has to regroup and keep it small because that's all they can afford, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The BCA board of directors changes frequently, and their flip-flopping as to whether or not they should be supporting pro pool is a reflection of those constantly changing regimes with differing viewpoints. They need to develop a long-range plan and to stop sending mixed signals.

The one thing they have been consistent in is paying the WPA dues every year in order for North American players to participate in big international events. They get nothing in return for that. Zilch, zero, nada. Sending players to participate overseas does not help them sell goods in the United States.

However, if the players can form an alliance with the BCA by working together to grow the sport, for example: Going out to shops and making appearances at their members businesses ---- we may be able to have a situation that starts to benefit all.

But concessions must be made on both sides. Maybe the BCA can help players find sponsorship situations that will benefit both sides.

I very much like what you say that I have put in bold form.

But...to do that the players need to form in some manner as the pro golfers formed the PGA long ago. They did that to promote themselves at that time & to build for the future.

Sponsorship is a huge part of a solution & I would also think is image & giving back to the community. Charitable contributions as the PGA does is a good starting point as would be a good dress code that is not too restrictive. PGA members work within a dress code & some have even made how they dress their 'trademark'.

All of My Best Wishes to You,
Rick

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

History[edit]
The origins of the BCA began with the National Billiard Association of America (NBAA), founded July 25, 1921. The organization rapidly became the de facto governing body of the sport in the United States, with 35,000 members by 1928

Headquartered in Chicago, Illinois, and calling itself "the Governing Body of Billiards", the BAA produced a concise, portable, inexpensive rulebook of carom and pocket billiards games, that was to serve as the model for future BCA releases.

[8] The BAA in turn became the BCA, 1947–1948.
It was established under this name in 1948[2] as a non-profit trade organization[3] in order to promote the sport and organize its players via tournaments at various levels

Like any business, sometimes you have to ''look back'' to see what got you ''here''. Many business's lose their way, McDonalds is now simplifying their menus. There's some good thoughts above on how to ''Govern''. But don't micro manage, that's for your Room Members. Give your Room Members something with value and they'll give back to corporate with their players purchasing billiard products.

Thanks for the informed historical journey.
This makes sense.
Looking back to the beginning is ALWAYS a great place to start a journey :thumbup:

 

[genomachino]

i couldn't agree more........

I'm less convinced that the BCA has turned the corner here, but I'll remain hopeful. It's no secret that Mark Griffin's opinion has, and always will, carry great weight with me.

Marks integrity and knowledge is unsurpassed.

Sharing his knowledge to make things better just makes sense.

Good to hear and good luck to everyone.........my 2 cents worth.....but a heavy 2 cents........

 

[Allen Brown]

Mark, the updated website looks great. Keep up the excellent work.

 

[Paul Schofield]

So what does the BCA need to do? IMO, It needs to secure a steady climbing income right now. Without it, the Billiard Congress of America will cease to exist. I will say it again: "If everyone wonders what happened to the BCA, they need to look no further than the state of the entire industry in this country."

 

[SouthernDraw]

Truly a Hurdle for North American Professional Pool

OK. Some of my thoughts...

The BCA is The governing body of cue sports in North America, as it pertains to the WPA or IOC recognized body. It is also a trade organization.

About Mark's original post...

As best that my memory recalls...The voting body of the BCA (with a majority of manufacturing members present) chose to separate the BCA into groups, while maintaining all control in the voting process. Manufacturing members control each voting outcome. Please correct me, if my memory is wrong. Individual members and room owners are now just along for the ride. They have limited membership!

I hated this for a long time until I saw the full picture and understand that it is best for all parties...

They are in fact a Trade Organization. They are not a sports league (like the NFL). Just like the NFL would never allow Russell, Nike, ESPN, etc. to make decisions that would only serve their own interests over that of the teams, players or the NFL as an entity. Why would we want the sponsors to control the interest of our great sport only to use it for their greedy purposes? Don't misunderstand me, I don't think that they (BCA) are evil. But, "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Why would industry control the sport? They should be your customer (aka sponsorship)!

---All corporations will use all of their efforts to increase their profitability. And they should. They owe it to their shareholders and they owe it to their workers. So at some point, the sport will be second in their endeavor. Their bottom line will always be first.

However, we are still left with the BCA being the governing body in N. America. This is a travesty. Again, they have their own interests to attend to. They don't have the enduring interest to maintain the energy to create a prosperous and thriving pro pool scene. They are, in fact, concentrating on making their business prosperous and thriving, as they should.

I believe that Fran has good ideas here. I also don't believe that the WPA is necessarily the answer. The IOC has cut back many sports recently and I don't EVER expect pool to be in the Olympics. But even this is not the first issue that needs to be addressed. More importantly, Fran is correct that a healthy relationship needs to be between the BCA and a new governing body for Professional Pool. Individual corporations in billiards need to be convinced that a strong professional pool scene is vital to their own best interest. Just as they are vital to the best interests of professional pool.

For a long time, the BCA wants its' cake and to eat it too! They should choose one or the other!

Mark, I will say this. The world is made molded by the people who make things happen. And not by the people giving you every excuse why things can't happen. I don't believe any of us have the total solution here. But the solution doesn't have to be perfect, it never is. It just takes someone with energy to make it happen.

---Additional thoughts...

The BCA is us. The BCA is where our entire industry converges. The state of the industry is the state of the BCA and vice versa. If anyone thinks the BCA should be doing something, then they should join. Get involved. Sell their ideas. Volunteer. Dissatisfaction with our trade organization's decisions and actions is never a reason to give up on "us".

Paul

Thanks for taking part in this discussion Paul.

I couldn't ask for a post that could capture my sentiments better than this one. As you could guess from my posts above, I see myself as a customer of the BCA voting membership and board members. But the BCA would try to convince me that I should "volunteer" in order to sell the BCA my ideas. If you are able to get customers to "volunteer" for you, all the more power to you. Again, the BCA wants it cake and to eat it too. Why not step back and invest in an independent organization to represent North American professional pool? It would take less energy and headaches to simply invest money and produce better results in the long run for the sport for all parties.

I don't dislike the BCA, but I do understand its' role. As I understand my role as a consumer. The BCA chose this path a long time ago.

 

[Island Drive]

I don't dislike the BCA, but I do understand its' role. As I understand my role as a consumer. The BCA chose this path a long time ago.

The BCA's path is chosen by board members. The BCA's actions over the past 30 years in office are nearly identical to it's American pro players, what's in in for ME. The board changes with the richer board members at times seemingly in control, but the members band together to get or give what suits themselves best. The broad picture needs to be applied to room members, and giving em something of value along with BCA membership to improve their business. When the BCA moved to CO from IA, we obviously knew how to milk the cows better in CO than IA, as NOW the BCA has millions less in the bank, but someone was able to keep flying their plane and get another new 50K auto.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

For what's it worth.
I am willing and able to work with ALL parties, individuals, Promoters, Industry, Pool Players WHOEVER is involved to make a better workable environment for POOL AT ALL LEVELS to thrive better in the USA...

I am from Europe, I am within the industry and I want a better pool scene in the USA as I believe it to be the flagship of Pool worldwide!

Unfortunately the situation can not be resolved through 'I' if it could 'I' would have done something a long time ago... THIS REQUIRES 'WE' :thumbup:

JC

 

[Island Drive]

For what's it worth.
I am willing and able to work with ALL parties, individuals, Promoters, Industry, Pool Players WHOEVER is involved to make a better workable environment for POOL AT ALL LEVELS to thrive better in the USA...

I am from Europe, I am within the industry and I want a better pool scene in the USA as I believe it to be the flagship of Pool worldwide!

Unfortunately the situation can not be resolved through 'I' if it could 'I' would have done something a long time ago... THIS REQUIRES 'WE' :thumbup:

JC

Good luck, remember the we is an upside down ME over here....FWIW ....filtering thru that demographic is like finding the right cat' and expecting to train it ''to act like a dog.''

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

Good luck, remember the we is an upside down ME over here....FWIW ....filtering thru that demographic is like finding the right cat' and expecting to train it ''to act like a dog.''

That's funny. I've never thought of it that way! :thumbup:

 

[Paul Schofield]

Paul

Thanks for taking part in this discussion Paul.

I couldn't ask for a post that could capture my sentiments better than this one. As you could guess from my posts above, I see myself as a customer of the BCA voting membership and board members. But the BCA would try to convince me that I should "volunteer" in order to sell the BCA my ideas. If you are able to get customers to "volunteer" for you, all the more power to you. Again, the BCA wants it cake and to eat it too. Why not step back and invest in an independent organization to represent North American professional pool? It would take less energy and headaches to simply invest money and produce better results in the long run for the sport for all parties.

I don't dislike the BCA, but I do understand its' role. As I understand my role as a consumer. The BCA chose this path a long time ago.

I think my comments are misunderstood. When I say "volunteer", I am referring to the committee members that donate their time. When I say "sell", I really mean "lobby". The BCA is a political organization that operates by vote. Committee members are elected and directives are instituted by vote. To move an idea forward, it requires much work and "salesmanship" within the BCA.

 

[liakos]

I don't mean any disrespect,,, but this thread is very annoying I own a automotive repair shop, this thread sounds like this,,,,, a vehicle comes in with a severe engine noise and I notice that the windshield is cracked. So I say, ok, start with replacing the windshield and see what that does!

Everyone is trying to figure out how to fix pool, well, before you start, is it reasonable to say that maybe the players themselves can do something?

The players need to start promoting themselves. The players need to get a fan base for themselves. The players need to draw the crowd. The players need to support the game!!!

You know what the players do???? They go tournaments, mostly on other people's money, play, and go back home! Very few are marketing themselves and the game! They need to get out there, in the pool halls on off nights and mix and mingle with all the customers! Not trying to rob a C player out of 200 for a game the C player can't refuse!

I have played in many different pool halls and many times I have worked my way in to a table with a bunch of people who can't hold the stick right, I get them started within a few minutes and there off and smashing the balls around! If I've gone to 100 people, 95 of them thanked me,,, and a few asked for lessons! I'm a good B player and to those people, I look like efren, but the point is I brought people into the game!

Can you imagine if the pros did that?? Especially the ones with a stroke,,,, make the cue run around the table and you see there eyes wide open! Before you fix the BCA and CSI and all that,,,,, fix the problem. THE POOL PLAYERS!!!
(Not all, just most) Our American poster boy and the likes are not helping, if anything, they are hurting what most of us want out of pool!

Again, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone! I applaud all endeavors trying to promote the game! But it's only gonna go as far as the players want it to.

My opinion,,,,, from what I see, don't look for much of a change, no matter what BCA and CSI and APA and whoever else there is!

Good luck to all

 

[336Robin]

A big job

As many may know, I have become disenchanted in the BCA (Billiard Congress of America) over the last few years. So much that not too long ago, I mentioned in a post that I would not be renewing our (CSI's) membership in the BCA.

I just had a couple conversations with them in the last week or so. In fact, we had some interesting talks about the future of pool in the US. I think they may finally be 'seeing the light' (according to my standards - lol) - and I am sending in my membership today.

Probably the most visible example of their presence is the stand the BCA (with the WPA) took against Dragon Promotions and the Women's event now going on in NYC.

Now lets see what (if anything ) they can do on the 14.1 event. (Really - the 73rd event)?????

I have always believed in the potential of the WPA/BCA but somehow I feel they lost the direction. I think they might be coming around - and for that, I am going to continue my support.

Many people misunderstand the role of the BCA - I think I understand it but I also think they can be a much bigger and better influence in pool in the US.

Mark Griffin



m

Mark,

I for one hope they realize that they cast away the rudder and we went adrift and downhill. We all know that you had the best chance of anyone to walk right past them with a new organization.....I wouldn't have wanted to do it, what a job it could be.

Perhaps being a industry leader comes with more responsibility than just housing the rules. I wish them well. I've promised my support for BEF at this point. If they contact me and ask I will support them but I want to hear what's on their minds. Perhaps they should say something. I'm sure they only want to get so involved but how involved is what I would like to know.

Wouldn't it be nice if they gave us all something to support.